Ep 45 Wisdom, William Shatner & Let Downs

0:07 Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. I don't know what you think. I don't know. It's kind of serious. Should we laugh? Amigo, how are you, sir? I've been better. Yeah. I don't mean this in a disparaging way. You look like shit. You know what's so sad, dude? Is that literally when you told me you weren't feeling well, the first thing that came to my mind was, if we do a podcast today, I got to tell him he looks like crap.

0:47 I think I've probably had maybe 100 calories combined for the last 36 hours. Ugh. Really? So yeah, I emptied my system yesterday and I have not quite refilled the tank. So I've been sipping on beef bone broth and tea. When you walked up the stairs to our office this morning and you were winded, there's four stairs. We're not talking about multiple flights here. Dude, there's seven stairs. Yeah, if you did a couple of them twice. Oh, shoot. I got six more stairs to go. Oh my gosh, dude. I thought I was going to have to embrace you when you walked into the office just so you didn't pass out.

1:28 So, dude, I'll tell you something I'm excited about this weekend is I have to go see that new... The new Top Gun movie, man. Oh my gosh. Are you buying aviators specifically for it? You know... Because I'm tempted. A lot of people don't. Coincidentally, I did buy aviators recently. Warby Parker, shout out. Hey, baby. No, I mean... One of my first dreams as a kid was I want to be a fighter pilot. Really? Really? You're too tall. Well, my babysitter was in the Air Force and her husband was a pilot or her boyfriend, I guess, at the time was a pilot anyway. So I was actually the ring bearer at their wedding up at Edwards Air Force Base, I think. Edwards, right? Yeah. Anyhow, I don't know if that was the thing that spurred it or if it was Top Gun later when I was 12 or so. Yeah, I remember.

2:09 It was a long time ago. Top Gun did it for me, man. I'm not going to lie about it. Yeah, no, I am absolutely stoked. I actually had a close buddy that went and saw it already. And he sent me a selfie of him in the theater with his aviators on. So he was in full go mode. So yeah, I'm jazzed. I'm inspired, man. Tom Cruise. Boy, if I could look like some semblance of that when I'm 60 years old. It's the witch magic, man. Unbelievable. Yeah, it's insane. He's a good spokesperson for the Scientology crowd, man. I'll tell you what. Yeah, a good spokesperson for anything. Some serious. Anti-aging. Abs and hair. It's unbelievable. Okay, so last BS topic before we get into something of substance. You know what we're doing tonight? And I'm really stinking excited about it.

2:50 The kids are coming home and we're having a Friday night jam sesh, season four, Stranger Things. We are going to go into full binge mode. Just us and the fam family. So I'm stoked for it. I've not fallen into that Stranger Things trap, but you tell me it's worthwhile. Yeah, it's kind of like... If you're a sci-fi fan, it's kind of one of those things like once you get into it, you're going to have a tough time not staying through to the end. I feel like I'm not... You're not a big sci-fi. I'm not a sci-fi guy. Yeah. I feel like I should be because a lot of my friends are. I know it's like a thing. Well, I feel like if you're a human, you should be into sci-fi. And if you're not, then there's a clear chance that there's something wrong with you.

3:33 But that's just my... That's hilarious. Yeah. I know my daughter got into it and whatever. Yeah. Well, who knows? All right, my friend. What are we ping-ponging today? Well... A lot's been on my mind. You brought up a topic that I think might be a good bounce-off point. What was that thing you were talking about earlier? Well, there's a couple things. I think a bounce-back point is probably best stated. Let's be totally transparent about something. We got some news today that we weren't real excited to get. We took a bit of an ego blow today. Something didn't go through that we were... anticipating wood. And it definitely sucked some wind out of the old sails. And so part of me wanted to wrap a little bit on, I guess, the recovery from a blow to the pride or what feels like a pretty significant roadblock in our path.

4:24 You decided to go there. Okay, great. Thank you. Thanks for just throwing it out there and sucking me into... I know we're publicly going to process that. We can't rewind it now. So you're going to have to think out loud. Yeah. You know, I think when you're starting a company, every setback, no matter how well things are going... feels like a really big deal. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's emotional, right? Yeah. When you're starting a company, you don't have the giant war chest of money that you've accumulated yet. You've got progress, you got traction, you have friends, you have cash flow. But boy, when you get a setback, it just feels so heavy in the beginning.

