2021 In review - Was It Good For You?

0:02 Welcome back to another episode of the MRM Podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we discuss business, life, and legacy. It's business time. Christopher, how are you doing? I'm feeling good today. I'm wearing my hat. I flipped the bill up. Oh, yeah. It's just a thing I do. Yeah. When I see it, and this is not derogatory, my friend. Okay. I'm not putting you down. But the first thing I think of is Lance Armstrong on mile 400 or something. I don't even know how long they've raced. It's that look. It's the biker. It's the person on a really long ass ride without a helmet. Because helmets are dorky looking, right?

0:44 But that hat. It's like a biking hat. Only dum-dums ride a bike without a helmet. I know, but it just doesn't fit the cool bit at all. It is sort of that cycling hat look. And I don't know why I think it's fun or why I like it. But you like it. But it's just what I do. So I get a little embarrassed around all of my... restoration buddies that have the flat bill, the whatever. It's not culturally appropriate by flipping the bill up, but it's just what I am. It's wild and wacky. And so I feel good in my skin at the moment. I think that's a positive way to leave it. Tune into our YouTube channel to see what Nordic looks like with his hat bill up and his beard out. Hopefully we'll do a lot more next year.

1:25 But okay, dude, 2021 in the rear view mirror, right? This will be the last show. that we throw up here in the next week or so. For 2021, we've started recording our sessions for next year. We really plan to hit the ground running. We're really excited about that. But let's let's just do an honest assessment of this last year. Kind of the good, the bad, the things we hit the mark on, the things where it was close, maybe. And then if we feel so inclined, do a little bit of excitement forecasting. What do you think? Yeah, no, I like it. I like it. Yeah. I mean, where I'm at in my head at the moment is just thinking about how much our perspective has changed in just the last eight, nine months.

2:12 Yeah. You know, just... Oh, man. Yeah. The people that we've met, the clients that we worked with, I think even just starting this podcast was a really transformative move for us. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it's forced us to... Well, it's forced us to just... Out of our comfort zone in a lot of ways. I mean, this is really fun for you and I. I think it's been fun from day one. But it's also been scary because it's like, okay, how much do we want to share? Are there things we shouldn't say? Yeah. Because they'll rub people the wrong way. Or it might alienate potential clients. Like they may hear us... voicing an opinion or a perspective on something like, oh, I don't want to work for those guys.

2:54 So there's been that figuring out what does it mean to be authentic versus being reckless? Because while I'm a huge believer in honesty and transparency, I also realize sometimes we can say things out of a sense of ego to... We see a lot of that online. Yeah. People just kind of wearing their emotions on their sleeve or complaining out loud or whatever. And it's like, you know what? Not everybody needs to know every opinion you hold. Yeah. You know what I mean? Is there real value in some of this honesty or transparency? Yeah. So we've wrestled with that a little bit. I feel pretty good about... Anyway, that's been a growing edge for us.

3:36 We're trying to figure that out. In the early days, the first... You and I probably threw out 10 episodes before we published. Maybe more. Maybe more. And we had how many takes in the early days. Now we're down to pretty much one take. Yeah, we want to be professional. I want to be clear that we don't want to waste the attention of folks. We understand that all of you as business leaders, as business owners are busy. Bandwidth is a struggle. And we do not take that lightly. We don't want to step on that. We don't want to ignore the validity or the weight of that. And so we don't want opinions and perspectives to just be more crap.

4:18 Yeah. We want it to be valuable. But at the same time, we kind of made a commitment that we wanted to be willing to work through the ideas and the concepts openly. Yeah. Like these aren't necessarily everything is like, it's totally vetted and figured out. There's an element of you and I being leaders in our own spheres and just wanting to say, This is what it looks like. And sometimes it's rad. And a lot of times it just kind of sucks or it's broken or it doesn't go the way you want. And as Chris would say, it's not even a but. And there's these really unique layers of experience that we get that actually keep you motivated even when things aren't necessarily going the way you want.

5:00 So we wanted to stay in that place and capture a lot of that. You know what's been interesting to me is when I look back over our catalog of episodes so far, and we look at how many plays, how many downloads or plays or whatever you want to call it, each episode has had. Some of our tactical episodes, like our episode with Jerry, Edel, really good. So if you're listening to this and you didn't pick up that episode, it's great. Jerry talks about the changing landscape of how we build relationships with agents in particular, which is... that ground has shifted from the old smiles and candy thing, blah, blah, blah. So there was a lot of interest. In fact, last time I checked, it was our number one episode that most listened to or whatever. It was great.

5:41 And the episodes that people have most texted you and I about... Yeah. We've gotten texts from past clients and industry relationships and people, direct messages on LinkedIn and so forth. have been the ones that you and I were most scared to release. Totally. Because they felt so gut level, transparent, like we were just rolling over like a dog, just showing our belly. Yeah. And those seem to be the ones that have elicited reactions. People have felt something. And I've talked about this a lot. There's something inside all of us that feels alone in certain things. And we were just chatting about this before the show.

6:24 Especially as a leader, I forget who first said this to me, but it's so universal. We've all heard it, right? It's lonely at the top. Yeah. Yes. And there's so many reasons for that. Of course, there's lots of things we can do to prevent that. Oh, of course, of course. However... But I think there's just this thing, and I don't know that leaders ever fully get away from it, is there's just things, there's choices we make as leaders that are really hard where no one's happy with us. Yeah. Sometimes you're choosing the lesser of two evils, as you said earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's tension in the role where we feel inadequate to the task sometimes.

7:05 We don't feel safe to really disclose that to anybody. We just carry that. Yeah. We carry that feeling of inadequacy as we're pushing through something. We don't know if we have what it takes for. And it's just the grit and determination of, I think I can figure this out. I need to figure this out. That's a thing that's not sexy to talk about, but all of us feel. Yeah. At some point, right? Yeah. I almost feel like you did a really great job of summarizing the majority of 2021 from the perspective of... It's been so interesting to have these opportunities to work, let's say with our client base or with just some of the relationships in our sphere of influence and have really positive impact being their wingman almost.

