Ep 43 - "First Onsite, Changing The Culture Of Restoration" With Jenny Vandehey

0:00 How are you doing, man? You know, because you've asked me, it's really given me the opportunity to analyze deeply how I'm actually doing. No, I'm kidding. I'm doing fine. Actually, it's funny. I reached out to a friend I hadn't talked to in a while. I was like, hey, how's it going, man? And he replied in like... Like he knows, like this would be my question too. He says, dude, that's a really loaded question. Like, what exactly do you mean? I've got good things. I got terrible things. I got neutral things happening in my life. What question do you want me to answer? Are you ready for the full audit? I'm like, all right, fair enough. And then I listed out like three very specific questions. Yeah. Listen, we've got a really cool show today. Jenny VandeHeh was introduced to us by Michelle Blevins at CNR, which turned out to be just a really awesome intro, which Michelle is awesome at making.

0:49 But I mean, Jenny has a very interesting title and role in our industry. And I'm excited about the possibility of seeing more companies adopt this role, but she's the vice president of culture and experience. Yeah. which is an incredibly broad title. And as we talked to her, she's involved. It sounds like all the areas of the business. Yeah. The thing that stood out to me is when she said experience, she clarified later, that is both internal and external client. So employee, right? And client experience, which is really great. I love it. Yeah. So, I mean, culture, like real culture conversation. Like what are the... I love how she says core behaviors as a focus point versus core values.

1:32 Those are my words. I think she talks about behaviors, but that whole concept of what are the behaviors that drive our core values, it's just a really interesting angle that she brought up in the call. I'm stoked for people to hear this. You and I love to geek out on culture stuff and leadership behaviors anyways. I think a lot of you are going to come away inspired to look at your company culture. You don't have to be a first on site with 2,400 employees to impact and grow the culture of your business. That's one of the things we talked about is this applies to all of us. Yeah, I think you're right. I think this should be less about what we can and can't do based on size and far more. Just get your brain thinking. from the right perspective.

2:12 And she does a great job of lighting a fire and giving us some perspective on the importance and the value of making this a priority. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. What'd you think? I don't know. It was kind of serious. Should we laugh? Jenny, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I've been really looking forward to this ever since Michelle at CNR introduced us.

2:55 And we had a brief phone call and I learned a little bit about your role. First of all, I was intrigued by your role as VP of Culture and Experience. When I first saw that title, first of all, it was very atypical. I guess that's not a title that we see a lot in our industry. It's a title we see emerging in the technology sector and some of these other really cutting-edge industry sectors. But in restoration, to see that title, I was like, Oh, this is really cool. I bet there's some really interesting story behind that. Pairing with that too, just knowing a little bit about First On Sites' crazy growth. But I mean, Period. And so the idea that they prioritize culture and experience in that fast moving of a machine is just very interesting to me.

3:45 And I think it'll be really interesting for more people to hear some of your passion about culture and so forth. So anyways, really excited to have you here. Also, this is right on the heels of you launching a brand new podcast yourself. Right? So I'm sure we'll talk about that today. Can we just open up more generally with... Give us a little bit about your background because you have a very unique background, as do many of us that came into the industry. We came from totally different industry sectors. And you've got just a very eclectic mix of experience coming into this. Can you just talk about your journey to restoration? Yeah, absolutely. And I do. And I think that's something that I've started to really... own. And we are actively encouraging our team members to own, right? Because we all have these kind of hybrid collections of experience and it's valuable.

4:29 So I started my career in marketing and advertising, always being drawn to people, what makes them tick. And spent a long time in that space, really focused on strategy and qualitative research. What do people want? What's meaningful? But got to a point where I felt a little disconnected from not really feeling the impact. Like, I would come up with these great insights about what really matters. And it's like, well, we're not changing the product. Just go make it sound great and sell it. And that was a little soul crushing for me and found my way into the world of brand consulting, working a lot with organizations that were merging, coming together, maybe just doing a rebrand, but really helping to figure out the soul of that company.

5:13 What are we here for? What are we here to do? Why do we come into work every day? And that exposed me to just how much needs to happen inside of an organization before you can go and come up with an awesome tagline or advertising campaign. That was really where I found my passion, which is... Let's build it on the inside. Let's focus on the people and the organization so that it's real. So that when you do work with an ad agency and you give them a brief, they can authentically promote your service or your product because it's real. For me, that just connected the missing piece of the puzzle. It's still working with people. It's understanding what matters to them. It's finding that soul or purpose of an organization, which is so important.