5:09 Yeah. And I think when you and I look back over our career together, Yeah. Or it's like, you just get your ass whooped in here. I mean, particularly, it was particularly relevant when we were operating the field, right? I mean, you would just have a series of things happen. It's like, right, when something was going wrong, it was like the universe would pile on. Yeah. right? And it was just really difficult. We called it the trough of sorrow, right? Because whether you look to the right or to the left, it's just ominous, right? It's just like you're in the bottom of the Grand Canyon and it's just barriers to the right and the left. And then this long, long path in front of you to get out of the canyon.

5:55 Yeah. And at any time, a flash flood could come on top of that. And it's like, But you know what's interesting though is when we got that news flash that was... not fun this morning." There was a bit of a relief. Because I think sometimes when we're stretching to reach or grab hold of something that wasn't ever quite right. But when you're a new business, it's like every opportunity is just this flashy neon sign of opportunity. I think sometimes all you can see are the attractive bits of this thing in front of you. And so when it falls through, you're like, the financial aspect of it, whatever it is.

6:35 Yeah. Well, the reality of it is with all this stuff, it's all context. I think we were talking about this a little bit with the Blue Collar Boys and just remembering the perspective that comes with the context that each decision or each setback or each opportunity is sitting in. When I got that call this morning... we had that call this morning. Actually, one of the first things I did was I was processing a conversation that we had with a friend in the industry last week, I think it was, or maybe we're pushing two weeks. And they were just talking about some of these really heavy experiences that they were having with their business. And of course, we don't unpack the personal parts of that. But just this reality of...

7:17 this convergence, I think, of professional relationships and personal relationships as they relate to our businesses. And just listening to this individual talk themselves through and us about, hey, this is heavy. It's hard. It's been actually a hard year. It ain't going to kill me, but it certainly is impactful and certainly has weight to it. And so again, I'm thinking about this individual in the year that they've experienced. And I'm thinking about this one Oh man, you got to keep that in perspective. Because it's easy for me to get really caught up in my situation, my thing. And do a little bit of spinning out, if you will, on it or whatever the case may be.

8:00 And it's just like, man, there was something that triggered right away that made me just go, man. Yeah. But there's been some real gnarly stuff that had happened to our fellow entrepreneurs and business owners this year. That's so true. And I think too, when you step back and you think from a position of gratitude... You and I have just been so lucky. Oh, yeah. Yeah, real fortunate. Relationally, we've just been very blessed. And it's been a lot to both of us for certain. I think this particular setback or that deal not going through, blah, blah, blah. I think everybody who's listening can relate. It's like we've all had a deal not go through. It's like... I think something that makes it feel heavier is when there's a relational part to it.

8:43 I think in some ways, it's the relational part. Because when we're working on a deal and just put whatever deal you have in front of you into it, you're putting a part of yourself out there. Yeah. And I think it's the personal part of when a deal doesn't happen or doesn't go through now or it shifts gears or whatever. It's just... the personal relationships and stuff are what hurt the most. It's not the money or that kind of stuff. It's actually kind of interesting that you say that. I think it comes back to some of the reasons that in our professional environments, we struggle with some of this woo-woo language. is it's not necessarily that it feels fluffy all the time. Like we, you know, anytime we talk about like love or using kind of these more emotionally charged references when we're talking about our staff or our relationship as leaders to our downline.

9:34 And one of the things that you and I have promoted over the years and certainly did it in the different leadership roles that we've had and continue to develop is, was really trying to... Well, it's like with Clint Pulver, right? Really talking about this connectivity in relationship with accountability and how much that means to us and how important we believe that is. Anyways, where I'm going with this is I think sometimes what we see is a real struggle to commit to that from leaders because I think there is almost something in them, whether it be subconscious or conscious where they're going, it's like, Yeah, you know what? I've tried that before. And it felt like shit when it didn't work out the way I wanted it to. And the easier response to that then is, I'm just going to callous this wound over.

