Ep 156 - "A Year In Review, With Michelle Blevins"

0:00 Hola. Yeah. How are you, amigo? You know what? We were just talking about some Christmas vacation plans, and I'm getting more and more excited about taking a little break, turning the lights off here for a few days at good old Floodlight Head Heart and Boots headquarters here. This one's actually going to be released while we're on Christmas break. Yeah. So we've got a good show today. But hey, for those of you that are just now stumbling into... head, heart, and boots. And you're like, what is this about? Well, this is kind of the founder's podcast for a restoration consulting company. It's called Floodlight Consulting Group. Brandon and I are co-founders of that. And maybe this is timely too, because it's end of year. A lot of people, whether you're a longtime listener or first-time listener, you may have been thinking about consulting.

0:44 Maybe you have friends or other business colleagues that have hired consultants for their business, and it's been a real force multiplier for them. Brandon and I, part of the inspiration for Floodlight was as we were coming up in the restoration industry, we got a lot of value out of hiring consultants and coaches. Absolutely. So if this is something you've kicked around... you don't maybe have it all figured out, or you're just looking for a battle buddy, somebody to sort of increase your bandwidth to help execute on big plans and objectives for 2025, that's a great way to think about consulting. And if you want to kick the tires on that, just go to floodlightgrp.com. It's pretty obvious where to click through for one-on-one consulting. And I will actually jump on the phone with you and we'll talk shop, get an idea of what you're trying to do, talk about consulting, what it costs, We'll have you take our health and value assessment, which is free.

1:33 And it's just a great way to get a concrete snapshot of the value of your business today, the condition of your company's health today, and then ultimately be able to chart progress and look back hopefully at the end of 2025 and think, holy cow, Boy, boy, did we move the needle. So if that's your goal and you're looking for maybe a partner and want to know what it costs and how that whole thing works, go to floodlightgrp.com. Our clients this year, shoot, man, they're going to do over a quarter billion in business here in the restoration industry. So starting to lean closer to the 300 mil. Tap into the wisdom of the crowd, floodlightgrp.com. And now let's dive in with a great chat with Michelle Blevins, one of our great friends in the industry.

2:15 We get the... A little year in review. Yeah, we kind of covered the gamut, don't we? Yeah, we did. You know, this is not going to be industry specific. We actually just talked more at the level of as being business owners and leaders and how that kind of journey mixes in and out with our life. And we did that in the context of 2024, like for most of you listening. It was a real year, man. There was a lot of things that went down and it was challenging and both motivating and frustrating and all this stuff. And sorry in advance for those of you who will be disappointed, but there was actually no F-bombs in this episode. No, we didn't drop. I got real close, I think, if I recall correctly. It was right there, but we caught it. What a beautiful picture of self-discipline and control, man.

2:58 Way to go. It's all discipline. So here we are. Onward and upward, friends. Enjoy the episode. Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to it. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so. And ultimately, share.

3:38 The coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend. Share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members. Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review? Those five-star reviews help us a ton. Right on. And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's Business Opportunity Audit. It's free. We provide it at no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's a 110-point assessment for your business. And we've now decided to give access to the general public for it.

4:19 So go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp.com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now. And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. So go check it out, floodlightgrp.com forward slash audit and take the boa. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business. What's up, Michelle? What's up, guys? We're so happy to be here. Whether we're emotional or not, whether we have our crap together or not, it's all fine. Everything's fine. Yeah, we were just all into the preamble. And then I'm like, oh, let's just record this, guys. What are we waiting for? Yeah, Brandon was, for those of you that missed it, which was all of you except for us three, Brandon was just talking about how emotional and personal kind of his orientation is.

5:07 Like he always wants to make it personal and emotional. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we were digging. And then there's Chris on the other side. Stoic. Yeah. Hard to get through. Very pragmatic. Yeah. Yeah. Very grounded. Yeah. Yeah. Non-emotional. Where do you fall in the... Where do you fall, Michelle? Yeah. I feel like we've already gone off the rails here. So, Brandon, when you were talking about before we hit record, how lately that label has kind of been coming around. One, I was surprised. But two, I also went through a phase right around the time that I bought a CNR where I got labeled as emotional a few times. And that honestly took me... a little aback and it really made me evaluate like how I come across in the industry, how I present myself.

5:53 The times that I got emotional did involve like giving an award to somebody I'm very close to. And I ended up getting a little emotional in the presentation of that. And then in the purchase of CNR, some things that happened were. I was kind of standing up for myself in that. And in this situation from other parties felt like I was more emotional in that. Then I was just really trying to stand up for myself. And I felt like I just no one was hearing me and that my voice and opinion didn't matter as the person that was buying it kind of. So that was, it's interesting when you go through a phase like that, where it was a label that I had gotten in that era and I was not a fan.

6:36 And so I really had to evaluate what I was doing that was making me come off that way and try to find a better way, I suppose. You just opened Pandora's box. So I think we have a direct... Right into it. Well, you know what comes up for me when you say that is I think unfortunately still a lot of us have a knee jerk reaction to emotion in the context of business as being weak. I know that's my fear. And I know like Brandon, I make a joke out of being emotional or I mean, we're kind of talking about it tongue in cheek to a degree. But I think that's what is behind the awkwardness of us talking about being emotional as business people is that I think there's still a perception that we often assign to emotional people that they're somehow weak in a business sense.

7:30 And sometimes I feel that way. Or I think when I've become emotional in a conversation with a client or in some kind of media, when we're on the podcast, or there's been a couple times where I've gotten emotional on stage when I've been... Like I think of a talk that we gave, the heart of the matter, that we gave at CORE for the main keynote a couple years ago. It was very emotional. So you were in the audience, Michelle. Yes. And it was excellent. And I remember all the graphics still that Janet had put together and all that. It was excellent. So yes. Yeah. And it was emotional. Very emotional. I don't think you could have done that without being emotional. Right. Right. But of course, the fear behind it in my, the fear in my heart, what was going on in my head was, how are people going to perceive this and perceive me?

8:16 in this light. And we actually both were like, we had this internal drive of this is important for us to share. And there was a part of us too of like, gosh, because it really was, the whole talk was really oriented around our inner thought life as leaders and the emotional component of that. And where does that come from and how does it affect our leadership and so forth? And so we felt like it was an important topic to lead some conversation in. And yet it was totally absent of any kind of like business strategy per se. Like there wasn't, there wasn't some inspiring like four-step thing of this is how you become a better leader. And so we just thought, how is this going to land with people?

8:56 Are they going to see us as soft? Are they going to somehow see us as, I don't know. Yeah. It was weird. I think that when we use the term emotional, I think it's quick to lean into maybe like the teary, you know, I'm sad or I'm emotional because I'm experiencing something that's moving me in some way. Reality of it is, is for like me personally, I'm emotional, period. And so what that means is highs are highs, lows are lows. And so all the things in between are just... I can be very animated in those voice tempo, speed of my sound, my voice, pitch, my voice, like all those things can go along with it.

9:37 The other thing is, too, is I use the word feel all the time and I don't think about it. And I think this year it's been in kind of stark contrast with some of our relationships because we got really intentional this year, for instance, bringing some people into our sphere. that are very different from us. And we needed to do that for a number of reasons. But professionally, it brought some people into our sphere that I think in context to us are borderline robotic. I mean, they're not, obviously. And so I've had these kind of gut checks several times this year where this person, and I respect and admire the hell out of them, that's the reason they're in our sphere, where they're kind of like, say it like, this is an emotional response to this, or you're being emotional or whatever.

10:24 And at first, when they say that, part of me gets even more fired up because I'm working on F-bombs, so I'm not going to color my sentence right now. That's good. I have an emotional response to the fact that they're freaking telling me I'm being emotional because... Yep. So anyways, part of what we were going to do today, this is going to go all over the place. And you know what? I'm really excited about it. Me too. We're going to do a little year in review. And we talked about it kind of initially as being a bit of industry specific. You know what, though? I think we're going to throw most of that out. And so if that turns you off and you're listening, just... Maybe hang in the pocket long enough because you may find it still fairly entertaining and valuable to you.

