Ep 81 - "At Your Limit" With Rachel Stewart

0:00 Good morning, Brandon. Good morning, Chris. I've noticed you're getting faster and faster on the draw there. I'm a change guy. So you kind of got in this pattern of opening up all of the episodes. And I'm like, you know what? I kind of want to open up some of the episodes. So I just started taking it. I like it. I like the initiative. Fortune favors the bold. You know what I mean? This is where we say the early bird. Yeah. This is where we start knocking out all these rando things. Yeah. The early bird opens the podcast and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly right. What are we doing here, man? Well, we got a great show today. We had Rachel Stewart back on and we took a little bit different path with her and so good, man. It's just so much wisdom and just like her. We had a fun conversation. Yeah.

0:40 Before we dive into that though, we've got some sponsors to thank. How about that? Let's do it. So CNR Magazine, one of our awesome sponsor partners, and a friend, just last week, we were at the RIA convention, international conference, whatever it's called, the annual thing. And we got to hang out with Michelle again. It's interesting. CNR is making a lot of moves. Since Michelle bought the business, she just made one big launch after another. And of course, we've talked about it before. Really helping all the rest of us in the industry stay on top of what's happening with M&A and everything else moving and shaking in the industry right now. But one of the other things a lot of people don't know about is their CE credits.

1:22 Like one of our other consultants, I saw an intro email just this past week to one of our clients saying, hey, take advantage of this. And so even offering CE credits for your technicians and your team to take advantage of through the CNR website. Very cool. Very cool. If you're not a subscriber with CNR, if that's just not on your radar yet, get with the program. CNR... they are the clearinghouse for industry intel and information and education. And we write for CNR and all of the other premier educational companies, consulting companies, suppliers and vendors are also contributing to the CNR platform. It's just where people go for stuff in our industry.

2:02 And so if you're not plugged in there... you should be. Michelle and her team are great. And then on an advertising front, if you're advertising any kind of service or within the industry, you probably should be advertising on CNR's platform. We do. And a lot of other premier operators in the industry are as well. So keep with the program, all right? That's where our people are. Yeah. All right, Liftify.com, Zach, Garrett, and the team. It's hard to come up with a new way to say the team's just kicking ass. But that's just straight up what's happening. At the end of the day, their team gets massive results. We've talked about this before. So automated Google review platform, right? Fire and forget. hand over that client that you just took great care of, put it in the hands of Liftify, and have them get you that just reward of a five-star review so that it can catapult your image online.

2:50 It can push your brand up in terms of SEO and organic surf traffic. Do we use the term surf anymore? I don't know if we do. That might have dated me. Yeah. But in general, they do an amazing job. Return rates or participation rates north of 20%, 25%. They're getting a ton of data now. So if you've been a bit of a slow roller on that decision because you wanted to see Liftify's team get more integrated into the industry, now's the time. Talk to their team. They will clearly show you the data now. that shows that the teams that work for them are absolutely crushing the online review space. So again, Liftify.com. Do yourself a favor and make it happen. And by the way, if you do a little forward slash floodlight on there, it sweetens the pot in your favor.

3:33 So Liftify.com. Some bennies. That's right. Okay. So today, Rachel Stewart, former executive leader of Titan Restoration. I mean, that's a name that most in the industry have been in the industry for more than a minute. Okay. are familiar with. Russ and Palmer and Rachel Stewart, they built a Titan, pun intended, right? I mean, seriously, Titan Restoration is really admired by a lot of companies around the country for their growth and all the things. And they continue to be an industry leader. Rachel made this pivot about three years ago, I think. It branched out to start acceleration restoration software, really trying to solve some of the critical challenges or frustrations that scaling a restoration company in terms of job management software.

4:18 And what platform do we need to aggressively grow in a sustainable way a restoration business? And so she took all these gaps that she identified in the job management software that she'd used coming up in the industry and said, hey, what if we could build a better... mousetrap here and really address contractors' needs, both from job management, a CRM standpoint, all the things that we as operators in the field desperately need to have an organized business. And she did it. She set out and it's happening. They're gaining a lot of traction. So we talk a little bit about accelerating this, but more so we talk about that journey because... It's relevant to all of us that have operated in the field. Many of us didn't come up in restoration. I would say probably most of us didn't.

4:59 Many of us came from other home services trades or a totally unrelated business where we're like, hey, there's a need. I see the opportunity in the restoration industry. And then you get in, you're like, holy cow. There's a lot of nuanced... niche knowledge. This is a weird industry in a lot of ways. How do you manage those skill gaps, those knowledge gaps? When we get into that, how do you enter a foreign business and deal with that? How do you build a team when you don't necessarily have the domain expertise In all areas. Yeah, in all areas. To know what you're looking for. And like in Rachel's case, we start out talking about building a software company. But everything we talk about after that is hyper relevant to every restoration company out there.

5:41 And she drops some awesome wisdom bombs in this thing. So hang in there for the whole thing. It's like an hour and 10 minutes. We really, it was awesome. She gave us so much time. Hang in there for the whole thing because there's these periodic where it's like, whoa, whoa. Or there's even some pregnant pauses where you and I are just like, holy cow, she just said that. That's powerful. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, this episode is really centered around leading at our outer limits. Right. And she does a great job, excuse me, of unpacking what it takes, what some of that transition looks like, the ego checks, the head game that she had to be playing in order to live and win in those outer limits. So yeah, let's get into it.