10:16 And from here on out, I'm not going to do that again. Oh, dude. Right? Oof. And so there's part of me right now, I think that... This is really going out there, I think. But part of me responds to situations like this. Even though I've led in this highly relational way most of my career... It doesn't take away from when it doesn't go the way I want. My initial response is almost always, fuck that. I'm never going to do that again. Yeah. And I don't know if it's super applicable to this one situation. But I think that knee-jerk response is pretty common. So I think part of me right now is going, okay... I had that knee-jerk response of, okay, guard up, not going to do that again.

10:57 And then the reality of it is, man, is that having this kind of relationship or deep relationships with the people that we want to do business with and for the folks that we do business with, it's just, for me, it's the right way to do it. So there's a reality. I might be pissed right now, but I'm going to go back to having that kind of... I just think it's who you and I are. And I think to me, it's so much easier to do business with an open kimono, so to speak. It's like, what you see is what you get. Yeah. You and I don't hide things. And I think the risk in that is that it feels more personal.

11:39 Yeah. Because it is personal. And business is personal. Business is about people. And And yeah, but boy, I think that's a really common reaction or response is, man, I put myself out there and look what happened. Look how my employee took advantage of that or that business partner or that vendor or whatever it is. Yeah. It's like whenever we decide to put ourselves out there or allow ourselves to become emotionally involved with others... Yeah. Yeah. there's the potential for it to hurt. And I think that's a little bit of what you and I are feeling just because we put a lot of ourselves into this one particular relationship. And I think there's something about just sitting in that.

12:21 And it's okay that I'm a little bit sad. that that didn't pan out the way I wanted. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's alright that that's a bummer because I put a lot of myself into that and so did you. And at the same time, it could have potentially turned out totally different. We weren't stupid for putting ourselves out there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. So it's like, okay, we didn't get the outcome that we had envisioned or planned for. But I think we always have a choice after getting burned. Am I going to never do that thing again? Or am I just going to be more conscious and aware going into the next time while still choosing to live in that way? I don't know. I just think whenever we do business in a personal manner, where we really take the relationships into account, there's going to be room for... Yeah.

13:05 disappointment, hurt, and all that stuff. It's interesting. It reminds me a little bit... Not that long ago, we had Dan Pink on the show. We just tiptoed, I think, really surfacy into this whole idea of regret and how to use that in a more positive way. I think actually, we got to do a little piece in CNR with that. But It actually reminds me a lot of this kind of experience and these kinds of scenarios. And I think it's really an applicable tool. And that is that part of what we suffer from when a situation doesn't go the way we want or a deal fails or a merger or some kind of partnership doesn't go in the direction that we want, I think part of what you're wrestling with is you're mourning a version of something that you had created in your head that actually had never come to fruition yet anyways.

13:52 Yeah. And so there's this element of, I think, I know for me personally, I'm looking, I had all these visions of, okay, it's going to go to this. And then from this position, we'll be able to develop that to this thing. And from there, we can carry it on to these multiple new phases. Because that's just kind of how I'm wired anyways. I'm already three years in this relationship down the road. Right. And I think it's interesting because I've caught myself, I think, at times when deals like this don't go through. You're mourning something that actually... You have no idea if it was really going to be that or look anything remotely near what you had created this story. Which is... Which is... I mean, in some ways, it's kind of funny the timing of all this because literally just...

14:33 moments after or just before this, we were on a phone conversation with an investor friend connection of us that they had a deal fall through. And we aren't talking about... We're talking about a whole different scale of deal. Totally. Like, yeah. Tens of millions of dollars and they had to walk away from it. It's like, okay. And what was their response? Well, on to the next thing. Yeah. Yeah. The data didn't support the decision. Data didn't support it. So we moved on, right? No, I think it is true though. I mean, the reality of it is we're all going to be facing scenarios with our businesses. A lot of it's going to look very internal, right? It's going to look like those relationships with... our employees. It's going to look like when we invested in a leadership role or a leadership person on our team or we're a salesperson and we're looking for that next multi-site MSA agreement or something along those lines.