7:50 In fact, that was a name that you and I wrestled with a little bit potentially for this show was the wingman. The idea there is that we are reminding people they're not alone and in conjunction with the programmatic ways that we support them and process, procedure, all that stuff. it's really been this friendship of, hey, you're not alone. Like you have a peer, you have a friend that has your best interest in mind. But then again, like as we're offering that, right, as part of our relationship value, then you and I are ultimately in this place as we grow these pieces of our business where we're in the same shoes that our clients are. where they're often getting ready to move the needle on growth or size or market share, all these different things.

8:33 And so they're certainly being challenged and working in new areas that intimidate and make them feel less capable, all those things. And then the funny thing is, is almost all year, we paralleled them in our own journey. Yeah. And you and I were consistently on these outer edges of... of our existing knowledge base, our existing experience, right? Because we're doing things differently than we've spent the vast majority of our professional careers doing. And so, gosh, man, if ever there was a year where I really understood the position or the plight of our clients, it's, man, this year was one for me. I just was like the whole time, like, oh my gosh, I totally get what you mean. Yeah.

9:14 I know what you're talking about. We see it. there's a lot of pressure to pose, you know, to come across a certain way. And I think I've talked about this a lot and maybe it's because I'm kind of a city kid that came into the restoration industry. I'm kind of, I'm kind of this, even when I first came in and was working with you at the company that we helped build, like, I didn't really look the part. I'm a townie. I did work construction. And boy, do I have some funny stories from when I worked in construction in high school. Oh my gosh. The day that I... One of my first days on a job site, I had a spotting scope and we were doing some excavation and I didn't know my...

9:56 ass from a hole in the ground. But I was learning how to give these readings from the spotting scope to the guy who had the excavator or whatever. And I had to take a leak. And so I went into the house and I had this thing on my belt loop while I undid my belt loop to take a leak. And that spot, this brass spotting scope, probably inherited it from his grandfather, slipped off my belt into the toilet as I was peeing. I didn't make a career out of construction. Yeah, that's pretty promising. That guy really enjoyed the fact that he hired you. Right. I was in choir in high school. Anyway, I... So like I have been somewhat of an unconventional fit in the industry, but where was I going with that? I'm not 100%. I was following your journey.

10:37 I just... I'm not sure where... Was that a humility curiosity thing or what was that? I don't know what kind of pose that was, but... And there is 2021 for you guys. Yeah. That has felt... In brutal honesty, guys, there's been so much traction in so many areas. Yeah, we just... Challenged it. Yeah, where I was going with that, man, is I think people can relate to what I'm saying. Maybe they're not this city kid with the... Whatever. Whatever. But as we've been working with clients, this has just been a recurring theme. There's just a lot of pressure that I think leaders feel. And within the construction sector, there's this other kind of pressure too.

11:22 There's a macho kind of drumbeat to the industry of... this pressure to fake it until you make it. There's a pressure to appear competent and in control and to know what to do. I think other industries are a little bit ahead of us in terms of self-awareness and vulnerability in some of these topics that... are getting talked about a lot more like in tech. Tech always seems to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of workplace culture and stuff like that. And so I think our industry still fights that macho, get shit done, always have to be strong and have it together.

12:05 You know what I mean? No, I do. The interesting thing is, and I don't know if folks have picked up on this this year or not, but you and I are different people. We have core things about our friendship, our relationship as leaders and as business partners that we trust. These core pillars... we're on the same page. And because we have trust in those, we give each other the freedom to just be who we are in these other arenas, right? Yeah. And there is part of me that loved, loves that mochizmo. I am addicted to it in some ways because I have a military background and I was looking... in the companies that we've worked with and for, I wanted to recreate that bravado, that machismo, that elitism in the healthiest way possible.

12:54 Not the kind that's super exclusive and puts people down. Although I didn't always do all those things. Kick ass and take. names. Dude, I love that. Kickface. Right? Kickface. Meltfaces. I really do love that. And it's a component about our industry that I am somewhat addicted to. However, in conjunction with that, I experienced, you experienced both us as leaders failing big time because we got swept up into that and allowed it to taint what the bigger vision was or the why behind what we were trying to accomplish as leaders. And then there was times where we really, we balanced like being authentic inside that environment.

13:38 Like, can you get Can you honor? Can you enjoy? Can you create the grit that's asked of us in an environment like that? But still do it in such a way where people get to see real. They get to be honest about... There's times when you do it well, and there's times you do it like crap. And there's times where I've got all the energy in the world to do this. And I've got times where I just am totally faking it. Because I don't have the energy or the bandwidth to do these things that we're being asked to do well. So it's like, yes, I agree with you. I think our industry has that. I'm kind of addicted to it. But I also know and have seen, and you and I have had many, many conversations about, that can become really freaking toxic as well.

14:23 If we don't do this weird balancing of, yes, it is this, which is great because it fuels you sometimes when you can't fuel yourself. Right. Yeah. That kind of comes back to those three words I mentioned, head, heart, and boots. Dude. Right? Head, heart, and boots. It's all of it. And I think it's just... One of the things we've been talking a lot about this whole year, really, you and I have been talking about it for a long time, but it's the and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the ands, right? I was drawn to that esprit de corps that I think you really brought to the team. The kick ass and take names. Be the best. Let's be the leading company in our market. I am. I'm a competitive person.

15:03 I have a fiery spirit like you in that there's always this internal gear that's cranking. Yeah. And I think you and I have seen and been a part of, sadly, the toxic residue of when it's all that. Yeah. When... We were talking to Clint yesterday. So spoiler alert. Shortly after you hear this, one of our next podcasts of the new year is going to be with Clint Pulver. Feel free to Google him. An amazing... guest, different angle than some of the guests we've had. But he's just got this pulse on culture and sort of the changing landscape of leadership and how it has to move from this command and control, old school leadership framework to to a mentorship model.

15:57 And I'm just so struck by what he said about mentorship. He said, a mentor can only play that role when a mentee has let them into their heart. I was like, whoa. Yeah. Like there's a touchy feely thing for... But it feels true, right? It's like, you really can't lead without the permission of the people you're leading. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can have a title of general manager. You can have the title of owner. But you... And it goes to what we've said before. It's like as a leader, sometimes you think you have your team's buy-in. Yeah. Like you think they're following you when they're really obeying. Yeah. When they're really complying.