11:06 But I don't want to do that. I don't want to talk a whole bunch about the industry, quite honestly. Same. I'm here for it. Yeah, my ears. I'm getting a little long in the tooth this year. I'm tired. But I would like to talk with you guys a little bit. What in the hell did you experience this year that's maybe different than prior years? And what is it doing? So, Michelle, if you're cool with it, we did get a little question in before we started recording. One, just give me one right now that's top of mind where you feel like, man, this happened. It's changing the way maybe that I'm responding to certain things or reacting to certain things. What was the lesson? And I think we're going to just start popping off because I have something burning in my skull right now I want to talk about.

11:51 Okay, I love it. So is the overall question, what's something that happened this year that kind of changed my perspective on things? Yeah, or just a real significant shift that's been taking place in you this year. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So I think the biggest shift has been me learning to trust in myself as a business owner, which has been partly overcoming kind of those emotional comments and things that maybe hurt my confidence early on, which I found back really quick to the emotional conversation. What triggers me to be emotional is when I'm frustrated. I become emotional when I'm frustrated. I'm not a crier. I'm not like, I'm pretty even keeled.

12:31 I can happy, sad, whatever. But if I'm frustrated, that tends to be when I get more emotional, especially if I feel like I'm not being heard. So this year, people who are listening, if you've heard me on other podcasts this year, you know that it's been an interesting year for my business. I ended up having to let a very close friend go early in the year and her counterpart. And that had been several months in... the making. And I really had to learn to trust myself in that. And I really had to learn, write stuff down. You own this. This is your company. It's okay to make hard decisions. It's okay to, there was so much to learn in that because it was the first time I had been through that. And it took some work with my executive coach and talking to an HR consultant to make sure I had the legal stuff right.

13:17 And there were many, many, many, many, many, many, many, components to it. It meant behind the scenes trying to replace that person. So taking that leap, it actually was the best thing that I've done for my business probably so far. And it ended up being the best thing for her. She thanked me later. I never ever thought that she would understand why I asked her to leave. And she came to me, we met for coffee about a month later. And she Thank you so much for being brave enough to do for me what I couldn't do for myself. Oh, wow. And she talked about how much better her life is now and how she saw how everything was playing out.

13:57 Once it was over, she saw what I had been going through and how I had really tried. I had so tried to make it work. And so that really helped me learn to trust myself and to trust my gut and my instincts. And if I'm really feeling... like something is off to not be afraid to tackle it, not be afraid to lean into the hard stuff. Cause we grow so much through, you know, and having her on the team wasn't a mistake. It just was part of the journey. She was great on the team for a while. And then it just ended up, we evolved so much. And like you guys, when you're in kind of growth scale, you know, startup mode, it's just different.

14:37 And so it just became just not a good fit. And that was nothing against her and nothing against us. It just was what it was. And from there, our team is stronger now. We are, you know, we're ending the year on a much higher note than we were in the middle of the year. And I'm feeling much more confident as a leader to make hard decisions and to lean into that stuff. So that's probably my biggest thing from the year. This has been an interesting year Yeah. What about you guys? That was a big one. And I think one of the things that you just said that I want to affirm, because I've had an aversion of this years ago. And unfortunately, I still need them because I still forget what the hell I'm confident in and why.

15:22 But your remark about them coming back around and thanking you, that doesn't happen very often that the leader is going to have that. As a leader, you identified that you were the wrong fit for the person and that team didn't work for them anymore. And a lot of times it's like you're in an abusive relationship almost where the person can't see that it's not a good fit until they get out of it and may not come back and thank you. But the fact that you freed them really is what your responsibility is as a leader. You know, even if they never come back and say that was the best thing ever. guarantee they're going to get over it and move on and have a better experience than they would have just hanging on your life.

16:06 That's cool, man. Good for you. That's a big one. And I had accepted that maybe she would never come back to me. I didn't think that she would. I didn't know what our friendship was going to be after. And I didn't expect her to come back. But yeah, I totally agree with you. And I'm never a fan of the, you know, some people say things like, we're releasing you to your future and things like that. I've never really been a fan of those I was so careful and intentional about making sure it wasn't personal. Nothing I said was personal. It just was, this just isn't the right fit anymore. And so. Good for you. Good for you. That one's tough, man. Oh yeah, it is. What about you guys?

16:46 I have. Brandon, you had a story brewing, so. All right. So, okay. I'm not sure why. We've had, we, Chris and I, and as individuals, I've had lots of scenarios over the last probably 10 years that kind of a tough time, you go through it, you pull out on the other side and you're like, wow, that was, it was elevating to some extent, right? Like I got a new set of tools, a new way of framing how I think about myself, about our companies and all the things. This year, it seems like that's been on rapid fire since like January 1st. Like week in and week out, almost by sometimes day in and day out, there are these moments that we've had to face a challenge.

17:28 We've had to have a conversation. We're bringing in a lot of very competent people into our sphere. We've been very diligent about that. We've been honored that we have the respect of people like that. And so our sphere changed so much this year, internally and externally. that it's intimidated the living shit out of me. Like I just realized, I literally had to send an email to somebody last week that basically said, hey, my response to that, if I'm honest, is because I get intimidated by you and sometimes I don't, respond the way that I should. Literally, I had an email exchange last week. But I have felt like this all year long. I got to stop you real fast because I heard you say that to a particular individual that I think you're referring to live in a conversation.

18:14 Yeah. And I really respected the hell out of that because I think that is so hard. I would say... even more so men, but I know it's not just a guy thing because I know that women feel the same kind of intimidation, but I think there's more of an expectation maybe on men to not be intimidated, to not let on that you're feeling that way. And so I just, so that was one of the things I really admired. There's been a couple of times this year where I've heard you say that in the moment with that person and, I imagine for you that on the other side of that, it felt pretty freeing to get that off your chest and not have to pose. It does. Like, and I think that's the thing that kind of, it's both good and pisses me off at the same time is I feel like with situations like this, I have the memory of like a goldfish.

18:57 where it's like every single situation I go in with the same level of anxiety and heightened awareness and all the worries and all the things. And every time, inevitably, I get on the other side of doing what I wanted to do, but I just knew it was just intimidatingly uncomfortable. And every single time I'm rewarded for the effort or that move or that priority. And yet I go into every situation, like trying to re-talk myself into having to do that. So you're spot on. It was very freeing. And it's this weird dichotomy of it's freeing. And it also kind of feels like sometimes when you say those things out loud, then it's like now they're real. And then you're like, so what?

19:38 I was intimidated. Now what? What am I doing about it? How do I not remain intimidated? How do I shift out of this? It's just been a very demanding year. And it's been interesting because this has probably been the year that Chris and I as a team have been faced with the most opportunity. In fact, it's ramping exponentially right now with just... being invited to have some very serious conversations about opportunities and possibilities with really great people. So the intimidation with the opportunities ramping And at the same time, it's like, but you're being invited for a reason.

20:18 So what are you going to do with that? Like, how do I convince myself to be as confident as the person on the other side? The table is, and I have good answers, but I think living those things out consistently, it's really hard. It's just freaking difficult, man. I feel like one of the things, and it relates to this is... I've just felt this calling this year to become more honest in the way that I carry myself. The older I get, the more I find myself in those situations and I notice inside me there's this intense pressure to perform and to present myself in a certain way as maybe being more confident than I actually am or...

21:04 in some cases, more knowledgeable or experienced than I actually might be when I feel intimidated and I come into those scenarios is I kind of work overtime trying to leverage my intellect to present myself in a particular way when internally I'm feeling... very conflicted or unsure of myself, I've just noticed that. And this is just, it keeps coming up for me. It's the internal question that I'm asking myself is, why do I feel such an intense pressure to act like a certain way versus just showing up the way I am and being honest? And the times where we've done this, I feel like whenever I am actually honest about what's happening internally, I'm, it almost always creates more of a connection with the other person.

21:52 Yeah. And it results in their respect. Like more often than not, when I'm honest about maybe coming into a conversation or when I'm honest about being not equal in the conversation, hey, I don't understand what we're talking about. I mean, it just takes a variety of forms, right? Being honest. But when I do, I feel like it tends to build the trust and connection I have with that other person. Yes. Significantly faster and more deeply than when I'm posing and trying to act like I am aligned with this person or I, you know what I mean? And so that's been both kind of troubling in a way and also inspiring. Like it's, it's, I think all of us want to go into every conversation being really confident.