15:22 And you work and you work and you work towards something and you feel like you've invested in giving it every level of effort that it required and needed. And it just ultimately ends up netting a zero, which is going to happen. I mean, that's business 101. And so we're all going to be faced with these kinds of situations. And so I think just trying to deliver some tools that help us manage through that better. And if I had to isolate one, I think we need to do ourself a service and really say, okay, what am I mourning right now? Is it a story or is it actual data-supported things? And if it's the story, maybe just muttering that almost out loud to yourself of, you know what, I'm technically...

16:03 bummed about something that never even came to fruition or we don't even know what it was going to actually look like in the first place? And is there a little bit of weight release when we're just consciously activating, right? Instead of just being sucked into the bummer or the... whatever. Anger, frustration, whatever the case may be. That's a really good point, man. We get so far out ahead of ourselves and we create... We end up creating pain for ourselves because we become so attached to the outcome that we're seeking before it's ever really in motion. Yeah. I mean, the story's in our head, dude. Yeah. It is... For me, I realize more and more as time goes by.

16:43 And of course, Brene Brown introduced that idea to us. And Eckhart Tolle, I think, talks to a great degree about this in A New Earth. Just how 90 plus percent of the thoughts we have in our head are repetitive and non-useful. At any given time, our mind is using us rather than us actually using our head. We create these stories in our head that ultimately, most of the time, create suffering for us. I realize this is all kind of new agey, but I think it's very applicable and I find it all very practical, I guess. It's this idea of being present in the moment. So often our ego, what our ego does is our ego pulls us into the future, what you should be, where you should be going, what you should achieve.

17:24 And our ego also loves to look to the past, to our past successes and our failures. And the ego loves to be defined by what we've done or not done. and what we're going to do in the future. While at the very same time, it just means we're not actually in the moment. We're not actually bringing our full self to what is on my agenda today. I have my meeting with my general manager at 9 o'clock and my head is... a thousand miles away into what should be or what could have been or whatever else. And I'm going to roll into that meeting and I'm not going to be present to the person, the person that I'm engaging with. I mean, it's like, how often am I lost in my thoughts?

18:05 And my thoughts are just totally taking me off course. Yep. You know? Yeah. Yeah. our mind is so good at filling in the gaps. What does this mean? Well, I don't know what it means. For all I know, it means one door closes, another one opens. I'll take that. I've certainly experienced that in my life many, many times. I know you have. And it's like, but my mind wants to conceive just all manner of details about what this change in that relationship means or doesn't mean or what we gave up by walking away from that deal or whatever. But meanwhile, we're here. Yeah. There's still the deals closing. I still got three kids at home.

18:47 My wife's still probably going to text me and say, Hey, can you do dinner tonight? And we're still going to go see Top Gun this weekend, probably. And our business will move forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It is interesting. I think you're right. I think there's just this level of combination. We take all these things, I think, super personally. I know I do. I'm just kind of wired that way anyways. Yeah. I've never been as good of letting it roll off my back as a lot of people. And it's come in really handy. And it's been a tool and a resource that I've used very effectively over the years. And there's certainly times where it's cut me instead of being a benefit. But I think that's just part of the course. You know, as I continue to just come down from that phone call this morning...

19:29 Over and over and over and over in my life, dude, when I've had something I wanted and it didn't work out, I almost always, within minutes or months, I can see why that was better for me that I didn't get that thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. I haven't had many major letdowns in my life that in hindsight weren't necessary in some way. Yeah, this is interesting. And sometimes, not always, sometimes it's in the form of later on, I'm glad I'm not married to that person, that customer, or that... employee or business partner that I was so jazzed about and had all the reasons to be excited and looking forward to that thing. And later, it's like things come to the surface or whatever where you realize, you know what, that might not have been the best employee for me to hire now because maybe you get word of how they conducted themselves at the next company they went to work with.