16:38 Yeah. Which are two wildly different scenarios. Yeah. Yeah. And you and I have had the chance to see inside and behind some really, really cool companies, both during our career and we've been a part of some of them directly. And then we've gotten to meet some leaders here that there's some magic happening underneath the skin. And that magic is they've actually gotten permission. Yeah. They're really leading people actually are bought in and we've seen just how different that feels. Yeah. Yeah. And we've also seen the fact that they often aren't struggling quite as much as everybody else to get people. It's true. They're not. Yeah. They're not turning people over.

17:19 Shock, shock. And their employees are bringing... We were just having a conversation with one of these leaders today. They're like, yeah, we don't really have a labor problem. Yeah. In fact, we just hired two more people, friends of people that work in the business. Yeah. And like when we were talking to Clint, Clint said, I just asked these employees of all these different companies, what's it like to work here? Yeah. And they told me the truth. Our employees, when their friends ask what it's like to work there, they tell them the truth. If your employees aren't recruiting other employees in, it's probably something to think about. Gosh, that's huge. You're going into it. Well, I know I'm going off.

18:01 But these are some of these realities. So you and I have been wrestling with, okay, what is this podcast about? It's like the leadership thing is something you and I are fascinated with, but I hate the word because the word is so John Maxwell. John Maxwell is amazing. But it's, I think, where our culture is going and where I just feel like my brain is always going is you can have all the right external behaviors. But as leaders, if we haven't wrestled with ourselves and what's happening inside and how we're leading ourselves, just doing certain behaviors or having certain disciplines externally, that's not enough on its own. Yeah. Yeah.

18:41 You know what I mean? I do. I think the other thing that you wrestle with with that term leadership is that it does feel like that word has been used in so many different ways for so long that it's... I don't know that people are hearing that word and their ears are opening for something new or fresh. It's almost like... You know, when you repeatedly hear the same marketing or sales routine, as soon as it starts, your subconscious goes hurt it and shuts down. I think in a lot of ways, anytime we lead a conversation around this term leadership, I think in a lot of ways, people have stopped listening to that word. Yeah. Because they assume they know what's coming next.

19:23 And I think what's interesting about what Clint is focusing on, which you'll hear a lot more about in that show, is mentorship and how that mentorship is possibly the new word to replace what has been for so long, leadership in quotation marks. We got really dialed in, I think, over the years of learning nuance between management and leadership. Mm-hmm. And I think what we're seeing is this wave of the future of leaders being asked to be mentors. This word mentorship is going to have a whole different context to it. It is going to ask people to adapt new skills and new tools, new resources, right? To be this role. And what we're seeing is the workforce coming.

20:04 Not only are the young leaders that are stepping into key positions know how to do it, or I should say, are more drawn to it themselves. Like it's more natural for them as well. Mm-hmm. But then this workforce coming is like, they want it. They need it. Yeah. And so for them, they don't want to be led. They want to be mentored. Yeah. And that's really... Again, going back to this theme year in review, I think what you and I experienced a lot this year, I've got some fear factor that perks up when I say this, is that we've had some relationships paralleling us that mentored us. Yeah. Right? They were invited. They did the things that we felt like we could trust them, that we let them in the inner circle and we're very honest and transparent about certain aspects of our business or about us as our roles as leaders, blah, blah, blah.

20:57 And they did mentor us. And so looking back on this year, I think the thing that stands out to me, man, is this idea of, I want to learn more. about what that role looks like and what that title looks like. To be a mentor in business, with the podcast, in our consulting, in the things that we do, can we cross this threshold and develop more mentors? So I guess where I was going with that, I look back this year, man, and I go, wow, we were really fortunate with some of the friendships and relationships that we... that we were able to experience and that we know we'll continue to experience.

21:39 But man, 2021 for me, I really felt like we met a whole different caliber of people this year. And even in our client relationships, you and I have gotten so much out of those relationships too, in conjunction with whatever value that we bring professionally. They just... I feel really honored and really, what's the word like? Blessed. I don't know how else to say it, right? I don't say that to isolate anyone or whatever, but I just feel really blessed in this year. It was not an easy. No. But I feel so fortunate in so many ways relationally this year.

22:23 And it's probably why this whole concept of mentorship means so much. It's like we... Anyways, I'm kind of tangenting, going down a tangent now, but anyways. There's been a lot of that. You know what the other word is? Is and. I kind of make fun of it sometimes. But I will tell you, I think the word and and the understanding of and versus a either or or but. Yeah. In the way that we assess the opportunity or conflict or conversation or whatever. Yeah. That to me was a real game changer this year. It's been huge for me. It's a big theme. I grew up... My faith background is Christianity and that and thing, that yin and yang.

23:05 I talk about yin and yang a lot. I'm not a Buddhist. But I think as I've gotten older, and I think business has cultivated this for me, their black and white thinking is broken down for me as I've gotten older. Because there are so many things that we encounter in business, in relationships with partners, with employees. As leaders, we navigate situations that are just all these different shades of gray. It's just like life is so much of both and. I think it's been helpful for me to just lean into that. Instead of the but or this or that, or this is right or wrong, it's like looking at it and saying, okay...

23:48 Maybe. But yeah, where's the end in this? Gosh, I think a perfect example of this is... And we're going to talk a lot more about this this coming year. My guess is with some of the guests that we'll be having, this is going to be a pressure point all year. It's the accountability case slash relationship. Yeah. I think in the past, what we've seen a lot of is you have leaders that either are really good at developing relationship or... they're very good at accountability. Yeah. And what we're learning is that the primo is and. Yeah. It's both. Meaning you can't hang your hat on the thing that's easier for you.

24:30 Yeah. Or more natural. You have to adapt to both. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's why that word is so powerful and why you and I, I think, have just really tried to use it to our advantage this year in terms of how we're developing individually. is there is a lot of power in looking at a situation and saying it's an and. Yeah. It's not either or. You can't be all this or all that. Or you can't only be strong in this. We have to see the other component that has to be sandwiched to it. Don't you think that is part of the yin and yang that you and I bring to our partnership? Because I think as default wiring...