22:36 And yet I think that's just not reality. And I think like to your point, dude, this has been such a huge growth here for us. We've been showing up at tables and in conversations with folks that I think four years ago, you and I just never would have anticipated. And when you show up to a big table, metaphorically speaking, there's a real pressure, I think, comes with it to feel like you need to justify your seat at the table, like why you deserve to be there. And sometimes the reality is you don't feel like you deserve to be there. You're like, wow, how did this happen? So I think sometimes instead of just feeling gratitude for being at the table and being like, wow, okay, now...

23:17 How do I learn what's required in order for me to stay here? There's this pressure. You feel like you have to pretend like you belong there. And anyway, I mean, I don't know if anybody relates to this. Sounds like you guys do, but I'm sure that people do. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's the whole fake it till you make it kind of mentality or imposter syndrome. And yeah, all the time, very constant. I'm curious in these, as you're getting more and more of these opportunities, how are you deciding what's for you and what's not? Where are you finding your no? You know, I have a couple of things in my business where... It's like if it doesn't align with these things, then I know that this probably isn't the direction for us. But I've gone through similar situations, I think, to the two of you and also feel very probably like you do.

24:03 When you're in these conversations, you really want to serve these people well. You are thankful to be there and you want to make sure that you are serving this relationship exceptionally well. And then I've also just learned sometimes that I can't. Like I don't actually have necessarily the resources that you're looking for. But anyway, I'm curious how you're weeding through all of these opportunities because you can't say yes to everything no matter how much we want to. And we shouldn't say yes to everything sometimes. So do you have a way that you're weeding through them? I think we're trying to figure that out. You know what I mean? I think, you know, for me personally, this year, I think the challenge has been probably most rooted in how quickly do I want to give myself and even in my partnership with Chris, us, the freedom to lean into what we want versus what we feel like we have to do.

24:56 And I think as business owners, this is a common element to the journey, right? I think it's what prevents us from getting out of the self-employed status. I think this stuff makes it hard to get past that if you're a restorer, you get to 3, 5, 6 million and then there's this new... push that demands a lot different tool set. And so this year, it's like, I feel like we're being approached by the things that give me the most excitement. And I think what I'm trying to understand is, is it okay for me, us to move into these positions faster than what the kind of startup mentality would require from us, if this is making sense?

25:39 So let me try to make it less cryptic. Floodlight is a young company. We have a lot of infrastructure and things. This year was an infrastructure year. Holy cow. Big lift this year, which we're totally excited and exhausted about. But we did that because when Chris and I started Floodlight, we never wanted to be self-employed. That we don't have any interest in being a slave to our own business. We've always wanted to build a business as a business. And this was our first year, I think, where we felt the most friction in that process and got over it. And fortunately, Wayne, for any of us that has listened to the show more than once, you've probably heard his name.

26:20 We are equally thankful for everyone on our team and the role that they have. Wayne has played a special lift in the company because of his specific skill set, and It changed a lot for us and it helped us do this year what we need to do and it'll continue to elevate the team. Okay. All that to be said, if you look, I'm trying to find the balance here of total transparency and then what is distracting. If you look at fundamentally how we manage our business, we definitely did some pre-spending and that's part of the plan. That's how it goes. And I think sometimes I get around business leaders and I hear them talk and it's like they can have no wanes and do all the things and still somehow have the fuel in their tank to do these other things that they're excited about, motivated to do.

27:12 And they have this interesting relationship to the business where they're in the weeds and out of the weeds simultaneously. And I've just found this year, that ain't me, babe. Yeah. Like, I ain't going to do that. I can't. And so what I've found myself doing is pre-investing, moving out of certain functions faster than probably somebody might say to invest And then I get this dumb mental gymnastics I begin doing in my mind is, well, then am I even bringing the value to the company that I should be if I'm not doing XYZ responsibility? And that's what I've been wrestling this year. It's like, I hire a guy like Wayne who just freaking straight up kicks ass in his responsibilities.

27:54 And at times really does most of them better than I can do them anyways. And then somehow I'll sit in on a Saturday morning and over process the fact that I got a guy like that on my team. And then I'm asking myself, where should my attention go? Well, F me. That's what I hired him in the first place for. So why I'm doing those mental gymnastics, I really don't understand it. I don't know if this is making any. It makes perfect sense. So I think underneath all of that. One of the ways that we're evaluating opportunities, we had a really key opportunity earlier this year that we took a lot of forward steps on to vet that opportunity. We were looking at essentially acquiring another business unit for Floodlight. And both of us stepped back.

28:35 We had a conversation. I remember we're in our studio here. There's another little office adjacent to Brandon and I's offices in our building space here. And I remember standing there and we both just looked at each other and we're like, you know, does this feel right? What we're about to do. Because it's going to have this element and it's going to have this element. And we're going to have to really lean hard into these two things. Is that really what you want to do? And both of us just said no. And we walked away from that. Unfortunately, we didn't have to put a bunch of capital into the exploration of it. We got out before we got too far in, which you can't always do. Sometimes you got to spend money to figure that out. But then right now we're evaluating a couple opportunities and...

29:16 I think inevitably we're going to make the same judgment, right? Is what this is going to require of us, something we feel motivated and inspired to do. Like what are the heaviest investments we're going to have to make into these things to make it work and to make it pay? And do we want to do a ton of that? You know, because for Brandon and I, are we money motivated? 100%. Of course, of course we are. I think you can't be in business and at least have, not have that as part of your motivation. Yeah, of course. Right. Not doing it for free. But at the same time, we've also agreed philosophically and I think emotionally that neither one of us wants to sacrifice our now life.

29:56 Yeah. Yeah. For the promise of building an empire someday. Yep. We're not willing to sacrifice the now for the tomorrow empire. Because of course, all of us, I think on this call, have experienced some state of unexpected loss. Like enough to realize there ain't no guarantee that we're going to get to the 10-year mark when our pro forma looks like this and our driveway looks full of that. Right? It's like... We don't know. And so it's really important for Brandon and I to try to find that balance to do that dance of, okay, just how much of our current life and our life force are we willing to give to that thing? And so part of the judgment is what am I good at and what do I enjoy?

30:36 I think it's kind of the filter that we've been learning to apply where it's like, okay, I could do that. I could figure out how... Like, here's one example for me. And some people are going to be like, wow, Nordyke, that's really foolish of you, bro. Heavy. Like, here's what I've learned about myself in my 40s. Here's what I've started learning about myself. I have a couple of really close buddies that are really into real estate. And they're really good at it. You know, they mortgaged their house to buy a duplex 15 years ago. And then they 1031'd that duplex into an eightplex and then bought another thing. And then they got some hard money and they figured out that game. And now they've got...

31:17 25 units or 100 units. One of my buddies has done 150 flips in the last 10 years. And he's been extraordinarily successful. And there's a part of me that's like, I need to freaking get on that bandwagon. I need to go leverage some money, go find one of my buddy's hard money lenders, go do this. And then my wife and I will do this in the evenings and weekends. And then I'll have my kids kind of manage the rental portfolio and all this stuff. And you know what I figured out? And I've finally been able to be honest with myself is I have no freaking desire to do that. Not only do I not want to spend my life in little spreadsheets and P&Ls for all my little properties and see where my debt service is at and when I should refi, like I just don't want to do that.

32:04 I don't want to make money that way. Now, the exception to that would be as Brandon and I, as some of our business ventures and stuff are playing out, will I eventually maybe own some real estate and have a management company do that stuff? Probably. Yeah. You know, it's like one of those smart things you put money into. Yeah. But I just realized I'm not that guy. And I have, I guess, depending on how you look at it, I've probably left a lot of money on the table. I'm probably behind in some of my investment goals than some of my buddies are that have taken that path. But I've just realized for me, I prefer to build and run service companies. And I also have certain things that I'm really extraordinarily good at in running a business or participating in a business.

32:46 The other thing that Brandon and I think collectively have learned is neither one of us wants to be a solo entrepreneur. And I've tried that previously in my time. I've had three or four LLCs in my life, a couple of which have been more successful than others where I've been the guy, the single owner, and I'm just not at my best. And there's a lot of risks with the business partnership. We've seen some ones that haven't played out very well. All of us have seen business partnerships that fail and crash and burn. And I think Brandon and I feel really lucky. We have enough of a, he and I are different enough And alike enough that it's really worked well. We have friction.