6:21 Right on. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. Man, I love this industry. Rachel, welcome and thank you for coming again. How are you? We're good. We're good. This is round number two, right? We were just talking about this. The first time you were here was what, 10 years ago or something like that? The very beginning. Doesn't it feel that way? I mean, I feel like... We've known each other. I mean, we've really known each other. I knew you and Brandon connected previously in the operations roles and stuff.

7:03 But it feels like years since we first were talking and it's only been 18 months or something. I know. It was like a deep, fast friendship. And it's one of those where, yeah, I feel the same. I'm like, Oh, yeah, we've known. I've been in the industry 15 years. You must have been in the first five years. Nope. Yeah. Nope. Nope. I know. It's wild. It's crazy how fast time has gone for all of us. And we were just making some comments too because we just went to RIA. We were seeing some folks for the first time in real life that we've had 6-12 month virtual friendships with or partnerships with. And then you're just seeing them live. First hugs.

7:44 First hugs after almost a year of knowing each other. It's weird. He looks so different in person than on Zoom. Yeah. Like you meet somebody and they're like six foot four. You're like, dude, you've been sitting down for every meeting we've ever had. We had no idea that you were that tall or they're shorter or they're right. It's like, oh, hey. Yeah, that happened to me last year at a couple events, you know, because we're a totally virtual team. So I've hired a lot of people. So employees that I meet for the first time, and I was like, you look so different. I was expecting something different. Anyway, that's got to be a trip. You have with your own people, right? And anyway, that first like, I'm a hugger. We gonna hug or what?

8:24 I know. I know, right? Well, and I think the other thing too is you and I, in some ways, we're in parallel lanes lately. You just had one of your kids graduate, right? And leave the nest. Yeah, my second happening this year. And I'm having my first graduate out this year. It's upon us. How are you feeling? Oh, boy. That's a whole other show. That's a whole other show. Lots of mixed feelings. It's very weird. I mean, my daughter has been clamoring for independence. I mean, just... reaching for it pretty much since she was 12. And so it feels very schizophrenic. I'm sure you can relate to this. It's like, on the one hand, we're really excited for her to just go out and figure out, go do her thing.

9:06 And then there's this other part where the brevity of life. What does this mean? Our first one is leave it like, holy cow, my wife and I have been married 21 years. Our kids used to be here and now they're kind of becoming an adult, kind of. So there's this weird existential thing of what does this mean about my life and how old I am and how much is in front of me versus behind, like all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, I had done a podcast a couple of years ago about just that work-life balance. the two oldest on there. So the one that graduated last year, the one that's graduating this year. And basically kind of the message was like, you can do it. Like if you work with your kids and have good communication and everything, you can kind of have this, like you can make it work.

9:50 Like it's not maybe going to be pretty all the time. I think that that was kind of the message I was hoping like... to convey. But then you get to this other side of it and you're like, oh, this is time I'm never going to get back. And you really struggle. Like on the one hand, I feel like I gave my kids this really great balance of seeing that you can go out and make something of yourself and have goals and like reach for your dreams. And I think I gave them confidence in some of that. Like, but then you're also like, there's moments that I missed and I'm never going to come back. It's a Like the person that they're growing into and what they're going to do and all that.

10:30 And then you're like, don't forget me. Gosh, isn't that like the balancing act that all... I'd say, I mean, business owners, right? Key employees, we all struggle with it. But man... As more and more weight is on your shoulders to strategize, deploy, think long term, be in the trench and create and do all those things. It's so hard to not lose track of that time with your family is limited. There's these blocks, these moments that you can take advantage of. And they do go by... Quickly. Honestly, in a lot of ways, I wish I had less regret about some of the things that I did with my time. Because both my kids are out.

11:11 Like I have a 21 and a 23 year old and our relationships are almost closer in some ways now than ever. Oh, I bet. They're a little more adult-like, I think, in terms of what our relationship is like. But man, it's true. I look back and it's a done deal. I'm not going to get some of those moments back. But as a word of encouragement, I don't know if you guys care or not, but here's a word of encouragement. My son, as an example, is mature enough now that I'm being pursued. He's coming to me for... Awesome. You know what I mean? For the relationship stuff. And now it's just like, okay, if that door opens or if that's coming, I just want to acknowledge it, stop what I'm doing and give them that time. So that's really rewarding.

11:52 So you guys don't... I mean, yes, some of the stuff you can't do again, but man, is there a whole new realm of fun that you get to have in the next phase? Yeah. That's what my sister said. She has all adult kids now. And she's like, Rachel, it's awesome. It's so much fun. I'm like, are you sure? Anyway, but yeah, I sent both of mine. Well, I'm going to be sending my son to like across the world. So my daughter's in Chile right now. And my son's going to Brazil pretty much in July. A couple months after he graduates. And so I hope they're ready. Off you go. They certainly will be by time it's over. Yeah. When we get back, they'll be changed humans. Oh, and full-on Spanish speakers as well.

12:33 Boy, that's... Spanish and Portuguese. Or Portuguese, right? Yeah. With Brazil. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. Anyway, that was kind of a sidetrack for your listeners. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's real. And I imagine some other people are in the same season of life, right? Well, yeah. So let's dive in. Founder and CEO of Accelerate Restoration Software. I thought it'd be interesting for us to talk about that transition because... you made a huge pivot. In some ways, it's a huge pivot. In other ways, right, you're still serving the industry that you grew up in. But I was explaining ahead of time, I have this very tiny little experimental experience of doing a software startup with an engineer buddy of mine and a designer friend of mine several years ago.