25:10 you're more wired towards the accountability and standards. Yeah. I'm a little bit more wired on the relational connection side. And I've watched you shoring up the connection relationship side, dramatically moving towards that. For me, I feel like my growing edge... I felt it in spades this year as our consulting practice has filled up and flourished. It's like there's been more and more opportunities for me to confront that. Yeah. really offering both to the people we're working with. Because my tendency is to build connection, connection, connection, connection, and to pull back from standards and accountability in order to protect the relationship with the client.

25:57 And so that's... When I look back over the year, I can spot that trend line of, Getting more and more comfortable leaning into standards, accountability, honesty, transparency with clients, giving the hard feedback. Yeah. And really seeing that as part of the relationship. It's like not only are we learning that it's part of the relationship, but it's that balance. Yeah. It's actually the difference maker. Yep. Yeah. And I think that that's what's so neat about you and I. I think, I don't know how else to say it, but just kind of experiencing that this year and prioritizing that in our thought patterns is that it's really a differentiator.

26:38 Like those leaders or those people that have downline personnel, man, if you can develop this and approach, it goes from good to holy cow. That's a difference maker. You know what's hard for me is, and it always has been as a leader, is the hang time. And what I mean by that is when there's a conversation that needs to happen or a piece of feedback that's very candid and is going to cut, it's going to land because it's truth and it's real, right? There's a behavior or a habit that you're seeing in somebody that's destructive or it's preventing them from really living out there potential or capacity. My struggle has been...

27:19 There's a hang time. When you communicate truth, a lot of times when it first lands with somebody, they take a defensive posture, it puts them on their heels. They feel all the things they feel because of their ego. And for me, the way I'm wired, I'm like super high merchant. If you're familiar with the Core Values Index, I'm super, super high merchant. And one of our... The dark side of that is that it's really destabilizing for leaders like me when there's a break in the relationship. But most of the time when we communicate truth, after the dust settles and people can see what it is you communicated to them, well, the relationship's restored.

28:00 But it's that hang time while you're putting something out there. And there's maybe a temporary break in the relationship or they pull back because they're offended or they're hurt by the reality you shared with them. For a lot of my career, that was the ceiling on my leadership. I was too afraid of that relational disconnect. And so I was holding back. I was only really giving 80% to the relationship. And I think a lot of leaders struggle with that. We've seen that with... I've seen that with some of my coaching clients. I think there's just different kinds of leaders that float to the top. And that's one of the struggles I've had.

28:41 But I feel like I made some progress this year. So that feels good looking back on even some of my early client engagements in the Q1 that I'm thinking of in my head and some conversations that I maybe shied back from. I've jumped into the deep end later in the year. Yeah. And it's really produced fruit. And seen the positive. Yeah, I've seen the positive from it. So now it's almost inspiring to me. It's like, hey, when I share truth... And I do it really clearly and directly rather than kind of dancing around or kind of tiptoeing into a conversation because I want to prepare them and not offend. I've seen the fruit of when I've built trust, communicating very directly.

29:23 And clearly, just how much more valuable that is to the people that I'm working with. What do you think, from your perspective, and I'm genuinely curious here, what do you look back on this year and go, okay, I intentionally set out to do that. And I just killed it. That was one I can really hang my hat on that I achieved what I wanted to. Do you have one of those things from 2021? Yeah. Yeah. Boy, that's tough because I'm so hard on myself. It's hard to say it? Like say, oh, I really believe this would happen? It's hard to say it because I catch myself immediately benchmarking myself against the people in my orbit.

30:09 Yeah. And so, can you go first? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm with you. I think you're right. It's hard to make this assessment because then you immediately want to compare yourself to somebody else and say, Yeah, but was it as good as them? I would say this. Or even comparing it against what I think maybe I'm capable of. I'm so critical of... I think I could have worked harder when I look back over the year. Yeah. I think I could have pressed in when in virtually every... And we were talking about this yesterday. I think I'm capable of more. Yeah. Not in an arrogant way at all, but I look at my performance and I'm like, I think I could have given more in that area.

30:54 I think I could have worked a little bit harder in some of the content I put together I think I could have been more diligent in writing. And I think I could have been even more diligent in... I could have created more material and tools for our clients. I don't know, man. Okay. So here's mine. And it was an accident. It was an accident. It wasn't... It wasn't part of the business plan. It wasn't part of the strategies for a successful first year. It was none of those things. This year, I accidentally got much better at being in a space that I was either peer or self-evaluated without being offended.

31:35 Break that down for me. Okay. What do you mean? So this is weird, but okay. You and I have had the awesome opportunity to spend time with some really neat people. Okay. And there's a common theme with neat people in quotation marks. Normally, folks that are going places... And guys, I'm not talking about just money here. I'm just talking about whatever their vision is for themselves personally, they're making traction in that. They're achieving the things they want to, regardless if I agree or disagree with the value of whatever that looks like. Okay. I just want to get that out and open. When I look at people that I respect from a myriad of different ways, a lot of it is about passion, drive, honesty about themselves, honesty about the people that they spend time with, right?

32:16 Their willingness to be evaluated, to self-evaluate, to challenge their peers, all those things. I really love all those things. But it's hard. If you're honest about it, it's fucking hard to be in that kind of circle. Especially when you start doing it more consistently, that circle begins to include... Some people that are moving at a pace that is just very hard to mimic, I guess. I don't know. And so part of that, and a lot of it's on the back of your nice friendship and relationship this year, just because it was challenged in such different ways for the first time. And it just is, I just have had more time to be around people that challenge me and cause me to take note of what I am doing and what I'm not doing.

33:00 Mm-hmm. And at the beginning of the year, it was very intimidating to the point which just almost could create paralysis. And as the year has progressed, and as we've both intentionally and unintentionally been surrounded and being around more people like this, I've just grown really accidentally more comfortable with some self-assessment and a push from a peer. Meaning that instead of me looking at like what you were just talking about, Instead of it being this thing like, I'm disappointed, it's full of guilt and shame, I can just look at this last year and go, you know what? I could have pressed in harder in certain areas of my year and it would have produced more fruit.