33:26 We have hard stuff we got to deal with every now and then. But I think both of us just recognize that we're better together. And both of us function better in a team ownership type of thing. Both of us, because you've had your own companies before too. And it's like, so all of these things I think boil down to, I'm starting to learn to be more honest with myself. And I'm finding freedom and I'm also finding energy in that. When I stop posing and pretending, when I can just lay down, you know what? I'm not going to get into the whole real estate flip thing. And I'm not going to listen to Deeper Pockets on iTunes every freaking week. And I'm not going to freaking learn and read all the books about real estate investing because I just don't want to do it.

34:09 And I never have, it's never captivated me. And I have these other things that captivate me that it turns out I'm pretty good at. And what happens if I dump all my fuel into that fire? I think the money will eventually follow the way I want it to, right? Yeah. I agree. And I'm with you on the real estate because I've had people also like, Michelle, you start investing and doing real estate stuff. And I am like, that sounds like the worst. I would hate that. I don't even like I am not ever. I also believe in even with in the world of investing slow and steady wins the race. I believe that, you know, in some ways you can end up in the same place down the road if you are faithful in your investing in yourself and smart about it.

34:50 So, whole bunch of cash all at once, but I'm risk averse when it comes to money. So I've kind of also been like that in my business. But I want to go back to what you were talking about too, about feeling okay to remove yourself from certain roles as being a business owner. I tends to get in our heads so much and feel like we let society dictate what we can or should or should not do so much. Right. And business owners are prone to feeling guilty when it's like, well, I feel like I should be doing that. I felt that way about hiring Lauren as our editor and feeling like, well, I should be doing all that tutorial.

35:34 I should be doing all of this, but she's way better at it. Like, you know, and that's, you know, with Wayne, I know Wayne and he is very talented and These people come in and are meant to be in these roles. And so I think the faster we can fire ourselves from certain roles in our businesses, the better we're going to be able to focus on the areas that we excel and can help it grow. And none of us should be caught in the weeds of business. certain things anyway. So the more we can let society not dictate how our businesses should grow, I think both of us probably you so more so than me have felt probably more fuel in the first few years than maybe normal businesses feel.

36:17 And so we have had that rocket fuel that's kind of helped us launch and get going. And that does require, I think, faster evolution into being a I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. So you just have to ride the rocket and figure it out as you go and fall off. I don't know. Yeah. I think you're spot on. One of the things I feel like that's been really front and center kind of related to what you're talking about is for most of my life, I've wrestled with this... identity of jack of all trades. And the reason I just started to come to terms with it is that almost everything that I've done, I have this really rapid ascension through several ranks.

37:06 And I get past the hack and I get past the doing it because you have to stage of development. And I begin to actually understand the core competencies and how to leverage, let's say, certain tool sets or certain perspectives in my favor to do that role. And I've been that way my whole life. And yet, most of the time, if I stay... too narrow in terms of what that role is requiring from me, I eventually hit a wall where my motivation level or like the attractive driver for me to this nuance of that type of role and that core function and responsibility begins to wane.

37:48 And now all of a sudden I'm looking at it and I start getting bored. I don't want to give the level of attention it takes to go to the next 10,000 hours of competency. And I've wrestled with that my whole career. I skyrocket into recognition. I skyrocket into certain levels of responsibility. And then it begins to taper off. And 99% of the time. It's because I'm a starter by nature. And so then I just get into this cycle where it really requires the consistency and I began to falter. And for most of my life, that thing that I've recognized about myself has always kind of been seen quietly behind the scenes from me as a weakness.

38:31 And one of the things that I've found, and again, I don't know that I would stand up and beat my chest about it yet, but I'm starting to get really comfortable with the fact that it's my natural bend towards being a jack of all trades that actually helps me build teams. Because I will learn enough about each role to be dangerous. And so then I begin to get a pretty clear understanding of what it takes for somebody to be the 20,000-hour person in that role or function. And I think now, and again, this is at such... a baby stage that I can't say it with a lot of confidence yet.

39:12 But it's this combination of, I get really excited about the launch. I'm comfortable with the fact that my jack of all trades syndrome, it allows me to have a deeper understanding of a wide breadth of skills and talents. Yeah. And then finally... If I can roll that in to trusting myself to only do the things I'm excited about, I feel like that is the superpower. Yep. But I struggle to walk in the door with that in the toolkit, just being honest about it. Yeah, dude, I've got an external view for you on that because I hear what you're saying and I've seen you leaning into that this year.

39:54 Mm-hmm. And what I've seen you do is you're leveraging that ability to quickly learn and skill up in a particular way. Just enough that you can delegate well and then move on to the new thing. And that is a superpower to be able to learn. I mean, I think it's the speed at which you're able to learn and apply yourself, the drive that you have to get excited, to put a ton of energy behind a certain thing, to get it to this point where, as an example, you can hand it off to Wayne with enough clarity and vision that then Wayne can run full bore with that thing. And I feel like I've seen you do that really throughout our relationship in different types of roles.

40:35 But I agree. Like that is one of your superpowers is that ability to skill up quickly and then recognize when you're skilled up to the point where you can hand it off effectively to somebody. Yeah. And then you get to go chase the new start. Yeah. Yeah. Which of course we've had lots of new starts, you know, lots, a lot of just kind of this unfolding of growth and opportunity with this company, but it's, but it's only really accelerated as we've been able to grow the team. Yeah. Right. And allow the team to start to take some of that vision to run with it. Yeah. Liftify.com forward slash bloodlight. You've heard Brandon and I talk a bunch of times about the importance of Google reviews. Maybe you even heard our episode with Zach Garrett, the CEO and founder.

41:18 Recency, consistency, two of the most important things when it comes to maximizing the benefit from your Google reviews. Why not use an outside partner? Liftify is targeting 20 to 25% conversion, right? So if you do a thousand jobs a year, you ought to be adding right now, 200 to 250 reviews a year, every single year. If you're not doing that, you owe it to yourself to get a free demo from liftify.com. See their system, see how it works, see how affordable it is. I promise you, you'll thank us. Liftify.com forward slash blood light. You know, we spend a lot of money and a lot of attention trying to get that first call. And one of the things that we do once it happens is sometimes we leave it to chance, right?

42:00 Who picks up the phone? How do they respond? How do they walk that client into a relationship with us? Well, one of the benefits of partnering with a team like AnswerForce.com is we can systemize that. We can make it more consistent. We can also have backup for when our teams need that help, right? Somebody goes on vacation. Somebody's out sick. We get a storm surge. We get cat event. All sorts of things can have an impact on how we receive that client. But the most important thing is they need to know that they've chosen the right team. And so answerforce.com can support you, be a bolt on partner to help you consistently produce an awesome onboarding experience with that first call with your client. So answerforce.com forward slash answerforce.com.

42:41 blood light. That's great. CNR Magazine, we're friends with all the folks at CNR. Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry. Right? You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. Right? She's got that. Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Right? CNR is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. Right? It is the water cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine.com. Follow them on LinkedIn. Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us. If you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine.com.

43:27 You guys, many of you have already heard about actionable insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry. But how many of you are already leveraging the actionable insights profile for Xactimate? That's the game changer. It's essentially an AI tool that's walking alongside of you as you write your estimate, bringing things to your attention that should be added, that could be considered. All of them items that increase our profitability, increase the effectiveness and the consistency of that scope. And it can do anything from helping a new team member assimilate some estimating best practices. And it also helps the grizzled vets add back that few percent that we've just forgot over time.

44:10 So Actionable Insights, get insights.org forward slash floodlight and take a look at what the Actionable Insights Exactimate profile could be doing for you and your team. Okay, so I have a question along these lines of like year in review. Any behaviors, specific behaviors that you've decided to change this past year? or are in the middle of changing. And I'm going to talk about one. I'll throw one out here that's been more recent for Brandon and I. So we joked about, we joked about, I can't remember if we were recording yet or not when we said this, but Brandon, this seems kind of funny. So I'll open it up lighthearted thing. But Brandon and I have been working on using better language.

44:55 Oh yeah. That's the most recent. We had, we had a conference we spoke at two months ago, maybe two and a half months ago. I don't know, late, late summer, September, October. Anyways. Oh yeah. And one of our friends was there who's a fairly prominent industry leader. And I had a sidebar conversation with her. So Brandon and I were essentially running this full two-day workshop at this conference. And so we had lots of front stage time and... And we were using a fairly regular cadence of salty language, which I think up to this, it's really interesting, my history with cussing, because I grew up in a very sort of Southern Baptist kind of... Yeah.