13:16 And that's a whole other show, potentially. But I think there's something interesting there because in our industry, we have a lot of new people coming into the industry. Many of them coming from other either home services or other types of roles. I mentioned ahead of time, we have a client who came in from being an accountant for some other business category. And they saw the opportunity in restoration and they've done very well. But it's also been an extraordinary lift making that transition into a very unique industry. And for you, I'm just so curious to hear, and I think our audience would be interested to hear too, about what that's been like to make that transition from coming up through the ranks in restoration and ultimately leaving that side of the business as a senior executive and going into software.

14:02 and a technology startup and being in that whole Silicon Valley tech venture space working with programmers. And because in my experience, it's just a massive context shift. And yet I think it's really relatable to others who are coming into the industry from other things that are navigating the same kind of thing. So would you mind taking us back to... We talked a lot about your experience at Titan. But talk about that transition of leaving the operating and going into startup phase again. What was that like? Can you walk us through that story a little bit? First of all, I will say, I had no idea what I was getting into or no idea what I was doing.

14:43 I mean, I thought I did. I'm like, oh, I know exactly what needs to be built in this space, right? I know where all the gaps are because I've been in every system. I have all the same headaches that most of the contractors have. have the challenge of getting field documentation, like how to make that easier for the technicians because there's so many areas of resistance and points of friction and how to make that easy. And then how do I make it easier to manage all of these projects? I mean, we were running probably... 300 open jobs at a time and being able to tell where everything was and be able to stay on top of that, make sure we're hitting margins and all that kind of stuff. So anyway, I had this beautiful idea of what needed to be built.

15:24 And I was like, how come nobody's doing this? Come on. I get on Amazon and I have a package here in 12 hours. How hard can it be? Anyway, that was probably really stupid. Amazon's a billion-dollar company and has a couple hundred thousand developers. It's hard. Anyway, so yeah. I mean, I think for me that was a benefit, right? Like that naivety and the speed at which I thought we would grow, like gather customers and the speed at which we could get profitable. was really naive. And the amount of money that it would take. Like all of those kind of things. Anyway, so I don't know how much detail you want me to go into.

16:06 But and learning like when the first moment was when I was like, Oh, this is going to be a lot harder than what I was. Give us one of those. Yeah. Like walk us through those first few because I presumably you had some business meetings with people exploring like, how do I start a software? Walk us back through some of those. if you don't mind, some of those early stories. What were your first steps? How did it even look? First of all, it was just the amount of money that it would take to really build what needed to be built. I had a couple of early estimations. It was like, oh, it's going to be a million dollars. And then there were a lot of people that were like, okay, take that and then double it. Because I was like, it can't be that expensive to do this, right?

16:47 It's really... Anyway, so like some of that was a little bit shocking. The way that engineers think and the way that my restoration brain thinks is just different. And so I had to open up to, which has been a really good skill set, is to think about not just solving the immediate problem, but how solving that problem affects 25 different things or 30 different things. Because... If you're saying, hey, people just want statuses and flexible statuses, right? Originally, we built statuses in there that were concrete. Every job went through these first statuses.

17:29 First, it was a new, then it went into sales. And then depending on whether it was water or recon, it would either go into selling the job, so pre-production or estimating. And you had these certain statuses, workflows that would go. then people are like, well, we kind of run things different. We want this flexibility. And you're like, okay, no problem. We can make these statuses flexible. Well, are you thinking 10 steps down the road where, okay, now we want to start aggregating data to feed back to people, to help them see like either benchmarking or different things and be able to see trends or correlations between certain carriers maybe or certain referral types and how that leads to profitability or whatever.

18:17 Well, if you have all of these different statuses that people just make up... then you're not being able to aggregate data in a way that's helpful for them. So those kinds of decisions where you think, oh, that's just an easy decision. And that's one that only affects maybe one other thing. But there's lots of decisions when you're like, oh, that's now going to impact 10 different pieces in the software and the way that people run their business. And so being able to open up my mind to solving problems differently has been a really great skill for me. What does that look like in practice? So obviously, I mean, I hear you say it. I'm like, okay, yeah, it makes sense that you have to expand your ability to strategically problem solve.

18:58 But what did you do to actually increase that capacity? Was it just experience, like just being forced to at some point? Or did it become a little bit more proactive? Yeah, definitely just practice, right? And being able to ask the question, okay, how many other things will this impact? And being able to think down the road. I think in restoration, it's like, okay, how do we solve this immediate problem? And then if another problem pops up later, then you're just going to solve that problem, right? And even in your SOPs and stuff that you build, you're like, a lot of people think, oh, I'll build this to a certain degree. And then I know it's going to fail and I'm going to have to like just restart and maybe not restart, but I'm going to have to revisit and we're going to have to recreate our SOPs for this different dynamic or this larger company or...

19:46 this extra division that we brought in. And I actually think that that's a good way to solve problems. It's fast, you're agile, you're able to do the best thing in that moment to help scale. And you know that at different stages of growth, you're just going to have to restructure and it actually works okay. But you can't do that. You cannot build software in a way that you have to rebuild it every couple years or whatever. You always need to be innovating. And at some point, you're going to maybe have to look at your technical debt and reevaluate. And at some point, maybe it does make sense to rebuild a module or do something. But if you were doing that with all of your decisions based on something as simple as the example I gave you about statuses, that's going to be like a road to failure.

20:34 So I mean, I don't know that it's necessarily the best skill set for every position or everything in life. I think with restoration, you have to be able to make decisions quickly. And this, it's like really slowing down and being able to just really dive into all of the nuances. It's interesting kind of the path you started to go down there. So one of the things that I think I wrestle with pretty often is... When we're working with teams, there's this obvious path that you can look backwards and see where we just, in the moment, put this bandaid on. In the moment, we stepped in and did X. In this moment, we took over and finished or completed this.