20:20 And you're like, Oh, okay. I guess I dodged that bullet. We've all had that experience. But likewise, when you get that sale that fell through, it's like later you discover it would have been a really difficult customer. That would have taken a lot out of me to be in that relationship. I think all of us too can think about our dating history and everything else where it just seemed like so weighty. And then you realize, you know what? It just wasn't quite right. In hindsight, I was caught up. I was caught up in the moment. I was caught up in the conversation. I was caught up in what the shiny opportunity. Yeah, I think so much too is like it's an iteration. I think sometimes we feel like certain exchanges or our opportunities are all or nothing. Yeah. And instead of a...

21:00 It's just not right right now. That wasn't the right lift. That wasn't the right... scenario at this moment in time. Yeah. And going back to what you're saying is, you're right. Nine times out of 10, I think I can look backwards and see how things actually ultimately worked out for the best. Not taking away from training or proactivity or strategic thinking or any of those things. I'm not saying you just go with the vibe. Yeah. But it is true that most of the time when you look backwards, it was like either there was a great lesson from it that gave me tools and resources that I didn't have previously Yeah. it wasn't the right iteration or version of something that ultimately it sends you back to the drawing board, makes you do some more critical thinking that makes you iterate the next thing that actually was a better version of something.

21:48 And yeah, maybe it's saved from buyer's remorse or some kind of relational type engagement. It is true. I think the challenge for me though is even though I'm certainly not the youngest guy on the planet at 45, I've got plenty of battle scars and stories. And yet it is still pretty difficult in the moment to have this kind of positive bounce of, you know what, nine times out of 10, it normally works for the best. You were pretty hot, dude. I could read it in your text messages. I'm like, Oh, man. I also like that part of you. It's like you've got a fiery spirit. You feel things, you run hot and I appreciate that.

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25:36 So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash fcg. The other thing we were talking about this earlier, and I wasn't sure how all this was going to connect. You and I have our notes where we keep track of ideas and things we want to talk about. And I read this Harvard Business Review thing about creating an open door for employees to come back, which is not necessarily what I was going to reference here. But just that... How disappointing is it when you have somebody good that leaves? You talk about... sadness and frustration and letdown. And I know some people listening to this, in fact, I know, because we've had some clients who have had that happen. There's somebody they just invested in, invested in, invested in, and leave to go make more money or something.

26:22 And oh man, it's like, on the one hand, you're so personally invested in them. You want them to be successful. You want them to go make more money and the loss to your business. Right. Your business is your own too, right? And so it's almost like a part of your body was taken out when you have a key person that you cared about and you wanted to see... You know what I mean? It's just... it's really hard. It's really hard. And so when I read this article from Harvard Business Review, and undoubtedly, they're referencing more like large companies, like creating a doorway back into your company and de-stigmatizing when people choose to leave for a different opportunity and all that kind of stuff. It's like, yeah, that's great.

27:03 That's great when you have an organization of 5,000 or 50,000 and you can hire somebody that's in charge of employee alumni and There's some cool ideas in there. But when you're a company with 12 people, right? Yeah. Or six or 20. And it's really hard. It's really hard. And I think it goes back to this first point is that you can't have the pleasure or the joy of... making a difference in people's life, right? Like really moving the needle and affecting things. If you're not willing every now and then to confront that, the pain of... And sometimes it's betrayal.

27:45 Like somebody just betrays that, an investment you've made in them. And then other times it's just the sadness of, okay, they got a better gig. This is good for them. So I think it... I don't know what I'm offering here to whoever happens to listen to this, but I... I think there's no way out of that. To avoid that, you mean? Yeah, to avoid the pain of letdown, whatever kind it is. That deal that didn't happen, that business partnership, that whatever, that employee that leaves. If you're going to care, if you're going to care, if you have that give a shit about people... you are going to feel let down. You're going to go through those things. Yeah. You know what? I think you actually tapped into a really interesting chain of thought here as it relates back to the original topic is, it's what we do in response.

28:33 And I think one of the things that you had pointed out in that article was to basically very proactively, when that moment happens... actually already have something in place that says, Hey, the door's open. It's not like they threw a hand grenade into the room on their way out the door. That's different. That's not what we're referring to here. Yeah. But it's this idea of if the individual left strong, and it's a sad situation because it's a letdown on this kind of picture that you had and where your business was going, what person this role this person would have in it. is that not allowing our ego to take over so that as they walk out the door, we don't then slip into this behavior that demonizes them for leaving or demonizes them for taking this opportunity.