5:57 We know that's what people want when they come to work. It's bringing that together and helping an organization turn it into something beyond just a poster on the wall. How does that show up in performance reviews? How does that show up in policies? Should we even call it policies? It's all these things. And that was really how this role at First On Sight emerged because I started as we were rebranding and bringing several organizations together to be one company. And I think that Many companies going through that see the launch of that new brand as the end. And that's kind of the fatal mistake of that is the beginning.

6:37 And if you are not prepared to then take that brand and turn it into just how you do things day to day, live the values, make sure you understand the purpose. How do we show that day to day? Do people understand it? Then that's just a very expensive exercise. to look really beautiful on the outside, but you're missing... You're not nurturing the soul of that company. So yeah, it was a natural progression of where the company's at. But now that we are out there as first on site, we need to nurture that and continue to build. We have the exterior. We have this beautiful container, but we have to fill it with meaning. And as we continue to acquire companies, we need to bring them into that container to also fill it with meaning and contribute to that.

7:22 So that's how my role in culture and experience was born. Experience being both employee experience and client experience. And really about that bird's eye view, you know, where are there gaps? How do we solve for those gaps? Where do we, where can we innovate to solve for those things? Who do we need to bring together in a room? Because again, everything related to any kind of experience touches many functions and departments and people. And sometimes the hardest thing is getting them all together in a room, but that's where the magic happens of like, here's how we can collaborate. So yeah, that's a little bit of how I landed in restoration. Extracurriculars that, believe it or not, sometimes show up in my workday.

8:07 I'm a volunteer birth doula. I was able to do that a bit more when I was consulting. And now it's more of a friends and family birth doula, which for those who aren't familiar, it's essentially a birth coach supporting women as they bring babies into the world. And during the rebrand, I always joked that it's kind of the same thing. We're having a baby and I'm not here to do all the work, but I'm here to support and make you feel heard and seen and informed along the way. That's really what a doula does, right? And then I'm also an herbalist. I love plants and nature and plant medicine has been a really great way for me to connect to my roots. I'm from Sweden. And so people know to come to my office if they need some tea or...

8:48 something for whatever ailments going on. And so it's been really fun to kind of bring those worlds together as part of what I bring to the organization and model for others that we want to see all of you as well. Don't be afraid to talk about the cool extracurricular things you do or passions that you have outside of work. We want to know that about you. The first thing, Jenny, that strikes me as you're talking... So first off, for those of you listening, you're hearing someone that has progressed substantially in this focus, in this passion, in this heart. And you can hear it in the words and the terminology and the perspectives that you're sharing already in terms of how you focus on this culture component and the importance of...

9:29 us really cherishing our people and building and developing them. For a lot of the folks listening, we have smaller companies. We're sub $10 million a year, whatever. Maybe we've got 80 some employees at tops. And a lot of listeners don't even have businesses that size. I think I just want to draw a connection here is that with your guys' team, you saw that in order to grow, in order for you to continue to expand and really have a profound impact on the markets that you're operating in, this thing needed to happen. This needed to become a priority for you. And I think what I just want to encourage people a little bit in is that you don't have to wait until you're a really large, unwieldy organization to realize that this culture thing is so foundational.

10:14 And so could you just give some perspective of... You guys are on a completely different planet in a lot of ways. We're going to dive more into that. But this idea, what do you say to a small business owner that's got, let's say, 10 or 15 employees, they're wearing 15 hats, and they're just trying to even understand if this is something they should invest competency and energy into? What would you say to that person taking that initial step into this perspective? Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that up. I forget that that is a barrier, right? Or perception that we're not there yet. And my response would be, this is the perfect time. It gets so much harder as you grow, right? And especially if you don't have that North Star or sort of nucleus to keep coming back to, you're suddenly having to take fragmented processes and ways of doing And sure, we're marching in the same direction.

11:12 When you have a smaller company, it's much easier to align around that. It's much easier to literally talk to every employee and get buy-in or co-create what that looks like. When I was consulting, I worked with plenty of small companies. Sometimes it was a single business owner. They were their business. But it's still critically important to define who are you? What are you here for? How do you want people to feel when they interact with you and your brand? It doesn't matter if you're one employee or thousands. And it comes back to those same questions, right? And I often... suggests that you just start with conversations with your team members.