33:43 But I'm not walking away from that assessment going, oh man, what a loser. Yeah. What a bummer. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I think that that's like that in and of itself, for me personally, feels a lot like a superpower. Yeah. You know what? Actually, you said it better than I did. That is what's going on inside me as I look back over the years. It's a positive discontent. It's not full of, I should have... Or could us? It's just, I look back and I see all the things that we've been able to do and the ways we've been able to help clients. And I also see, wow, I think actually we could do a lot better.

34:25 Yeah. I think there's more in here. I think there's more in here. Yeah. And I don't know exactly how that's going to show up. I mean, for example, I have loved doing this podcast. There's something very cathartic about having a platform for just processing my thoughts and some of the things that are really important to me. And that's been great. It's been helpful for me to get comfortable putting stuff out there that later I'm like, Oh, yeah. I can't believe I said it that way. Because I've spent a lot of my career being so cautious about how I'm presenting myself. Part of that comes from my sales background. Yeah. Coming into leadership roles is that sales background is you're just so planned and strategic in how you're engaging.

35:11 Not false, but you're just really hyper aware. of matching up with people, speaking people's language. We've learned that everybody has their different social styles. So as a salesperson, you get really good at matching up with people, meeting them where they're at. And the toxic residue of getting really, really good at that, though, is that you're hyper aware of what people think of you and coming across the right way and stuff like that. So it's been a really good exercise for me. I think even just in my client work of having this podcast to just put thoughts out there and just let them stand on their own. Not always be polishing or repackaging or editing out the stuff that wasn't quite right.

35:54 But just that's been a good exercise for me to get comfortable. just putting these thoughts and ideas out there without trying to mastermind how it's going to be received. Yeah, I can appreciate that. You know what I mean? Oh, and I've seen that in you for sure. And there's a couple things that stand out to me as you say that. One is, I think it's because you've done a better job this year of separating your identity from your thoughts. and from perspectives. Meaning that you have learned this year, at least from my vintage point, to hold on to that stuff with looser hands so that when we put it out there, it can be dissected a bit. And it can not be agreed with per se all the time.

36:35 And it doesn't shatter you because you've created separation between your independent identity and some of these things that we're practicing. Dude, life is practice. Right? I think the other thing that kind of stands out to me in that too, and I'm not saying that you've experienced this, but I think there's a benefit to it, is that... I've witnessed you also giving yourself the freedom to change this year. So when we say things, if we're afraid to put those out there because we're not sure that we've got the fully thought through, flushed out perspective on that... The reality of it is we're in a constant state of change as individuals, as leaders.

37:15 We should be constantly growing, constantly changing, constantly getting a wider perspective and more context on the environments that we're operating in. And if we do that, our perspectives are going to change. We're going to be negotiating those perspectives a bit as time goes on. So for me, you doing more of that this year, I think is so powerful because all of us in leadership positions really have an opportunity to say, okay, in this particular point in time, in the context that I've been exposed to, here's my perspective. But I'm very open to the fact that a year from now, when I have more life under me, maybe it'll be a little bit different, right? And that doesn't mean that everything from core values to principles is wishy-washy.

37:58 That's not what we're saying. But man, yeah, I would say that's a pretty realistic evaluation of yourself. And I've seen that as your business partner this year. And to me, it's made it really fun to do work with you. Because it spurs me to be willing to do that. I mean, shit, this year in general, this whole podcast and everything that we do in a lot of ways, it's just totally freaky. Yeah. Right? Because you're... I mean, it's kind of a constant state of looking behind the scenes. So anyways, I think you're right on there. I think it's powerful. All right, let's take a minute to recognize and thank our MitResto Mastery sponsor, Accelerate Restoration Software.

38:40 And I'm fully aware by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software, that that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there, right? Because we probably all fall into one of two camps when it comes to software. We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work, Or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, you know, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all. But we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it. Yeah, and that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right?

39:23 It's intuitive, and it focuses on the most mission-critical information, i.e., guys, your team will actually use it. Let's talk about sales, right? After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral partners and clients. And the essential piece there is there's got to be a mobile app experience. And in our experience... the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use. Yeah. Imagine guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor, go check these guys out at xlrestorationsoftware.com forward slash MRM and check out the special offers they're providing to MRM listeners.

40:14 All right, let's talk about actionable insights. Owners, GMs, you can't be your business's expert on all things estimating. You might have been three years ago when you were writing sheets in the field, but the industry is always changing, and so are the tools. If you're the smartest person in the room when it comes to Xactimate Matterport, how does that scale? You're the bottleneck. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is where actionable insights comes in. They're a technical partner that can equip your team with the latest bleeding edge information and best practices and then update them with webinars and training resources when the game inevitably changes again. For this reason, we recommend actual insights to all of our clients.

40:54 Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3,700 plus page database of Xactimate templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it, bam. database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple points and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world.

41:38 So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash FCG. What about tomorrow, man? What about next year? Is there something weighing on you that you're like, man, I'm going to prioritize this next year? I think I'm excited. It's funny. I'm in this kind of pensive, reflective kind of mode at the moment here at year end. We were talking about this on our coffee walk yesterday. I feel like I'm being drawn. I'm 41. My oldest kid is 16. And I just feel like I'm experiencing this midlife pull to really discover what is my capacity?

42:22 What am I capable of? I feel like there's some areas of discipline that I want to really dig deep in and discover what am I capable of? of doing if I really got serious about that. Yeah. I had a buddy die this last year. And actually, it wasn't this last year. It just feels like yesterday. It was the year before last. But he's been on my mind at different intervals. He was 50. Yeah. And he died really suddenly in a car accident. And anyway, we weren't super close. He'd moved out of town. And so we were really long-term... You know how you have those friends that you had a lot of face-to-face history and then they move out of town or they get a different job.