29:17 And keeping a healthy sense of communication and a healthy door open so that maybe at some point in the future, somebody could step back into that relationship and participate in that. And I think the same rule applies to... business relationships or partnerships or deals where, hey, right now, it's not the right fit. So don't spin out, don't lose control, don't do something, say something or act in such a way that then actually closes the door of the story that actually still had the potential to be created. And it's so hard to do in the moment. And I think probably the most relatable version of this, which is why I love that story that you or that article is, This probably is most likely the kind of situation that we're going to feel the most with our employees, key leaders, key influencers, people on the team that we're investing in.

30:06 That's probably the most common ground that we're going to have this type of scenario happen. And it's just like, okay, well, let's take a breather. Let's identify the portions of this thing that aren't accurate, that they were just a story that I was beginning to create or envision. And... Can we separate ourselves personally from this? Instead of it being a personal thing, can we just look at the data for a moment and say, okay, how do I want to respond to this rejection? How do I want to respond to this individual leaving my team or this business deal that was a no? Yeah. And do I want to respond in such a way that I'm going to still admire myself? Right?

30:46 Yeah. And leave the door open. Can I choose to consider that it wasn't personal, like this other person had legitimate reasons for their choice? Right? Yeah. That are maybe hard for me to understand, but feel just as compelling to them about... They feel just as good about the decision not to do this thing or to leave the company for this other opportunity. as I feel sad about the choice. Yeah. Right? I think it's just considering that I don't have all the information and I could be wrong. The reaction I'm having to this could be wrong. It could be misplaced. I was telling you, I've been watching in the mornings. My wife puts on this Franciscan monk on YouTube in the mornings.

31:29 I wasn't sure where you were going there because you just started watching my wife in the morning. Which I'm like, that's cool. It's good for your marriage. But where are you going with this? This guy named Richard Rohr. And Richard Rohr, he's a Franciscan monk in New Mexico. Anyway, he was talking about addiction. He gives these homilies. He gives these talks and they're really good. But he's just got this really mellow voice. It's kind of this mellow vibe. My wife likes to set when the kids are getting ready for school and stuff because it's not usually mellow in our household. Between my 16-year-old and my 14-year-old in particular, it is some level of war waging that is almost always happening. So Kara felt like at least part of the solution might be to have a Franciscan monk in the mix.

32:12 And so... And I've actually gotten used to it and I enjoy it. I stand there with my coffee and I'll stand there and listen four or five minutes and then go about my business, come back and whatever. But he was talking about addiction. And I thought, God, this is interesting. I don't... I wouldn't consider myself an addict in the way that we generally talk like an addiction to drugs or alcohol or something like that. Yeah. He said the universal addiction of the, particularly the American mind, is that we are addicted to our perspective and our way of thinking. We can get locked in and committed and loyal to the way that we see things and interpret things. Oh man, yeah. And just how much it has a lot of the same outcomes of any other addiction in terms of the choices it causes us to make the harm that we choose to cause toward others, all that stuff, purely because it's hard for us to step outside of our perspective and consider another perspective on this situation or this moment.

33:12 Yeah. And I have experienced... I wish somehow I could live in that space more often where I can be more open-minded and not have a rush to judgment or... get that story going in my head. But I have felt what that's like in a number of situations where, wow, I'm really upset about this. And I'm able to just zoom out and create some distance between myself and that situation and think about it in a more open-minded way. And it's like, then all of a sudden, you start to consider all these other reasons, possibilities, what else is at play here? And I think in that place is wisdom. Yeah. That's so applicable. That's really applicable to this conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

33:52 It is. It's funny because there's all these little coin terms that everybody uses like, the way forward is failure, fail quick, and all these things. And we all understand the premise behind that and how that makes sense. And if you're not trying, or if you get frozen because you're afraid of what a possible failure outcome may look like... I think it's an easier understanding when we step out of that more like, how do I put this? This idea of knowing something versus experiencing it. Fail quick because it'll put you on the right path and all those things. We understand them mentally. But experiencing them doesn't always align.