11:52 What do you feel when you're at work? What is that feeling when you walk in? How would you describe us to your family? If our company was a guest at a dinner party, would they be the crazy uncle or would they be the quiet, wise person in the corner? What is that personality that we want to lean into? But also your customers. Ask them the same questions. That's where you're going to get to the heart of who you are. And sometimes when you're in it, it's harder to see. And so it's really insightful when you listen to employees and to customers and hear it in their language. That can spark the purpose. That can spark some of these personality traits. And that's a relatively easy exercise.

12:33 It does not need to be extensive research and testing and all that it can be. And sometimes it needs to be, right? But most of the time, it can start with simple conversations that help you sort of self-reflect on the company we're building and who we want to be. The other thing I would say is core values are, of course, very important. Most companies have core values established. But But I would argue that we're getting to this place where behaviors are becoming as important, if not more important. These are the behaviors that we need to achieve the business results that we're going for. Yes, I love that. There is that clear link between culture and performance business results, right?

13:16 Look at the goals that we've set out. How do we need our people to behave for us to get there? And what is getting in the way of that behavior? That's where you start focusing. And a company that I love to use as an example of just best in class is HubSpot. They have something called the Culture Code. and it's publicly available. And it spells out in very clear, simple language what they stand for, what they don't stand for, what they celebrate, what they don't tolerate, and why. And you walk away knowing exactly what to expect. Whether you're a potential employee or customer, you get a really good sense of what they're about.

13:58 And I think that clarity and simplicity is so important. I think we still have work to do in that space that how do we make sure people really get what we mean by these words? And so I think yes, core values, but also behaviors. Yeah. I almost wonder if we're seeing this transition where those are actually about to become one and the same. Instead of us having these core value theories or concepts that... Let's just get much more clear. Let's go ahead and take the second step and just identify, here are these 5-6 things that we do at a core level, our behavior, our attitude, and let those speak for themselves. I got one follow-up question. And then I know Chris is jumping at the bit too.

14:40 We had a guest not that long ago, Clint Pulver. He's an interesting individual in terms of his focus on culture. And he's the undercover millennial and has written a really excellent book in terms of culture and keeping people on a team. And he really focuses in on this concept of this marriage between accountability and connection. And I bring this up because he's from an outside. He's an independent party. And so it's very easy for him to... it can be easier for him to hear honest communication. But he's not necessarily in a position where he's doing full-on implementation in these businesses. And so I want to hear your perspective on this marriage between connectivity and accountability.

15:22 And how are you seeing that in your guys' team and the effects of that on creating this culture that you want to create? I like the idea of the marriage of those two things. And we've talked a lot about both topics. Actually, accountability is one of our core values. And I think it's one that we continue to kind of challenge ourselves on what that really means today, right? Actually, our very second podcast episode was all about reframing accountability and the importance of ownership in that and acceptance that there are things that we can control and there are things that we can't. And rather than blame everything on the things we can't control, we're going to How can we prepare the things that we can control so that the unknowns are more easily tolerated?

16:09 And I really like that because we live in a world where there are a lot of things outside of our realm of control. And if that's gonna shut somebody down to say, I can't do my job because of all these things, it just doesn't work. It's not the world we live in, right? But if you know that there are things outside of your control, what steps can you take in your life to show up and be more resilient when those things happen. And so it was a conversation with a former Green Beret who now works with organizations and coaching. It was a fascinating perspective from real military scenarios where there is, again, a lot you can't control, but excuses are not a thing there, right?

16:51 You have to take ownership or you let your team down in pretty major ways. So I think accountability is a big one. And it's also not just personal accountability, right? The big part of accountability as a leader is holding others accountable. And I think that can be harder. It's one thing to say, well, I did my job. But... It's a harder conversation to say, hey, that didn't quite hit the mark and we need more. Or this is behavior that is not acceptable here. That's a really hard thing to say. But I think, again, tying that back to culture, culture is only as good as the things that we tolerate. And if we tolerate things that are toxic or... not inclusive or whatever it might be, it takes away from all the good things that are happening.

17:35 It really overshadows a lot of the good things. And so, yeah, accountability is a big one. And then connection is everything. And it's been very tough during the pandemic as we're growing, acquiring companies to foster that, there's not much that really replaces in-person connection, right? And we see, we feel the energy of those moments where we've been able to come back to that and actually gather. It is a completely different thing. And I think that's where trust is built. And without trust, it's really hard to accomplish other things, right? That's sort of a basic need. And trust is built when you have those in-person moments of connection that may or may not even be about work.