43:06 And so you're more pen pals. We interact on Facebook. We have phone calls periodically, but we weren't super close. But he occupied a really meaningful time in my life where we were close. And I just, when that happened, it's just really brought me to the present moment of none of us know how much time we have left. Yeah. And I think for me, one of the themes next year, and it's not so much, it's not a New Year's resolution. It's like, this is a theme that I'm feeling. I've been feeling throughout 2021. And I just, as I reflect over the year, that's where my mind and my heart goes is, I'm How can I be more present and engaged with what's in front of me?

43:49 Yeah. And I think some of it's just the really day-to-day nitty-gritty things of how am I taking care of myself to be at my best? Am I being disciplined with my energy and my creativity? How much do I fritter away throughout the day, even when I'm here at the office? Yeah. How much of my creativity and my attention gets frittered away scrolling through my LinkedIn feed under the guise of staying connected and networking and all that kind of stuff, but where I'm really not bringing my full self to that. Yeah. And then certainly, we talk about this a lot. It's like, we are all whole people.

44:30 We're not just professionals. We're not just business owners and entrepreneurs. We aren't here to make money and spend money. Relationships, I think... I have a 16-year-old daughter. I only have her in the house maybe for a couple more years. Yeah. And a lot of days I'm thinking, I can't wait for those two years to pass. Yeah. I love you, honey. If you're listening to this, I do. I do. And someday you'll be a parent maybe and you'll understand. Right? But I think I waste a lot of brain space just trying to get through versus really being present. Yeah. And really appreciating the moments that I have. I can get really caught up in stupid shit. Yeah. And so it's that stuff.

45:11 And it sounds heavy, but it's not. It's actually like, boy, I look back at the year and I think, oh my gosh, we've been so lucky. We've been so fortunate. Yeah. I love it. What could next year be like if I'm more serious about my day and just my day? Yeah. Like I'm more intentional. I'm more disciplined with, okay, what am I putting in my body? How am I taking care of my body? How am I spending my time? Am I lingering? Like last night, I was at the office working on an article, soon to come out on CNR. I'm writing an article, but I I procrastinated. I put it off. I waited. I blew some time in between client appointments, whatever, checking LinkedIn when I could have been digging down.

45:55 And so I was at the office till 6.30 last night, doing what I had to do. And I just think to myself, well, what could next year look like if I was more disciplined with how I expend my energy and what I apply my brain to from six in the morning till six at night. And what could that mean for my relationships with my family? How could that change the game? Yeah. Just by being more intentional, bringing more present. Yeah, I like the intentionality piece there. I got to mirror that to a certain extent. One of the things I feel like that we learned this year is how different the, let's call it, decision-making mechanisms were for, as an example, the clients that we took on this year.

46:41 And how there was this pretty wide spectrum between aggressive, proactive engagement of the business and that's why they wanted to work with someone versus a... quiet desperation of like, I am just so sick of being sick and tired. I'm going to try this to see if it will help. Yeah. And from us as a service provider, both of those are amazing. When we can meet someone that is quietly desperate and they just need help, we love that opportunity to bring reprieve, to remind someone how to be excited about their business again.

47:21 I love that. Yeah. But I also wildly respect those people that haven't gotten to that state because they're so aggressive about the proactive engagement in their business and their role and what they want to see happen. And so for me, I've realized over the years, I think I've spent more time making decisions out of the quiet desperation. You just reach that point, I can't ignore this anymore. Yeah. And because I've had this really third-party perspective of watching people in the throes of this decision-making matrix, if you will... There's something that just stuck out to me to all those business owners that engaged with us from this really healthy, proactive perspective. And I'm just thinking in my mind, you know what?

48:02 I want to mirror more of that next year. Yeah. And it really does... It speaks to what you're talking about too. It's just this getting really honest and aggressive about looking at my current situation, looking at the current status of our business, looking at the current status of our service offering, whatever. And saying, what do I want to do with that? Yeah. Right? I'm not a victim. I'm not desperate. I don't have no choice. Yeah. I actually get to play a super proactive role in all those choices. And how do I want to prioritize that? What kind of business do I want to have versus what kind of business do I inevitably get? And so for me, that is really, really going to be a big deal in 2022 personally.

48:46 Yeah. Because I think it affects everything, right? Because I can look at my role as a dad with those eyes. I can look at my role as a husband with those eyes. I can look at my role as a business partner, as an advisor, whatever. And I can say, but what do I want to be doing with that role? Yeah. And not being intimidated by that, but just looking at it and saying, okay, well, then what kinds of things do I need to prioritize in that space in my life to bring or be what I want in that situation instead of just getting what I get? Yeah. You know what kind of sits underneath that for me is I've been noticing, I've been trying to be aware of it. I've been trying to more quickly notice this. I think sometimes I conflate relaxing or sort of like...

49:31 I don't really use the word self-care. It feels like something from a woman's blog. It's terrible. But this notion of self-care, I think men, we don't... That's a common idea and kind of theme that I think women are recognizing. Yes. Because culturally, whatever... There's been a spoken or unspoken expectation that women just take care of everybody else. They don't take care of themselves. But I think the same thing can be true with men. But how much I numb out in different ways, but I call it something else. I catch myself numbing out. And sometimes I'm numbing out on podcasts, to be honest. Yeah, sure.

50:12 Just podcasts. General entertainment. Any good thing can become a bad thing. But I catch myself throwing on a podcast instead of just sitting in my thoughts. Yeah. So last night, I took my dog for a walk. The dog thing, it's something else. But I'm starting to have these moments where I'm like, Oh, I'm going to walk the dog. And last night was actually the first time in the last few weeks where I realized what was going on there for me. I left the house as I have to walk the dog because she's losing her shit, freaking out. She's just wily and going off the rails, spinning around in circles and jumping on everything. And I'm like, okay, geez, gosh.

50:53 But I left my phone at the house. And I knew what she needed. I needed to just walk her for like 30 minutes. And after I got across the street, I realized I left my phone in the house because normally I would just put my earbuds in and I'd throw on a podcast and just basically numb out. Yeah. Under the guise of, I'm listening to the Knowledge Project or I'm listening to whatever. Yeah. I'm learning. I'm expanding my whatever. Blah, blah, blah. Self-development, professional development. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I think that's what I'm realizing is I can bullshit myself really well doing things that on the surface are good, but I'm not willing to sit quietly.