45:37 Okay. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah. Not full cussing. I love them. We all come from somewhere. So I grew up in a real churchy environment where cussing was very much kind of categorized as a sin, if you will, and unwholesome talk, right? For the most part, I didn't really cuss until I got into the restoration industry. And I think part of it was a desire to sort of connect with my peoples and just kind of fit in with the culture. And part of it was I just sort of started to enjoy the saltiness. And that just carried on. And now it's been, I don't know, going on 10, 12 years or whatever.

46:20 So fast forward to this conference, and I'm having this sidebar conversation with this industry leader. And I said, hey, just get honest feedback. How have you felt about the workshop so far? What do you think about the content? She's like, oh man, it's really great. She said, the only thing that really detracts is just how much cursing you guys are doing. I was like, okay. And I knew she was mostly talking about Brandon. And so I wasn't as offended. Wow. Right under the bus there. Perfect. That was awesome. And he may not be wrong. I couldn't resist that. Brandon is deaf. I mean, he has army background too on top of all this. They have like nine words that they use repeatedly. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. And eight of them are the other words.

47:02 So anyway, I took that feedback to Brandon and we joked about it. And then we modulated our language for the remainder of that. And it was great. And she felt better about the delivery. But that stuck with me. So then we had another conference we were at and some salt came out in our conversation. And we actually got a text message from our friend in this particular group. And he's like, hey, listen, you guys are not boring. And that's the worst sin. So you're good. Like everything's good. But can we dial back... the language. And so finally, Brandon and I coming out of that, we, yeah, we just had a decision to make. And here's where we landed. Cause I think it's, I've given a lot of thought to this. And one of the things is we have a whole new class of consultants that are a new floodlight consultants are coming in January to headquarters.

47:48 And I've been assigned to give sort of a brand values talk to this group as our company president. And I was thinking about this a lot. Here's why I've landed on the whole cursing thing. I think for me, I think it's entirely possible for a person of character to use salty language. Like, I think when I grew up, it was just sort of arbitrarily seen as bad. People that use cuss words, it's bad, you know? And I think now I'm in a different place where it's like, no, I know plenty of people of character that use salty language. But here's the thing I have noticed. And where I think the character comes in. I think that it's our responsibility as leaders to know what room we're in and who our audience is.

48:32 Yeah. And I think the sign of character is knowing where you're at and who you're talking to. And the way that they need to be spoken to. And I think that's the error I think that Brandon and I have made at times with perhaps the podcast. Now, we're not saying that the podcast is all of a sudden not going to have an explicit rating like it does. But I think context is everything as a leader and just as a person. That character is really a function of understanding who we're with and what the room needs from us. And so I think there's character and I think there's style. And I think it's possible to have a style that maybe uses curse words selectively.

49:13 That's part of your style. And you modulate that style based on the situation and the people you're around. You know, and so I think for us at Floodlight, this is kind of a value that's emerging. It's taken us a while to figure it out, you know. But I think as a company, what we're starting to lean towards is... is that when we're on stage or we're in some kind of public forum in media, we're not going to curse. And then when we're with people one-to-one or in small groups or in a private setting, I think probably from a character standpoint, the best move is to follow people's style Whereas if I'm with somebody and they use the F word or they use the S word or they say, you know, some other phrase that might be uncomfortable for other people, right?

50:00 They lead with that. Well, then I can follow that and I can try to match their style. I think that's how we relate to one another a lot of times, right? Not to say somebody has to cuss in order to make friends. But to me, that seems from a character standpoint, like the best policy is company is... Okay, we're going to follow other people's style in a personal context, but when it's public, we're going to restrain our language, right? So as not to offend, because I think the thing we want to avoid is we want to avoid missing out on relationships that we otherwise might had because we led with the wrong style. Yeah, I think that's good. You know, we offended before we ever had a chance to cultivate relationship. I don't ever want to do that.

50:40 I don't ever want to sacrifice a potentially awesome relationship because I feel a need to drop F-bombs, right? That's been a thing, you know? And it's forced me just to think about character, but like beyond just cussing. It's like, okay, what about other mannerisms and things I might choose to talk to one-on-one or talk about one-on-one with somebody? I don't want that to prevent me from a relationship or an opportunity or the ability to help somebody Because I've offended them before I ever had a chance to create relationship, you know? How about you, Michelle? Anything you're iterating this year that's just you found profoundly important?

51:20 Mine's been learning to say no. You know, I get a lot of the comments of, wow, you're everywhere. Wow, you must travel a lot. Wow, you do all these things, blah, blah, blah. And you guys are the same way. You travel a lot and attend a lot of events. And the first two years of startup mode, you kind of have to, right? You need to be everywhere. You need to have your face as many places as possible. And then I think you get to a point where it's like, okay, for one, I kind of just burned myself out. It was just too much. And I was trying to be everything to everyone. You know, I have found, especially like in the realm of speaking, I really enjoy leading panels. I love leading panel discussions. I do not love being the person that's up on the stage as the expert.

52:01 I actually don't consider myself an industry expert. I consider myself the intermediary to help other people be the experts. I want to elevate the experts that are in the industry and help give them the stage so that their voices can. Like you two are a great example. Your voices can be heard. I do not consider myself an expert. I'm a connector of people. That's my role. That's CNR's role. CNR is just a vehicle to help share knowledge. I'm grateful that I get a lot of invites to a lot of events and a lot of invites to speak. I just got one a few weeks ago, actually, that was to an event that I had been wanting to attend and was looking forward to being part of for a long time. And it happened to come at the events a couple of days after I come back from an international trip with my MBA.

52:46 And I had to say no. And I was disappointed about that. And it's learning to trust that. even when I need to say no to things that I do think are for me and that excite me, those opportunities will come back around if they really are meant for me. A lot of opportunities aren't like this one time it's like you do it now or never. Some are, and then you just need to do them then. But, you know, industry events and speaking and things like that, those opportunities will probably come again. And so it is learning to, you know, I think especially because I have little kids and I appreciated what you were saying earlier about like not wanting to give up your life now to have that empire later.

53:28 Like let's find the balance in this as we go and not just sacrifice ourselves to our businesses and miss our families. And so my big goal right now is to be as present for my kids and my family as I possibly can be. And I'm just learning to grow, better manage my time so that I don't feel like I've, I went through a period where I felt like I gave almost everything that I had to the industry and had nothing left. And I love the industry. And so I love doing that. It was just, this year was just difficult, I think. And there was a lot that happened and it was a slow year for restorers, a slow year for a lot of the vendors. It just was a difficult year going through my MBA at the same time.

54:08 And, you know, it just, It was a lot. So, but learning to say no and having the feeling like I'm giving myself permission to say no when I've really evaluated an opportunity and whether or not it's right for us is great. And I'm looking forward to further learning building up my team and them being able to go without me to events. We're very close to that happening. I'm really hoping that Lauren, our editor, will start doing some podcasting or something like that herself because I need to not be the only voice that's coming out of CNR. Just like you guys have, some of your consultants also kind of have their voices out and about, whether it's Scott or Mike or whatever. Wayne has some voice as well.

54:50 That is so key and so important. So it's one saying no, so that I'm not spread so thin that I have nothing left. And to finding those opportunities and trying to bring my team more into the fold so that they're going to also become more recognized in the industry. I think. Tasha, who does sales and is our production manager, I think she is getting pretty close to that. There are a lot of people that recognize her and ask about her if she doesn't come to a show with me. Learning to say no is critical. I remind myself, which also kind of goes back to some comments you made earlier, I remind myself often that my kids are only little for a little while. And I'm not going to say no.

55:31 you know, a decade from now, I'm going to have all the time that I want to pour into my business and to keep growing it or diversifying or acquiring or whatever. And so it has been trying to figure out what is my goal with the business now? And also realizing that those things change, right? Because you're... Your reason for owning a business today might change tomorrow. Like I don't plan to sell the business anytime soon. So that's not why I own it. I'm not going in it to sell it or make money that way. But I am in it to provide a steady life for my family and to be able to pick my kids up every single day at three unless I'm traveling and to take them to school every morning and not have to miss...