21:14 But we weren't problem solving to create a solution. in that moment. And I know that's not what you're talking about because we've seen the company that you were a part of. We've seen what your track record looks like. Just from your perspective, can you give us some clarity around the difference between problem solving live like you're talking about in an agile, quick way versus slapping a bandaid on something that will end up making that same problem show up next week so that you're forced to put that same bandaid on it again? So the way that I talked about it, especially when I was working with managers, is like, what quadrant are you operating in? So if you had these four quadrants, and one is like strategic thinking and forward thinking and problem solving, and then you've got one that's just more like your day-to-day operations, one is like your people, and then maybe the other one is just like putting out fires all of the time.

22:11 And I was like, if you're spending a majority of your time in number four, putting out fires all the time, you need to go back to your first quadrant and you need to start strategic thinking. You need to start solving problems so you're not always operating in like putting out fires. Yeah. I think if you can kind of say, if this is what I'm doing all the time is just sticking band-aids on everything, then I've got a real strategic problem. And I've got to go back and think about, okay, where are the true pain points? And if we can start operating proactively and start putting in some things, even just with customer communication, you know, if you're always like, waiting for that customer to reach out or express a problem or like, what's happening next on my job or whatever.

22:56 And you went back to quadrant one and were more proactive in your communication, reached out to them, was like, Hey, this is what you can expect along the way. You're going to have to spend way less time on the phone. So I was like, if you're operating in quadrant one, if you're not there, get into quadrant one. Get somebody else to put out the fires. Get somebody else to deal with some of this. Get there. Put some SOPs in place. Put some standardization. Be proactive in your planning. And you're going to save so much time on this back end. And I think that that's what people fail to do. They are like, I know I need to do some of this stuff, but I just don't have time.

23:37 I will get to it. And then they never get to it because quadrant four just keeps building and building and building and building and building. I think that's a good point. Like that differentiator, because people do know. And that's kind of what you just alluded to is, you know, when you're repeating behavior, that's not actually fixing the problem. Like, you know it in the back of your mind. And that's that hint of the more you exercise that practice versus getting out of it, going back into quadrant run and actually solving the issue, then it just perpetuates that problem. I was going to say just having some standard operating procedures that you put in place, even making a technology decision. We run into this all the time. People will demo the software and they'll be like, Oh, this is going to fix so many of my problems.

24:22 I'm in. But we're in the middle of this cat situation, which I get. Cat is crazy. And then cat ends. And then they're just still so swamped. And this decision goes on and on and on and on. And you're like, if you had just a fraction of some of these things in your business, But they can't stop long enough to implement. And I feel for them. It's hard. So I want to circle back to the other part of this conversation, which is you've identified this need as you've been starting Accelerate, working with programmers, working with software, where you can't just put Band-Aids on because you can't constantly be going back to ground zero and changing the foundation, right? Right. I think for a lot of companies, as they start to get in, maybe it's 10 million, 20.

25:05 There's some range there where you start to have enough people on your team to start to operate more strategically. And you really have to then to grow to the next level. I hear you saying, when you're in the software business, you really have to be good at thinking about the downstream effects of your decisions. And I think as restoration companies get bigger, you have to think about that too. Because otherwise, you end up... creating as many problems as you're solving over the long haul, over a two, three, four, five-year period. Have you learned some processes or are there certain types of guided conversations that you have with your team and with developers when you are facing a problem where you get in? You can identify those downstream effects?

25:46 What does that look like, sound like? Because you guys are problem solving now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would say probably the biggest example of that in restoration for me was hiring. So getting a good hiring process because you're like, Oh, we are so busy. We need to get bodies in the seats. And then you fill them with bodies. And if you don't fill them with the right bodies, how expensive that is. And... how much damage that it can do culturally or even just slow down your growth because you're like, oh, I'm going to continue to work with this person. They have potential. And you're continuing to try to invest in this thing and tweak it and make it work. Sometimes it does. And more often than not, it doesn't. So I think it's just the first one would be recognizing that impact, right?

26:33 Like you're just like, oh, well, if it doesn't work, then we're really not better off. Like we will fix this problem. You know, we're not worse off. We're still going to have to find somebody. Well, you are worse off. You know, there's all of this expense that went into that person. So I think identifying what the true cost of it is, right? And my head of development always talks about this. Like if it costs a dollar to get it right in the moment, it costs $5 to fix it in testing. And it costs $100 to do it once it's gone out to production, if it's not right. So taking that time to step back and do it in the moment. So for restoration contractors, I think their hiring process would be number one.

27:15 So for us, we went through when I was over at Titan, top grading. To have some sort of system in place. I'm not saying that that's the only one or that's the best one. You can read the book, Who. There's lots of different strategies. But to have a strategy around being able to identify cultural fits in the beginning and not just skill sets would be a good one. And then being able to have a plan to develop and train and grow leaders within your organization. So, I mean, when we have a new system or a new thing that we're working on, it's really important for us to say, Okay, in its entirety, what does this need to look like?

27:59 In its entirety, what do we need to build? And kind of dream out the best case scenario. And then make sure that the decisions that we are making in the interim... Because you're not going to roll out the best possible solution, right? You're going to have a minimum viable product normally. This probably isn't going to make sense to your listeners, but we don't do waterfall development. It's agile and you're releasing... Incremental. Yeah. It's incremental growth to build this. But you want to make sure that these incremental things that you're doing aren't going to impact what your long-term goal and vision is for the product. And there are decisions that you make that can prevent you from being able to reach your final destination that you would want to be at.