34:35 It doesn't always line up and give us the motivation that we need. I think what's unique about what you're saying right now is it gives us some more proactive way to engage these kinds of situations. And it's less about getting totally pumped by failing. And it's more realistic in the sense of just take a breath. Just pause for a moment when you have this exchange or this letdown or this breakup or whatever these things are give it a moment to air out and ask yourself a few questions before you take any kind of action. Because normally, that knee-jerk reaction that we're all about to take often won't give us the result that we're looking for. And it removes our ability from being able to learn from a failure or something not going the way that we want it to.

35:20 And so that's what's interesting about this idea of this addiction to our perspective is... if you can buy into that idea, it allows you a little bit of freedom that, okay, if my perspective is not the all accurate, 100% true, then that gives me the freedom to maybe learn something from this situation, to take a break, to take a step away from, to depersonalize. And de-escalate it in our own head. Maybe there's something else going on. Maybe there's a different angle on this. Yeah. Okay. So one of the other little notes I had... This is from weeks ago. I added this in. I was listening to Brene Brown on her Dare to Something podcast. She has like two or three podcasts now.

36:00 I don't know which one it was. But she... Is there Dare to Lead, I think? Yeah, it might have been the Dare to Lead podcast. And she had Charles Duhigg on and they were talking about habits. Charles Duhigg, he wrote the book called Tiny Habits, I think. Anyway, we'll have to have the show notes. I think 100 calories in three days is... It's affecting me. That's it. Oh, man. But he shared or she did. I think he did. He shared a quote from Judd Apatow, which he is one of the most successful movie directors, I think, in history. He wrote mostly comedies, stuff like that. Seth Rogen is in his shows. The Hangover, that was Judd Apatow.

36:43 He's done like 50 movies or something crazy. Yeah. But this quote he said was very interesting. And maybe it's a big part of his success and why people want to work with him. Why he's been such a successful director. I don't know. But he made this comment, showing disrespect to someone will cause them to sacrifice themselves to destroy you. Ouch. And I'm thinking about that in the context of our conversation of just how human it is to be hurt, angry when something doesn't go our way, right? When the story doesn't match the outcome. Yeah. Something happens like, whoa, this wasn't how it was supposed to be. Yeah. It shouldn't be this way. Something's wrong here. This should not have happened. How we as humans naturally react, like our gut reaction happens.

37:25 is anger, frustration, fear, sadness, whatever, all these negative things when something bad happens. And I think as leaders, knowing that about humanity, I think it just gives us that much more caution in how we... I think it's another reminder as to why it's so important for us to step outside of ourselves and to discipline ourselves to see others as humans, just like me. Yeah. And to approach separation or a failed deal or something with that kind of... gentleness. It's not something we talk a lot about with leaders. Yeah. Right. But I think there's something to that. There's a respect. I think that even in times where there's a separation or something doesn't work out, is just being conscious of, am I respecting this person in this equation?

38:11 Am I being respectful? Because boy, I've seen that when they said that Judd Apto quote, I'm like, whoa. I mean, that explains a lot of the crazy stuff that happens in our businesses. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. when people feel disrespected, all bets are off. It's like you and I have had this happen with... Fortunately, not a lot. But I can think of a couple instances where I was not... Disrespect is a big white umbrella. There's a lot of ways to disrespect people. And I've certainly been guilty of that with employees and colleagues and stuff over the years. And boy, when you disrespect somebody, you can expect there's a story that's going to form there. And it may...

38:52 it may create some action that is really, really unpleasant. Well, and I think it also supports this idea or I guess gives credit to the fact that we can cycle into that. Oh, easily. We can feel, in quotes, disrespected after a whatever, a breakup, an employee leaving, whatever the case may be. And so I think that quote or that perspective just helps us remember, there is a strong chance that if we act purely on default, We're going to end up throwing ourselves under the bus too. That's it. It's like we have a strong potential that what we say, what we do, how we behave is going to have some pretty negative effects on us. And it's so interesting. I feel like there is part of me that when we do our shows and we have some of these conversations, as diverse and as crazy as the world is...