56:12 anything. I don't miss sporting events. I don't, that was actually something kind of talking about this saying no, something that I learned in the orientation with my MBA. We started talking about, which I think you guys, I think we talked about this together on another podcast we did maybe last year, but having hard boundaries. And one of the boundaries I had set with my MBA team was I don't miss LeBas hockey games. Those are important to me. That's good family time. I don't miss that. And just having those non-negotiables is what we call them. Setting non-negotiables for yourself and then allowing yourself to hold on to those, I think can be so valuable. So that's like my one non-negotiable that I have.

56:56 And but then I never felt guilty because I didn't have to miss a game. And I also my team, the expectations were set and I didn't miss that much at all because of the hockey games. But no one felt bad. It just was what it was. And everybody understood. It's the same being a leader with your team, right? I'm sure that you have non-negotiables with your team that you were used to have set boundaries, whether it's like. this nice date night or I'm whatever you can't, I'm not going to be around. I'm going to work out at this time in the morning and don't plan to be able to get ahold of me unless something's on fire in that hour or whatever it is. But having those non-negotiables, I think is so vital as, especially a business owner. Otherwise you're just open to getting burned out.

57:37 You know, it's funny. I don't know if you've noticed this too, Michelle, is do you see that the more diligent you are at mapping out the non-negotiables that you actually end up getting everything done that you needed to in the timeframe that you've allotted yourself? Yes. I'm way more efficient and way better at getting stuff done now that I have like, I've actually considerably shortened my work hours this year and the time that I'm like in the office. That's not to say that I am the type that will like shoot back an email at a random time if I have time, if it's not taking away from something, but I still get everything done and then some and it's fine. it's that whole freedom and discipline thing. Like sometimes I look at my own schedule, my own calendar, and it kind of makes me want to throw up because every day, I mean, there's color on just about every free spot on that calendar.

58:28 And though, you know, the advantage of it is, is like I actually don't work a ton after, you know, 5 p.m. I do. I still think. I still process. I still consider the business. And if we got to talk to a team member or late night, yeah, I'll catch myself. I do still get some emails. I do. You know, 4.30 a.m. in the morning. I do. I am a morning guy. That's when it's really no holds barred. But... I have found this year that I've gotten an unbelievable amount of work done. During the day, during the work day, because I started this year and said, I'm not going to blow up my family this year.

59:08 Like, I'm not going to not be home. I'm not going to screw around with the... Good job. That was a slow catch. I'm not going to screw around with my relationship with my wife or my kids because... You know, it's like that talk several years ago. Like I won't be surrounded by nameplates of the business. I won't have a bunch of employees in my room in the hospital. I'm not going to have the truck I like. It's hopefully there's some humans in there that I'm related to. And I didn't crap all over that because I just kept punting them and their needs because I was building our business.

59:49 You know what I mean? And yeah. And man, I got to tell you, as hard as things have been in the business this year and life always has stuff at home with your kids and your family, I haven't felt bad about the way I conducted myself this year. And that helps a lot. Even just dealing with life's challenges, when I don't have that thing over my left shoulder that tells me I'm failing miserably at home in my home relationships, it's like I tend to have a lot more wherewithal to deal with the bullshit that comes with the business and life because I'm like... Hey, I've got some concrete foundation set and that's my family. And you just kind of iterate and go with the punches sometimes when it comes to the business. But I feel like I've had a lot more stability because I prioritized that this year.

1:00:34 And Chris and I were very intentional about that when we started Floodby. And he has to remind me like, hey, we're not blowing this up, right? Mid-route. Like we said we were going to be convicted about this. And it's been surprisingly... I don't want to say easy, but it's been surprisingly simple to do, believe it or not, as we booted up Floodlight. I think part of it is what you realize is just how much ego is involved with burning the candle at both ends. There's a lot of ego in not certainly not our industry, but just in the whole startup kind of environment. around sleeping at the office and blowing up your marriage for the sake of your startup.

1:01:18 And of course, I don't think anybody actually looks at that admiringly. It's just a lot of it's just jealousy. It's just the greed. It's the money that causes us to... accept that culture. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, and I think unfortunately, like Dave Ramsey, you know, gets co-opted, I think, in this kind of entrepreneurial culture where it's like, do what other people are unwilling to do so you can live like how others are unable to later on. That's this sort of thing. Like, you know, deny yourself now and, you know, nose to the grindstone, work harder than anybody else now so you can live better than them, blah, blah, blah.

1:02:00 And I think most people realize that, well, one, sometimes it just doesn't work out. Just because you're working your ass off doesn't mean you're going to be a multimillionaire. It can still blow up. And then it blows up and you don't have your family either. You know, and it's like, okay, well, if I can get past my ego... and my own sense of greed. I think it's possible to do a lot of productivity during the day in just an eight to five grind, so to speak, if I'm serious about it, if I'm committed to that. Like you talked about, I mean, holy cow, MBA, hockey, small children, marriage, and publishing business. And you found in many ways, you're more productive when you create space for all those other things Partly because you have to be.

1:02:45 Yeah. And I've found some of that as well. I do have one curious thing though for you, Michelle, because I know so much of your work is creative work, whether it's selling ads, sales conversations, or creative work, right? As well as magazine layouts and giving your opinion on stuff. Well, one thing I've struggled with this year, because we've had this theme of kind of overcoming and like insights and realization and positive change. Well, one thing that I'm thinking about for this coming year, is a lot of the work I do is very creative in nature. I tend to have less task-oriented things as a part of the lion's share of my work and more creative production that I end up doing, whether it be designing talks or creating content and things of that sort.

1:03:29 And I found it very hard to organize myself by time blocks and planned work sessions. Yeah. Because it's possible. And I've heard writers talk about this. And I think part of it's discipline that I need to cultivate. Because I sit down to say record a training module for one of our master courses or something. The team is counting on me to get it done by a certain date. Right? So we can have production schedules and project management within our company. It's very important. And oftentimes I arrive to that time block and I'm just either not in the right headspace I had a difficult interaction with my wife or my kids and I'm still like my head, my head just isn't right for the creative work.

1:04:12 And I stew and I spin my wheels and I might spend three hours and get nothing out of it. You know, I've had a number of nights here at the office where I'll get like, I've had a few Fridays this year where I'll get to six o'clock and I'm texting my wife. I'm like, I've got one more video. It's a four minute video I need to do. I'll be home as soon. And then at seven o'clock I'm texting her, honey, I'm still working on it. And then eight o'clock rolls around. I just can't. Sometimes I nail it in the 11th hour. And then other times I'm like, ah, crap. I just got to cut the cord and come in tomorrow. Like, have you learned a way, have you been able to overcome this? And do you have any tips for that of how to deal with creative work?

1:04:54 And I think for business owners listening to this, there's a lot of creative aspects to running a restoration company. It's your vision time. Yeah, it's vision time. It's strategic planning time. It's thinking about your marketing, your sales, like where, how are we going to grow? Like all this kind of stuff. How do you manage that, Michelle, in such a creative business? Yeah. Great question. I am 1000% a procrastinator by trade, by trade, literally like I could own a business in procrastination, which doesn't serve well for MBA or publishing. What I have found is that I am well intentioned and I will try to start, I use motion as kind of like to block out my time a little bit, which does work really well for me.

1:05:37 And it keeps me within the work hours that I want to be And we'll redistribute something if I ended up not getting it done that day. And you can put hard deadlines in there. So if it redistributes it for you a couple times, but there's a hard deadline, eventually it's going to be like, hey, you have to get this done. I have found that once I'm up against a hard deadline, I can get stuff done. And that is usually where I'm the most creative. I seem to need that definitive hard deadline for the creative stuff to actually be there. But something that I also learned really early in my career, I guess, in journalism itself, I read Sheryl Sandberg's book from Facebook, and she had said, done is better than perfect sometimes. And I...

1:06:17 All of us, I know all of us want things to be perfect, but I also remind myself that the outside doesn't necessarily know the bar you've set for yourself in this project. They don't know how in your brain you intentioned this to be. So from the outside, this could be high quality and look perfect. To you, it might not be, but it might be done and you probably did it well. Yeah. So I've learned to accept like sometimes done is better than perfect. It depends on what it is, but some things just don't need to be. We can't make everything perfect. It's not possible. And so I've had to learn that with myself. I started to back when I first got into the industry, another publication, right?