28:43 So I would definitely try to think that way as you're putting in some of your processes, even in restoration. Can I try to connect the dots here a little bit? Summarize that a little bit. I'm just thinking from the restorer side a little bit here. And I'm just thinking of some of our conversations we've had recently with some of our teams. So what I'm hearing you say is, first off, there's this reality that you're going to have to, in the moment, do something to put that fire out. We're not petitioning to anyone that you just all of a sudden delay your decision making because you're going to come up with, in quotes, a long-term strategy. Yeah. So there's this action of, okay, do today what you need to to put that fire out, but take note of what that fire was, and then take the appropriate amount of time required to try to identify what the cause of that was.

29:33 What was the cause that created that fire? Was it a people issue, a process issue, a system issue? Yeah. And then identify what the end state solving that looks like. Okay, in a perfect world, we would no longer have this fire because we do XYZ, right? And then what I'm hearing you say, though, is you don't go from putting out the fire to solving the problem in one fell swoop. There's potentially some iterating that's going to happen where I identify cause, I identify where I want to go, and in the interim, I may have one or two versions of that solution. 100%. 100%. And it's important to take those first steps. I'm a big proponent of not waiting until something's 100% fully baked and done before you start implementing because the world moves too fast.

30:24 You will never get there. You will continue to reiterate and reiterate and reiterate and reiterate. If you were working for the perfect marketing plan and you just sat, I want to use this as some version of my marketing strategy. Okay, but I don't have the perfect prompts that are going to give me the best possible results of this. And so then you're sitting on it. And in the meantime, who knows what's coming next and next and next and next and then nothing ever gets implemented. So it's like, okay, we're going to start today with this section and we're going to roll it out. And we know that we're going to have to improve it. We're going to have to iterate. We're going to have to Get data back, right?

31:05 Feedback back. And then we're going to have to make some iterative changes till we see improvement. And we're never 100% done. We're just constantly evolving. What I also hear you saying too is be careful when you're doing the firefighting that the solution, even if it's not the perfect solution, isn't sabotaging the bigger vision. Like, yeah, we're going to be firefighting and yeah, we need to adapt in the moment. But be careful that that temporary choice you're making isn't in direct conflict with where you're headed. And I think that's a mistake a lot of us make. And the hiring thing is the perfect reason. We talk about desperation brain all the time. It's like, man, I got so much work in production. I have so many average calls that we receive every day.

31:48 I lose that tech. I got to get another tech in there as fast as possible. And so we often make an exception to the long-term vision. We disregard the long-term vision to plug that hole. And in some cases, we end up tanking our team because we aren't thinking about the downstream effect of bringing in a bad culture misfit or even a toxic person. Because we can get in that mindset of, well, can they carry equipment and suck water out of the rug? Get in there. Go do your thing. And then they sabotage. They create drama on that team. We lose two other people because they don't want to work with that. Relationships that you worked hard to build. There is a lot of consequences of that.

32:29 Rachel, from your perspective, how do you balance? Because I think this is just such a natural next thing is... How do you balance the difference between a state of constant change? Because teams, we've seen it, where that team, it's like their process changes every three months because they're just constantly a work in process. And you burn out the energy of the team, the commitment, the hope, the excitement about what that change is going to deploy. And it's just, you hear the tension in the statement of, Oh yeah, we're always changing this crap, right? It's so funny. You know what I would have said under normal circumstances, Rachel? I would have said, we always are changing shit. But for some reason, when I have you on my show, I don't want to say the word shit because it's Rachel.

33:10 So how do you balance that? How do you manage that as a leader? So I think that there's a difference between constant change and constant improvement. So if your strategy is constantly bouncing... then you've got a problem. And that's not to say that we don't need to be flexible and we don't need to be agile. And sometimes a market condition changes and we have to be flexible and jump on that. But that's pretty rare, I think. That's more the exception than the rule. So I think if you find that your strategy is constantly changing, like, oh, this week, we're going after hospital work.

33:51 Three months from now, oh, that didn't work. So we're changing over to this vertical or whatever. When no amount of work is going to come from hospitals in three months. I mean, that is going to be a long tail strategy decision. And I think sometimes people aren't really thinking long term through strategy decisions. And so then they bounce from, okay, we're going to pull all of our salespeople from that and we're going to send them over to property management. And oh, can you get involved in BOMA and all of these other kind of things? And the next day, oh, we're heavy into TPA or whatever. Like just looking for... wherever the fastest solution is, right? And if it doesn't come immediately, then they're switching directions. So I think that that's one of the issues, right?

34:33 Is that there's not real belief and vision in the vision of where you're going. Like that needs to be come hell or high water. And I just curse for you, Brandon. See guys, that's why I wouldn't have wanted to say the word because in her context, we've just really crossed a line. Oh no. Yeah. Come what may. This is the direction we are going. And we're committed to this because we believe it is the right decision long term for the company. And we know that there's going to be obstacles and barriers in the way. And we're not just going to start dodging obstacles when things get hard. So I think that's one of the reasons that companies can be switching a lot.

35:14 And then the second is I think that they're putting in things without, again, thinking about the long-term consequences of things. So if you put into a plan and this is the first version and then you're just adding to it, you're just rounding it out, you're adding some depth and some things, that's different than... you're changing compensation plans every three months because you hadn't thought about certain scenarios where this compensation plan was not scalable. And I think that that kind of goes back to my correlation between the software company, right? Like if we continued to develop things and didn't think about the long-term impact of things, then we would release something and it would break something else and we'd be having to go back, oh, and redo it, redo it, redo it, redo it, redo it.