39:39 a lot of the things that we discuss, a lot of the principles, a lot of the opportunities that we have to unpack certain ideas and concepts, they still come back to one or two, three threads. And so it's really difficult for me to detach all this from the whole ego conversation of... Just how many times a day, how many times a week are we just getting so swept up in these natural animalistic responses to the situations that we experience? And how often, if you just look at the quotes, the statistics, these deep thinkers that are unpacking humanity, it comes back around to these default behaviors that all of us are susceptible to.

40:27 But the more time that we put in and invest in taking time to think through, taking time to get activated in the moment instead of responding out of default, it just is a game changer, man. It's like the difference, I think, between really elite performing individuals and the masses. Mm-hmm. I think you can point to a lot of people that are performing at an elite level and you can identify how much more often in most situations they are aware and present right then. Not worrying about what could be, what should be. They're not in the past. They're not in the future. They're not pre-worrying about what someone's going to feel about them when they go back around and say, Yeah, I celebrated too early.

41:10 That deal didn't go through. but they're in the moment. And by being really aware and present in the moment, they are able to deploy a whole new set of tools that give them the highest chance of having a successful outcome versus just getting sucked up and swept away of these animalistic default responses. It's wild. Dude, I'm still kind of hanging on that comment about wisdom because I think all of us want wisdom. What is wisdom? Well, I think wisdom is... Wisdom is considering all possibilities and hanging there long enough to be able to select the best path forward. Right? Yeah. So easy on paper. And it's like...

41:50 Wisdom though, it's almost like we have to step out of our side of ourselves to really take hold of wisdom because we are so freaking addicted to what got... And I think part of it too is that we can become really addicted to the behaviors and choices that got us here. Yeah. Yeah. would become so reliant on what helped me build my company to 2 million that those same... I mean, it's just... God, there's nothing new under the sun, is there? It's like, what got you here won't get you there. And yet it's so true. And that's wisdom. It's wisdom that gives us a different answer. It says, you know... this best practice or this mantra that we've been living and breathing to get us to 2 million is probably actually not going to be the thing that gets us to 5 or gets us to 10.

42:39 But wisdom is able to step outside of that and potentially talk to other people, gather other perspectives. But wisdom is the one that says, okay, hold on. Let's do a little bit of a pause break here. Let's zoom out. Yeah. It's also why a guy like William Shatner... I don't know. I was hearing this on a podcast. Somebody referenced this. William Shatner had a chance to go up in Bezos's... Oh, yeah. Near Earth orbit or something that they did. Yeah. And he got off the ship at the end in the press conference and he was visibly very emotional. Yeah. And he said, if only the whole world, all the people of the world could have the experience I just had. We do away with all our petty bullshit disagreements.

43:20 I don't know if he said that, but that was somebody's narrative on it. Yeah. It's just, it's important. Other astronauts and people have been known to say this, that it changes their life when they're able to see just how small they are and just how, just the biological sameness of us all. It's like we're all on the same big floating orb in the universe, you know? And there's something about making that connection And I think in a metaphorical way, that's wisdom. It's zooming out. It's interesting. And it's saying, I probably don't understand all the different facets of this situation. I'm getting all worked up about this thing right here because of what it's going to mean for me short term, money-wise, or what it's going to mean for me. Now I got to go recruit another person.

44:01 It's like, we're so wrapped up about a piece of this situation. It's hard for us to step back and see the bigger picture. And yet, that's where... It's where wisdom is. And I think we have so many examples of wise people in our culture. We did little snippets. Warren Buffett is known for, Hey, when everybody else is going crazy selling stuff off, he's buying. I mean, that's a common investor principle. You buy when everybody else is selling. That's where the opportunity lies. And yet, the conventional wisdom is... Sell it off. Oh my God, it's dropping like a rock. But it's wisdom that steps back and says, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, there's an opportunity inside this. I think that's a perfect place to land the plane, my friend.

44:43 Yeah. All right, guys. Okay. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, we'll see you. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.