1:07:01 I struggled when I would put out a magazine that I didn't feel like was as good as the one before. Well, it's impossible to have a better magazine than the one before every single time. That is completely impossible. There's going to be some rock stars every year and there are going to be some others that are going to be good and they're going to have some good content. But it's just, you know, not every issue is the state of the industry issue. Not every issue is the RIA show issue that has awards in it or whatever it may be. So, you know, it just is learning that sometimes done is better than perfect. If you can get your message across, not everything has to be a slam dunk. And so that is what I have had to teach myself. And I've also kind of...

1:07:42 I've kind of tried to lead my team in that as well because the world moves so fast now and we have to put out so much content so quickly that we obviously have really high standards and also like ethical lines and making sure that things are read by the appropriate people, especially if it's technical and it needs vetting or whatever that may be. So we have really high standards, but we also just at some point like, okay, we're there. Like, yeah. It's okay. It's okay now. So maybe it goes along with that no, the learning how to say no and learning to let things be okay and not be perfect in my eyes, because from the outside, it probably looks great to everybody else.

1:08:25 It probably does. We all have very high standards. So not letting myself get stuck in the weeds. That was also something I learned early with my MBA group is I am because I'm a creative thinker. So I in my MBA little like cohort group, there's five of us, including myself. So I'm the creative one. And then I have an accountant. Yeah. an engineer, a supply chain and purchaser in the auto industry, and like a manufacturing, lean manufacturing instructor. And there's me. Yes, it was the odd one out in the group in every single freaking conversation. Holy crap. And so, yes. So my way of thinking, I didn't realize how different my way of thinking was in business and in many situations until getting into my MBA and starting to work with this group.

1:09:13 And the way that I approached projects and all of everything was very different. My thought processes are very different. But that was a good lesson for me to also, because I would kind of get into the weeds or I would get a little like, a buy idea is a good one. I know that you guys don't think that way, but I also don't work at Ford. I don't work at the Tigers. One guy was an accountant for the Tigers at first and now he works for the big energy company in Michigan. And Johnson Control is an international company. They all work for these massive companies. I'm over here with this little business owner by myself. Like... So, I don't know. It's learning to just take it in stride.

1:09:54 And I've learned a lot from them. And they had to learn to trust me because my thinking was so different. And I had to learn to trust them because their thinking was different. And maybe like you guys, I... Because my experience has been pretty narrow as far as business goes, because it's been publishing and journalism. It's not often that I, or it's restoration. Like, I'm not in conversations with people outside of restoration very often. So I'm very thankful for the fuel that that has given me. I bet. That really went off track from the original question. But... That's awesome. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Okay. All right. Question for you guys, because I'm just thinking, okay, going into next year, right?

1:10:36 I just like taking at least a couple minutes to think about what's the priority going to be? What's kind of the main shift maybe that we're focused on? So for you, Chris, and then I want you to answer, Michelle, if you're willing to do so. Going into next year, what's... What's the thing? So outside of the generic business acumen, you know, that we have to continue to iterate on and take in, what are you kind of keyed in as something pretty specific and different going into 2025? Yeah. Well, for me, you know, this last year, really the last few years, discipline has been such a key theme in my life. You always wish you could accomplish more or you could change more in a shorter period of time.

1:11:17 But the reality is I'm getting to the end of this year and I can see certain areas of my life where I've exercised really great discipline and some new areas where I've allowed, I've been able to kind of, create more discipline in. And then of course, the other thing is you start to see in stark contrast all the areas that you're very undisciplined and a total mess. So I think for me, discipline is another key theme in particular with my office time. Like I just talked about the creative development and stuff like that. I do need to work on complete versus perfect. You know, I think that's a, that's a thing I need to lean into and exercise more is output.

1:11:59 Yeah. rather than getting things exactly the way I want them. And again, a big part of that's ego I'm starting to recognize. Like I, for example, I submitted an article to you, Michelle, one time. And you looked at it. You're like, oh, man, this is so good. I was just like... And it connected with you, this article. And in the back of my mind, I thought it was dog shit. And... So, and so, right. Like I wasn't feeling good about it. Like, ah, God, I feel like I just kind of threw this together. I wasn't feeling great about it. I was having trouble getting my ideas all clarified. And then it was good for you. Like you read it without all of that stuff. And you're like, oh, this totally connects with me. I was thinking about the same thing or processing a similar thing.

1:12:40 So I think I need to work on that, but discipline around how I use my time between eight and five. is just a growing edge for me. Because again, I believe, and I've had moments where, like I found, if I can just be deliberate with that, I don't need to work till eight o'clock. You know? So that's a growing edge for me. And the other thing too, for this next year is, I just realized that the quality of my marriage has such a overflow effect on the rest of my life that it's a thing that I've invested pretty heavily in in the last couple of years. But I just, I realized that there's certain things that I'm unsatisfied with. And I know my wife is too. Like there's just certain aspects of our relationship.

1:13:22 We married 20, it'll be 23 years in March that I'm unhappy with. And I think our tendency is, especially as you get older, is just to suppress, just to kind of push those things down or dismiss those things that aren't quite working. It's like, well, it's good enough or meh, you know, at some point we'll figure that out. And I'm just realizing that if I can invest in the difficult conversations and that kind of stuff, it always has this positive downstream effect in the other areas of my life. And when I'm ignoring or not dealing with certain aspects of my marriage relationship with my wife and she's not with me and all the things, it also has a downstream effect on the other areas and relationships in my life.

1:14:05 And so those are the two things I'm kind of keyed in on outside of just professional skill development and whatever, because I think they have the most kind of far-reaching impact on the other areas, you know? Yeah, they're exponential. What about you? I think that discipline comment is interesting because I do think that we go through phases in life where the discipline is really good, especially in some areas. And then we go through other phases of life where it just isn't quite there. And I don't know why that is. Sometimes I think it's like God nudging me to focus on something else. Like I've been really disciplined in this and. We can't be disciplined in everything, right? So where are our priorities? Priorities are constantly shifting. Even if it is within our families, like you were just saying, Chris, you know, if you're focusing on your marriage specifically or a specific area of your marriage, even if you get more specific, discipline is something really interesting.

1:14:53 And the more that I have learned to give myself grace to be human, the better I feel like I've been able to meet those problems and find things. the right discipline, which seems counterintuitive. But I think all three of us are probably people that are pretty hard on ourselves and have pretty high standards for ourselves. And the more I allow myself to say, it's okay that you didn't kill it today because you still tried and you're still going to get it done and it's still going to be okay. And work is still going to be there tomorrow or whatever that may be. Okay. So I'm going to say, To actually answer your question, so I try to pick a word every year that I feel like God has put on my heart and it's like, that's what my word is going to be for the year.

1:15:40 So a couple of years ago, the word that God had given me was abundance. That was for 2023. And that was that word abundance. really played out in everything because I didn't mean it even in financial sense. I meant it abundance in relationships, abundance in love and connection with my family and abundance of opportunities. And it did pan out in probably every aspect of the word. And so then this year, going into it without knowing what the year held, intentionality was. the word. And this year took every ounce of intentionality that I had. This was like, if I'm going to be really honest, like this was not a great year.

1:16:21 It was actually a very, very difficult year. And in a lot of ways, like personal, professional, it was just a very difficult year. that played out. The intentionality played out and the goals, especially in business, I guess, that we had made, which has to do with systems and processes. I know that the three of us have talked about that. That is how we're ending the year. We did get there, which is so interesting. Like those words were put on my heart before I knew what the year was going to turn out to be and that is exactly what I needed for the year. Looking ahead to 2025, I haven't totally landed on my word yet, but it's somewhere in the realm of peace, joy, somewhere in there. Kind of going out of this year with more open hands, letting things go a little bit more in an intentional way and just knowing that the business is going to continue to grow and that I don't have to go through it like this.

1:17:14 worried that it's going to go away tomorrow because it's not and it's going to be okay. And trusting myself, trusting the team leaning more into my family and being more intentional with those work hours like we've talked about. So somewhere in that realm, I'm looking forward to being done with my MBA. Had I known the year that I was going to have adding an MBA and there was not a good idea. We're building a house. That was also probably not a good idea. Plus two small children. I don't really make good life choices is what it's come down to. So I am very much. Don't go out and buy a puppy. That's all I can say. Oh my gosh. Absolutely not. So I don't make great life choices. So in 2025, I am striving for something that is less wrecking on my entire nervous system.