35:59 And your users would just get so fed up with that, you know? I think there has to be enough thought into long-term consequences and then sticking with a plan long enough to see its fruition and not backing down any time there's barriers or obstacles. Okay, let's just try to find the easier route. And then you're, okay, we're going to change directions. oh, there's a barrier here. We're going to change directions back rather than saying, okay, now we have a barrier. How are we going to overcome that? What's the next iteration of this to continue down the path we're going? All right, Head, Heart & Boots listeners. Want to stop here just a moment and thank our underwriting sponsor, Bloodlight Consulting Group.

36:44 As all of you know, right? You know, Brandon and I, this is our passion project, Head Heart in Boots is. But it's also a way more and more that our consulting clients find us. And in effect, they interview us, right? Those of you who've been listening to the show for a while, you get to know who we are, right? What we're about. So if Head Heart in Boots is valuable to you, one of the best things you can do is share it with your friends. And it's been incredible to watch Just the audience grow and we still get text messages from many of you about shows that you really like and impacted you. So that's number one. And please keep doing that. Many of you have been huge advocates of the show. We also just want to remind you, too, if you're a restoration company owner and you're interested in a partner in your growth, you want some help building out systems, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing helping set up the infrastructure for you to scale and grow into the company that you're trying to build.

37:35 That's what we do. That's what we do is we come alongside restoration company leaders. We help equip them and we help support them in that growth trajectory. So if you're looking for that, go to floodlightgrp.com. Potentially, we could be a great match for each other. Another way that we really do serve our client base and our sphere of influence is through our premier partners. We work really hard to vet those folks that we believe bring a level of value to the industry, that it can really be leveraged in a way to have a sincere, positive impact on your business. We take that very seriously. The folks that we create those kind of ongoing partnerships, that's not a check-the-box kind of scenario. We really see strategic alignment in the value that they bring.

38:15 We see value in the way that their leadership teams and their partners are developed. And we've done very sincere work of ensuring that these folks that we introduce our clients and our sphere to can actually create vetted value. So go check out floodlightgrp.com forward slash premiere slash partners And see if there's some folks on there that you can connect with and begin developing some other resources to support your growth and your business. Okay, I got another question that I think is also a hard hitter. And that is, in my experience with software, one of the most difficult things, and I couldn't make the jump, ultimately. I didn't figure it out in this season. I didn't know enough about software and programming to where I felt like I knew what questions to ask of my people.

39:02 I could not see the path between what the vision I had in my mind of ultimately what I wanted that app to look like and what the user... I had this vision in my head. But all of the language and all of the parts and all of the how much time and how much money... And you've already talked about just how much money it costs versus what it seemed like it would cost maybe before you got into it. How do you know when you need to go in and develop a skill base for yourself? Like you need to learn the basics of... programming and stuff like that versus just staffing to it? And then how do you manage that knowledge and skill gap to effectively lead? Because I think a lot of restorers fall in this situation, right?

39:42 Whether it's they came up in the industry on the sales side, and they never really had an active role in field operations. And so they're an owner that's more sales focused. They don't know specifically how to... drive quality control in mitigation or recon operations or vice versa. They don't know how to hold their sales team accountable because they don't know the language of it. How have you negotiated that? And how have you solved for that? Because I think that's a huge black box for a lot of owners in certain areas where all the areas of the business. For example, we talked about somebody coming into Resto. from a totally different industry, from an accounting background or maybe an HR background. It's like, oh my gosh, how do I hold people accountable when I don't even necessarily understand the KPIs and the language of the... You know what I mean?

40:31 Does that make sense? Right. It makes total sense because I felt that exact same terror coming into this because you are putting so much money and there's so much riding on it for it to be right. And so then you're like, okay, I'm just having to trust... this vendor or this employee or whoever that they know what they're doing. And I did not enjoy being in that position at all. So I would recommend this for everyone. Doesn't matter. Is first surround yourself with a strong network of people who you trust, who also know more than you. So I think you can fix so many of those knowledge gaps by doing that.

41:13 So for me, it was, okay, I don't know technology, but I need to put myself in a technology space where I am surrounded by very smart technology people who then I can go to and ask questions about and get feedback that I can trust. Right? So for the sake of clarity right there, I don't mean to cut you off. You're saying outside of your organization. They're not in the org chart. Industry peers. Yes. So for me, I joined a group I was very lucky to be part of, which is AZ Startup. And it's run by a couple of founders that exited, had nice exits. A lot of them in the SaaS space. And they were like, we want to help founders be able to do what?

41:56 was so hard for us to do. And they're really building out the Phoenix market ecosystem in terms of startups and doing a lot of things. So I was lucky enough to be a part of this group, which then put me in cohorts of other founders. A lot of them are SaaS companies. And a lot of those SaaS founders are technical founders. And so we get together, we do masterminds, we talk about what are pressing problems, I can send something over, and then they also make their people available to me, like their CTO or their heads of product or whatever. If I have a question, I was like, okay, who's running into this development problem? How do you guys solve it? And instantly have 25 answers.

42:37 And I'm like, okay, we're on the right track or hey, we need to pivot. So that was one thing. Two, I have just had to expand my knowledge base. That's just fundamental. But it happens organically, I think. I came into restoration, knew less than nothing. I had no knowledge and came in as a bookkeeper, office manager, and I grew and scaled. And then I also think the third thing is to hire people that are very, very skilled and knowledgeable in your big gap. And people that you feel like you can trust, right? And that fit all of the cultural things as well.