51:33 Like we talked about with Rachel, this was a big moment for me and maybe it's why it's on my mind so much. Yeah. Rachel brought up on our workshop we did of the visioneering. We talked about deep work and that actually got assigned to me. I was the one that I facilitated those slides. And I started to think to myself, how often do I create time as a leader, as an advisor to other leaders, to just actually be quiet? And the answer for me was not very often at all, if I'm honest. Yeah. I talk about mindfulness. I talk about it quite a lot. Yeah. What has taken the place of my mindfulness or meditation or quiet time or just time to just process life and thoughts and whatever it is, clients or business strategy or whatever, but being just alone and quiet in my thoughts, I, for whatever reason, I've...

52:28 I struggle with that. Yeah. And so last night I was thinking about that and I found so much pleasure in walking around the neighborhood and just kind of decompressing. It felt really healthy. Yeah. And the one area that I have really grown in this year, so this was success. It's not overly business related, but I feel like it's spilled over into our business. is I've spent a lot of times in the woods. Yeah. You know, and a lot by myself, you know, just getting out to the woods and either finding a sit spot, just sitting down and just literally sitting for 30 minutes, trying, trying to just, you know, get quiet. Or walking out there with my kids.

53:09 It's interesting when my kids and I go out to the woods, they like to horse around. There's 13 and 10 and they like to scream and yell. But it's just funny. Really quickly, the woods have a calming effect on them too. Yeah. It's almost like we're all experiencing the same peace when we get out there. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have these long periods of time where my boys aren't saying anything. I'm not saying anything. Even on this one spot on the path, this place we'd like to go, there's this clearing that opens up and there's a ravine and it just looks out over this valley spot. And I love to just stop and just stand there and take it in. Sometimes the fog is rising off the valley floor and it's like the trees are poking out of the fog and it's just this...

53:54 Almost like a, what's that fantasy series? Come on, that three-part movie, Lord of the Rings. See, everybody's going to be like, what a dork. He doesn't know Lord of the Rings. It's almost like this Lord of the Rings kind of set. And at one point, one of these times, I just stood there and I was so overcome with a piece of it. And my boys, they caught up with me and they just stood next to me. I was like, God, there's something here. I don't spend enough time. Like this recharges my batteries. Yeah. You know? Yeah, it's healthy. So that's one thing I want to do more next year. And that spills over into every... every other part of me. Do you want to chat a little bit before we wrap this up?

54:36 And then I think we did a bit of a rearview mirror look and a little bit of tomorrow. But what about our podcast, dude? I know you and I have really been wrestling with this. We've been wrestling with the show. We've been thinking about the assessment of the show in terms of its performance this last year. How close to the goal did we remain in terms of what we wanted to do? Mm-hmm. And so I don't know, maybe take, let's take five or six minutes and maybe talk about that. What we want to press into this coming year. Are you cool to do that? Yeah. You want to do that? I'm totally cool. Here's kind of my perspective on where the start was. We looked at the space. And we looked at our podcast to do two things.

55:18 One is to be brave, to challenge us to be more transparent and open about our own challenges as leaders, as business leaders, as business owners. And just tell people they're not alone. Like, hey, we're gonna be willing to cover some of these topics. Sometimes it'll be very tactical. Sometimes it's strategic. Sometimes it's just a brain dump. And hopefully there's value in that. I feel like in many ways... Even though the road meandered a little bit, we certainly had moments where we were more confident than not. In a lot of ways, I feel like we remained on that path. Yeah. There's no way I could say that every time it was super intentional. But I think we just stayed there. And we challenged ourselves to do a couple shows that were really unnerving.

56:00 Just personally. Sure. Maybe other people heard it and they're kind of like, yeah, well... So anyways, I feel like to a certain perspective, that would be my take on this year is we fell forward. We learned a lot. We got better in certain areas. We certainly continued to make mistakes in others. Learned a lot. Yeah. Where are you at in terms of what you... How did you think 2021 went with the show? Well, I mean, I just think it's been so fun. Yeah. One of the reasons why we did it too was to expand our connections and relationships in the industry. Big time, yeah. You know, it's like, boy, this is kind of a cool excuse to... invite people that we admire. We've admired from afar or we've just had a very sort of incidental relationship with to deepen our relationship with some of the people we've had on as guests.

56:47 And we still have a wish list of folks that we're admirers of, their work. And so that has been everything and more. than I had hoped it would be. I mean, I just look at the friends that are around us now. Some from actually being on the podcast and some from people that heard the podcast and reached out or said something. And we connected with people on a different level than we had before. So that was great. Yeah. I feel what you said. I think you and I just... We wanted to bring something different... maybe not in a marketing sense of, hey, there's a hole in the market.

57:27 Although I think we thought maybe there was like to just bring a different kind of conversation that wasn't totally focused on the nuts and bolts of the industry, but really what's happening in our head and our heart as leaders? Like what's real? Like what's the ego struggles that we have as business owners and senior leaders? What feels good about the work beyond the money? Yeah. Like the legacy piece. Yeah. Like building something. These are things that I think as leaders, we all relate to, but we don't talk about as much. We tend to get really tactical when we're talking with other business buddies. Yeah. We're calling them about the current opportunities or struggles or wins or losses we're having.

58:08 We don't get into, what are we feeling? And it's real. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we did that. I think there's been a lot of that. And I think for me... I want to learn how to become more authentic. Sometimes when we hit record, I put on my podcast voice or I put on my... Sure. I think you and I are getting more and more natural of just being able to almost talk to each other. The audience is... We're certainly mindful, I guess, of trying to create value. But I want to get better at just having the conversations that you and I normally have. Yeah. Not feel like we're in a fishbowl.

58:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's one thing that I think we've grown a lot in. I mean, those early days, like I said, we re-recorded, stopped, and said, let's start that over. That was crappy. Run in from my own shit. Yeah, we do a lot of that because we just think, oh, that was a dumb way to say it. For the reality is sometimes we say it dumb and then we'll say it better later in the sentence or whatever. But I just want to get more authentic in our conversations. I also, when we talked about this, I want to get better at creating... And this is really a leadership behavior. I want to get better at creating a safe container for other people to feel comfortable sharing at that level. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I look at the guests we've had thus far and the guests that we've already got on the docket for next year.