1:17:57 How about that? That's smart. You know, I think one of the things that I found myself leaning into towards the end of this year, and I don't even say it was leaning into, it was actually probably being pulled out of me. And that is, I just have to do, I want to be a better person. equipping leader. You made a comment earlier about casting clarity around where we're going and what we're doing. And the reality of it is when you said that out loud, it was kind of a gut check for me because I actually don't fully agree with you. I think this year I was way more reactionary than I wanted inside the business. And... Part of that for people that don't know, I still carry my own client book.

1:18:39 And in fact, it's a pretty robust client book. And so it's not for the weak. And that takes up a substantial part of my life, professional life. And yet I have aspirations not only to scale floodlight at the pace that we're intending to, but we also, again, have other opportunities that from our entrepreneurial DNA make a lot of sense. And we're very interested and exciting to see what we can do. All that to be said, I think that in order for me to earn the ability and the right to fill the kind of role that I want to fill, I'm going to have to get way more intentional moving into next year about being able to cast vision and remind people why we're doing the things that we're doing and why it's so important to hold the line on the things that we've committed to.

1:19:29 Yeah. It's been a calling this year. Again, Wayne and several other team members and people in our sphere have been good about nudging and reminding me because I teach people this for a living. And then I've just really struggled this year to keep my head open clear enough to be doing that on a consistent basis. And so I got some work to do over Christmas break to just kind of prepare on how I'm going to go into next year more disciplined there and thinking through that. So I think for me is just this kind of concept of visionary. And it doesn't mean having all these brilliant ideas or so creative and having strategies all dialed in and figured out because I'm surrounded by really smart people.

1:20:11 And they have really smart concepts and ideas that they would like to deploy. And I think a lot of them, if I take them seriously, they are the wins. They are the how. I just have to do a better job of breathing fire into what we're doing and why we're doing it. And so I just need to work on that visioneering. How can I be more visionary as a leader? How can I be more consistent in pointing to the why and really leaning into the team and the people around me to go ahead and feel free to develop the how? And so that would be freeing. It would be really powerful. And I think it's what I'm naturally equipped to do. I just can struggle because tasks create value.

1:20:53 And so it's like when I'm doing the thing or perceived, right? In my mind, it's easier to attach Roy to consulting book, to this tasking, this process, this responsibility. And the reality of it is, is every single time I get gut checked or have one of those moments where I go, oh, God, that doesn't feel very good. It's because I wasn't casting vision. I was tasking. I was delivering service. And so it's like this stupid play that as owners we can get caught up in.

1:21:36 pull me out of that. I don't know how I'm going to get there, but we'll figure it out. It'll be a long year, I'm sure. You just helped me clarify actually my, kind of my direction for next year, because I think when I talk about discipline during the day, I realized that my natural wiring is, I don't inherently have a detail orientation and I'm not, I don't tend to be process driven. Any amount of process compliance that I have is very intentional. But what I'm realizing as we grow, what's being demanded of me as we scale and we pursue some of these bigger opportunities is if I'm not disciplined enough in sort of how I, how reliable I am on certain systems and processes with the team.

1:22:21 I become a barrier and a stumbling block for the rest of the team. So when I talk about discipline, like during the day hours, for me, I think that's the next hurdle is I need to develop systems for myself that allow me to not get in the way and potentially hold back the team. Because it's easy. And I think all of us as owners and business people contend with us at some point, right? It's like, I have certain things that I'll never be rad at. And the temptation sometimes is to just toss those things over your shoulder. Just be like, you know what? I like, I'm not, I'm, I'm awesome at this. I'm just going to focus on this and I'm just, everything else can just kind of like fall off the plate. And for a number of years, that kind of worked for me.

1:23:03 And we're getting now to the stage where it's like, that's getting in the way. And from time to time, it's frustrating other people on the team that in some cases they have to play cleanup for Nordike. And not only is it not fair, but it gets in the way of the growth and the maturing that we're trying to do in the business. And so for me, it just has to be about... a baseline level of systems and discipline and process adherence that I bring myself to so that, so that I don't become a thing or a bottleneck, right? Yeah. Something that has significantly helped me really quick and we've been going for a while, but anyway, I, this might help other people that are listening. I front load my weeks. I have found that I get very overwhelmed if I have a lot of calls later in the week to the point that it almost throttles my ability to be effective early in the week because I look at heavy days later in the week and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have to get through three full days of work before having a marathon calls for six hours on Thursday or Thursday.

1:24:03 a bunch of podcast recordings, which I think all of us can attest to. They take a different level of brain power than a regular phone conversation. Podcasting is really fun, but engaging in conversations like this, it's just different. So I front load my week pretty heavily. My Mondays are stacked. Like I have back to back meetings all of Monday, but then I know once I get through Monday, that feels like a huge win for me because I know that I got it's like our team meetings are on Monday. If I have individual meetings with any of my team, for the most part, it's Monday. But then we're setting those expectations really early in the week. We're able to carry those through. I know what everybody's up to. You know, we go through as anybody stuck on anything. You know, where is everybody at?

1:24:43 And that has helped me significantly. And my ability to be effective and be disciplined the rest of the week, knowing once I get through those hard days at the beginning of the week, I can block out times maybe for recordings or projects or other things that I know I need to get done and not feel guilty later in the week for having like grayed out my schedule in that area for Michelle to do Michelle work. Because I know that I've done other things and met other people were there at and protective of my schedule. Now I've learned because how many times do people email you back? No, that doesn't work for me. Can we do a different day? Well, I used to be the type that would bow to everyone's schedule. I will work around you. Even if it kills me, I will work around you.

1:25:23 No, you don't. Nobody needs to be that way. Like it is OK to say, well, how about next week at 10 a.m. on whatever day? The three of us kind of went through that with trying to schedule a few things recently because we're all so busy and it's OK. Yeah. No, that's smart. I think you're right. It's the, I think too, it's even if you start slotting things in later in the week, like you just go in with more confidence because you just crushed Monday through Wednesday or whatever. So you're like, Hey, Friday got full. You know what? We did three days of this already. Let's, let's pound out another one, you know, and call. So smart. Well, here we are. That was a 2024. Yeah. Yeah. No big deal. I can't believe it.

1:26:05 I can't believe it, kids. It's over. Yeah. It's over. And I'm totally okay with it. Me too. We need to make this an annual tradition though, because I want to check in this time next year with you guys and see where you're at and how things went. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I love it. Let's do it. I think that would be super fun. And you know what? On a side note, we do need to think through having some fun this year coming up in 2025, some stuff we can do together. So we certainly need to get that on the calendar. But I like the year in review tradition. We should do that. That would be fun. I like it. Because we kind of did one last year too. We did. Yeah, we did. Yeah. And I think podcasts like this, honestly, are probably more relatable than a lot of the businessy stuff that both of us put out.

1:26:47 No offense to you guys or to myself, I suppose. But yeah. Hey, stay tuned for CNR's top articles because there's at least one floodlight article that's in the top most read for the year. Oh, really? Oh, hot dog. That's fun. Cool. That's always fun. I haven't done all the lists yet, but I was working on them last week and I'm going to finish them up today. So stay tuned. Ooh, right on. That's fun. When are we putting this out? Did we decide we'll do this over like Christmas week? Is that... This podcast? Yeah. Maybe I'll talk to the crew. Maybe that's when we'll throw this one out. And then somebody can... They can start their day with us on Christmas morning when they're with their family. Just turn us on and have it in the back. No, I'm kidding.

1:27:27 That's perfect. That's when we'll put it up. The balance and discipline is working out really well for listeners. Way to turn it off, guys. Hey, what a rad year. Thanks for hanging out with us all year, Michelle. We value our friendship to you. It's been good. You too. I think we've at times been the person creating a little emotion in your life. And at times we've maybe... been supported. Positive and negative emotions. That's right. I'm sure. It's the yin and yang. I feel like you guys have PTSD from like several years ago that you're never going to get older. Don't get nervous about it. It's pretty amazing. Sometimes I pick up my phone to text Brandon and I'm like, stop.

1:28:08 Stop it, Chris. Insight. It's amazing. Yeah. Well, love you, friend. Thanks for a bad year. We'll see you in 2025. Awesome. Thanks, guys. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.