43:17 I was lucky enough that we hired that on our first hire, right? So the first employee of Accelerate, Nathan Link, has been kind of that person for me who has that technology background, that knowledge gap, and that also I can trust. And so as we discuss strategy and some of these, he fills in a lot of those gaps. So... It's a problem, but it doesn't have to be a barrier. We scaled Titan to over $24 million. And I couldn't tell you the first thing about how to run a dehumidifier. That was not my role. I had a bunch of people in the organization that knew that and had that skill set. Now, I mean, I have no doubt that I could fill that knowledge gap.

44:01 I could go take those classes. I could be on site and I would be totally fine. But that wasn't what my role was, right? I was thinking strategy. I was thinking people. I was thinking scaling. I was doing all of those things that were very critical to the growth of the business. And we had a really big loss one year. It was like a $9 million water loss. And we were there for a good couple months taking care of that. And I did all of the billing for that. That was a skill set that I had to develop in that moment because we had a problem. We had brought in a consultant. That consultant wasn't doing what was promised for us. They were just there to do all of the billing.

44:41 So I had to step in and take over and learned everything I needed to do on that job. It ended up working out and it was a good, profitable job for us. So I do think that there's a lot of things that you're going to step into that you don't know how to do. You can figure it out. One thing I'd almost parallel with what you're saying, I think it's spot on, is... I often see leaders that are competent in a certain category, but then they're afraid to lead their people that they've hired in those other areas of expertise. And so an example would be, let's say I'm an owner of a business and I did come in from outside of the industry. I'm trying to fill the knowledge gap. I go out and I hire a very competent mitigation department manager.

45:22 And they've got plenty of time and grade doing commercial large loss. They're just great at executing and delivering the service in the field. And then what I see is that then that business owner becomes very hesitant to be the leader of the organization because they get caught up behind this idea that they're not technically as competent as that individual is in, let's say, running field operations. And I think what you just highlighted was very important. And that is, there are going to be times where you need to fill that knowledge gap 100%. But like you said, what's your job as a company owner, as a key leader? Strategy, scaling, systemization, process, developing your people.

46:03 Hone that skill craft, right? And don't be afraid to lead your people. You still know what your business is going to look like. You know what you want. from your company. And that person that you put into that seat because they're technically skilled needs you to lead them in the strategy, the vision, and the growth and where you want to go as an institution. And so I just want to remind people, don't forget your real responsibility in this mix. And don't hesitate to lead even though you don't feel as technically competent about a field craft, for example, as the person is. Right. We see that a lot. I don't want to simplify this. I think a large part of the reason I've been able to be so confident in just what I was doing was also that the owner of the restoration company and my counterpart in all of this was very knowledgeable in that sector.

46:54 So I do think that's why so many founders will have partners, right? They have a partner that's really good at this and a person that's like the two of you. Like Brandon, you're operationals. Chris, you do more of the sales and training and the way that you guys do that together is very helpful. So I do think that it is important to have that expertise and that knowledge in the organization at the top. There needs to be that. And if there isn't, then fill it or go learn it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I also think when is the last time that you had a meeting with a mitigation manager, Brandon, and you sat down and talked about the psychometric ratings on a job?

47:38 That's not what you're there to do, right? Right. 100%. Yeah. You're there when you're coaching and training and growing a leader. You're talking about much higher level things. And you wouldn't want that conversation to start getting in the weeds. If it got into the weeds at that granular level, then you'd be like, Hey, we got in the weeds. We need to pull this up a level again. And so to remember really what the purpose of those meetings are is going to help your confidence too, because it's not to dig into the specifics on that. Unless those specifics lead to, again, a long-term strategy issue or a quadrant one issue, we got to get back there because this is reoccurring.

48:18 Yeah. Do you have a way that you ask questions? And maybe it's just wing it. But do you have a bit of a methodology? Like if I'm rolling into a room and I want to make sure that I'm getting a clear understanding of the technicalities or whatever that's required in this particular conversation or sector of the business, do you have a way that you ask questions so you can get the level of information that you need, but still stay in that lane that you're talking about or stay at the appropriate level? Yeah. So I'd never try to pretend like I know what I don't know. That's been very important to me. To just sit there and go, oh, I know what they're talking about or pretend that you know, isn't a good position, I think, to be in.

49:02 Unless you don't have a lot of trust. And then in that situation, I wouldn't try to... There's a bigger problem. Right? Yeah. So I never tried to like with my team or whatever, try to express to them that I know more than I do. And sometimes those are kind of vulnerable conversations where it's like, hey, I've never done this before. And so we're solving this problem together. I'm sorry you're having to follow a leader that's not experienced in this, but I have confidence that we can figure this out. And if we don't have the skill set in this room, we will bring the expertise from outside in. Yeah. So I think that that's the very first thing because people will be able to recognize that. Wow, that takes a lot of courage.

49:42 Yeah. And that's definitely a later skill set for me. That wasn't necessarily my MO as an early operator or as an early manager. So being able to look at problems, be comfortable saying, yeah, I don't know. I don't know the solution. So but what you do need to be confident is I'm confident in our ability to solve this problem. And I'm confident in you as a leader to be a huge piece of solving that problem. And I'm going to put some confidence and some trust in you. And we're going to try some things. And if you make mistakes and if I make mistakes, that's okay. We're going to be quick to correct them. And we're going to learn and we're going to continue to grow and develop together.