59:33 And it's like, I want to see them. And I think that's where our culture is headed. Our culture is pushing that. Yeah. Yeah. Like my kids, it's really interesting. Some of my best conversations with the kids are when they start to get candid with me about what they see, their observations. I think social media is a big part of this. There's been a ton of crap that's come from social media and all of us feel it, right? We're all addicted to our phones at some level, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think one of the beautiful things it's created is the millennials and on down have just highly tuned bullshit detectors. Yeah. They don't want to fake it. Yeah.

1:00:13 They don't want to work for a business that makes them fake it. Yeah. They don't want to be in relationships where they have to fake it. The weird tension that we're still in though is that we fake it on social media platforms. but it's created this hunger and desire to not fake it in real life. If that makes sense. Yeah. Like we all feel the pressure because this is the social dynamic, right? I mean, this is the social dilemma, you know, if you watch that documentary, but it's this paradox of, we all feel pressure to fake it, but there's this growing drumbeat. And I, in my conversations one-on-one with business people, it's there. Yeah. Like people feel it.

1:00:54 Like they're... And it's like I said, we get these texts from people when we did that filling the whole episode just about past wounding and how it affects our leadership and that kind of stuff. And you and I just did an anger podcast. I don't know how that's going to land with people, but... I just feel like there's a drumbeat of enough of the bullshit. Yeah. I want to talk about what's real. Yeah. Amongst business people, I think if I had to identify a single thing that I've been really successful in my career, it's not because I'm a super rad salesperson. I've been an okay to above average salesperson in my career. But what's been the killer thing or what has really, I think, propelled me is... over the years, I've gotten better and better at just being real in the way I approach people.

1:01:37 It just connects with people somehow. And I want more of that. And I think other people want more of that of just like, enough of the bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, I think, you and I both feel that way. It's like shared value of, let's just talk about what's real. What's now? What's really happening in this situation? What's going on inside me that I feel so offended by that thing that just happened? What's going on with me that I feel small, I feel insignificant, I feel inadequate when I'm talking to this person? What is that about? Like dealing with what's real, I think for me, that's a really life-giving place to sit. No, I agree with you. And I think what's cool is that you and I in our preparation for next year and getting ready to just really do some... We've been in this planning phase for a bit now because we're going to double down on that.

1:02:28 Yeah. To the extent that you and I are evaluating the name of the show. Yeah. And it's likely... Not likely. It will happen. One of the first episodes that you'll experience in 2022 will be under the new banner. And we're going to go into a bit of detail at length explaining why we're changing the name. But as part of this wrap-up or review, we're going to speak to our audience, meaning this industry. But we just felt like the name that we developed out of the gate was too tactical in nature. It doesn't really do a great job of describing and or identifying where we want to be. And we want to continue to deliver next year on some strategy, some technical, tactical stuff.

1:03:11 We want to do that. But we are really going to prioritize and focus on the non-compartmentalized elements of leadership and where it is that we are as business leaders, business owners. and really being committed to this idea that it's head, heart, and boots in a lot of ways. There is multi-dimensional elements to who we are. And we don't want to ignore one of those when we talk about our roles as key leaders, as mentors to folks, as to the heads of our companies and our teams. So I think that's going to be really exciting. I think it's going to be fun. We're going to be reaching out of the industry aggressively. That's the piece that's like, what is the name of your podcast?

1:03:53 Who really cares? But I think our audience is restoration. We're not shifting gears. That's the space we're really trying to serve and connect people and so forth. And I think you and I are both really passionate about, we want to bring... thought leaders in, operators, people with new ideas from outside the industry in and expose them to the industry. And Clint is going to be one of those first few people. And it's just awesome to get outside of the four walls of restoration and disaster mitigation, all that kind of stuff. And to start to pull some kind of different perspectives, different language, fresh perspectives out of other leaders and other operators.

1:04:35 And so whatever we change our name to, that's one of our goals is to just make it a little bit more when we've reached out to some of these speakers. Like, oh yeah, what's the podcast called? I'll check it out. And it's like, well, it's called the Mitt Resto Mastery Podcast. And people, outsiders, they're like, uh, what? What? What does that mean? Well, we call it the MRM for short. It's disaster restoration. You know what I mean? So our audience is not going to change. You are who we're speaking to. But we want to really focus on bringing new ideas and stuff in from the outside. And so whatever name we land on, it'll still hopefully... really capture what we're trying to do. But it'll open up, I think, an opportunity to talk more easily to folks that aren't inside our industry to get them on the show and so forth.

1:05:20 Yeah. So, okay. Well, I don't know. That was sort of a rambly walk... It's just real. But it's real. Yeah. I'd say this, guys. If you've been walking along with us this year, I think Chris and I just want to say thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. We've had fun. We've learned a lot. We feel like in many ways we're falling forward. You guys have been honest and real in terms of your input and perspective on what we've been doing. Stick with us. Tell a friend. Hang out with us, guys. Next year is going to be a lot of fun and it's going to be more of us just challenging ourselves and you. to be more real with the realities, if you will, about our roles as leaders and company owners and our responsibilities to those folks, the human capital, if you will, that have been put in our charge.

1:06:09 And just remember, guys, you're not alone. That's why we created this show. So hang out with us and... Keep sending us your DMs. It's really encouraging. You like something, you don't like something, something provokes you, something challenges you. That stuff's really... It's encouraging to Brandon and I just that people are engaging with anything we're saying. That's right. And so if something's helpful or it makes you think about something, shoot us those DMs. You know how to find us on LinkedIn, Facebook. Some of you have our cell phone. Our cell phone numbers are pretty easy to find. Shoot us a text, whatever. Have a good rest of the year. And we'll see you in 2022. Later. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of the MRM podcast.

1:06:50 And if you got something out of it, share it with a friend, hit subscribe, hit follow, leave us a five-star review. Thanks a lot.