50:23 If nothing else is heard in this entire episode, but you can capture that piece and mirror that in the way that you lead your teams, guys. That was strategy communication 101 with a team. That was picture perfect. On how to communicate with the team and ask them to follow you when you clearly are not the technical expert. That was beautiful. And that is great leadership. We talk a lot about humility. And I know you value that too, Rachel. But that's a case study. And like, what does it look like to lead with humility? It's being willing to say that. Like every single one of us as leaders has a gap or multiple. And yet I think it takes a huge amount of courage and self-awareness to be able to say what you just said to a downline leader or a colleague, a part, whatever.

51:08 Yeah. to say, you know what? I don't know. That was pretty cool. Yeah. And I think really what that allows is for you to be a multiplier. And what I mean by this is really, then you put a lot of the responsibility back on that leader to help solve the problem. If it's going to happen, I have to be part of this solution. Because there's not somebody above me or over me that is going to be able to cover this or has it solved... Right. So I've got to be the solution here. And I am the expert knowledge in this area. Right. So I'm going to have to solve this problem.

51:51 And then I'm going to have to take it to this leader and say, OK, this is kind of what I'm coming up with. Can we talk through it? And what do you think? And then as a leader, you can say, yeah, this is brilliant. Let's run with it. And thank you so much. And then that empowers that individual over and over and over and over. that is constantly putting downward pressure. It's coming from ground roots and that leadership is coming up. And then you can have more and more confidence in your people, right? That they can solve problems. Well, there's incredible power in what you're modeling there too, right? Because it's like you may be talking to that engineer or that mitigation manager or whatever.

52:31 You're acknowledging your own vulnerability, your own need for them. It's modeling to them. They inevitably have skill gaps or they have an area of their work that they're not as confident in or less experienced in. So for them to go to another peer or their own downline employee or team member and convey their need the same way, you start to see that across a whole team where everybody feels confident sharing their weaknesses and their needs with others who are stronger in those areas. Wow. Right? There's a powerful culture there of humility that drives performance. Everybody also, you're affirming the value they bring to the team as well in that same conversation too, right?

53:12 I would even petition on that, that let's say using that same example, mitigation department, recon department manager, and you do have the answer, ask anyways. Yeah. Because you can see from that experience, you being that manager, when the CEO or the owner of the company comes to you and says, Hey, engage with me here. Help me solve this. Help me come up with a plan that we can commit to. The level of empowerment, all the things you guys have just talked about is so powerful. Well, can you manifest that in a downline technician by simply asking for their help, even though you may know the answer? Right. And the level of engagement that you get from them, right? They're valued, they're esteemed, they see that they can contribute.

53:56 That's like succession planning, right? There's a lot of power behind that example. Yeah, well, and we did a visioneering course, a workshop not too long ago. And I am a huge proponent of visioneering. And basically, for anybody who hasn't taken that workshop, first of all, I recommend it. You can go to, I think, either of our website and get to it. But the whole premise of that is having a very clear, sensory-rich vision of where you're going, right? Like end destination, finish line. Yeah. And as long as that is super clear, like, I just wanted to preface that the I don't know, or let's solve this together type of thing does not correlate to that, right?

54:40 Like, I am a huge believer that as a leader, you should have a very clear picture about where the organization is going. What I'm talking about is the gaps in the maybe how or the nuances of what it's going to take to get there. Yeah. And that is where... If you can create the big picture and the vision, then you would be amazed at what your people can create to make that happen. So an example of that for me is, again, never run a tech company before, never ran a customer success department. But we have a manager, right? And we have a very clear picture of where we're going. And what I want to have happen out of this, which is like, we have a lot of efficiencies that people understand.

55:26 Customers get the help that they need immediately. All of these kinds of things that we want without being super people heavy, right? Like we need a bunch of processes in place that is going to help us to be efficient. Basically, just creating that outline in this vision, this manager has been able to create amazing processes and systems that are four times more effective than the other competitors in the space in terms of efficiency, the number of bodies that we need, and the NPS that's coming out of that. So being able to create that vision and then being saying, how you're going to get there, I don't know. I'm not going to tell you how to run this. I don't know all of the answers of this. But what I do believe is in your ability to do this, like you were hired for this reason, you're process driven, you're very knowledgeable in the space, you are customer centric.

56:16 So I know that anything you're going to develop is going to be way better than what I could give you. So go. And he was able to build the thing that we needed. Yeah. Wow, that's so cool. Rachel, I think there are a lot of gold nuggets in here from this conversation. I'm excited to put this out and let other people hear this. Thank you so much for being with us. And for those people that are like, wow, who is this amazing leader and what's she working on? Where do you want us to send people? Obviously, AccelerateRestorationSoftware.com. Do I have that right? Yep. It's xlrestorationsoftware.com. Awesome. And then anything else you want to tell our audience about forthcoming stuff with Accelerate or other things that you guys are putting out?

56:56 Any webinars upcoming that you want people to participate in? I think something really exciting that we've put out that we've worked on is a lot of SOP guides. So if you're trying to put some SOPs into your organization and you don't know where to start, these are things that you can put in without technology. They're pretty simple. They're basic standard places that you can start from that then you can grow and develop from. But even more powerful if you want to build them into your technology and have automations tied to them. and things that just roll so that you have the standardization across the board. So I think checking that out, we are growing and scaling and doing some fun and amazing things.

57:38 And we're really trying to service contractors and what their needs are. And the pain points that I experienced as a contractor, that's what we're fixing. So excited about what's happening. Well, thanks again for hanging out with us. And I'm sure that we'll get you back on the roster sooner than later, my friend. Awesome. It was so fun. So fun to see you both. Yeah. Thanks, Rachel. All right. We'll see you. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.