18:20 But having a cup of coffee with someone. We had a general manager visit a couple of weeks ago and we went out to dinner and just connected as people. And now when we see each other's names, it's not just some person sitting in some office in corporate. It's you start to see the person and I think that just fosters trust and collaboration. knowing that people have your back and we're all working towards the same thing. And so I just, yeah, I feel very strongly about connection. And again, as the work world is changing and we are looking at remote and hybrid team members, how can we provide that same level of connection or at least opportunities to that bring in some of the in-person to supplement the remote lifestyle, because that's not going to go away.

19:05 I really like the idea of the marriage of those two things. And I don't know, I'd have to think about, I might throw some other things into the mix, right? To kind of round out what I think is important, but those are certainly critical components of culture. Do you feel like from your perspective, I think what we see is people be hesitant on the accountability side because they feel very exposed, I think, right now in terms of their ability to recruit or replace. And of course, I know there's probably a very large conversation around proactivity and being more intentional about bench steps before you're desperate and need to fill a seat. But that aside, I think people really are struggling to create accountability because they're afraid people will leave.

19:45 And when I think about my children and things of that nature, I go, man, those parameters, those safety mechanisms, those boundaries are really healthy for them. Even if they can't convey it, they just end up having a better life when there's some clarity on the no-go zones and those things. How do you... I mean, you're a culture supporter, right? You're... Your background, your skill set, the direction you come into this company is so different than our industry. How are you seeing that play out in terms of that accountability? What are the positive aspects of those lines when we draw them? And are the right people... How are they affected by this accountability and these... You know what I mean? When we have the right people, what does that look like compared to what some of these fear factors are that we have?

20:30 Yeah. I mean, I think naturally we think about risk of those hard lines or holding people accountable. It's like, are we going to lose people? But then I always think about, well, what about everyone else who we want to keep, whose work lives are impacted, maybe whose lives in general are impacted by lack of accountability or lack of clear lines where we need to have them? What about those people? And will we lose them? And I would rather keep those people, right? And so it's always like, who are we letting down by not doing this or by tolerating something that really shouldn't be tolerated? And there's no easy answer, right? We want to be a place where people who we need to kind of gather and support and develop.

21:13 But I do, I think accountability is really critical because you're letting the team down if you allow things to happen that are impacting people. Performance safety, emotional safety, all of those things. They're all important. I really love right at the opening of our conversation, you talked about, you asked this question, what is real about our company? And I think this is a conversation that is missing from a lot of our culture conversations. And I think particularly in the service sector, this is really, really common. You've got what the marketers and the salespeople are saying about the company out in public. And of course, to a degree, it's aspirational.

21:54 The messages, the storyline that we're telling about first on site, XYZ restoration, whatever, is aspirational in nature. As salespeople, we're casting vision. Essentially, here's what our company can do. Here's who we can help. Here's how we can help all those things. But then at times, there's a disconnect between what's actually experienced in the field, both by the people on the team, like their experience as members of the team, but then also as customers, of course. What does that service level actually feel like in delivery versus the story we were told? through the marketing or the sales. So I love this idea of what is actually real about us right now versus aspirational and just how important it is for there to be that connection between sales and service.

22:39 How do you see that dynamic first on site? And how do you guys have a rhythm of communication that helps you tease out what's real right now? What's happening in the field versus what we're saying about ourselves? Yeah. Determining what is real about a company. I think There's a few things we have in place and there's things that we plan to implement because it can't just be a one-time exercise. During the rebrand, we did go through this. We did lots of workshops and stakeholder interviews to, again, understand who are we? What is the soul of First On Sight? How do we make sure this captures that in a way that feels right? But again, we're growing constantly. It's a conversation that's ongoing.

23:19 It's a conversation that we need to keep having over and over again and involve. as our people evolve and we grow into ourselves and adapt. And so there's a few ways that we get that kind of temperature check, right? Is this resonating? Or is there somewhere where the experience really does not align with what we have said that we're about? We have a team of, we call them Rise Ambassadors. That was established during the rebrand as a way to kind of spread information, democratize information and knowledge, make sure this wasn't just an effort happening at the top down, that people are part of it and feel like they can champion it because they're involved.

24:00 And then post-rebrand, that group has continued to serve this role of really transformation champions. And part of that role is to provide two-way feedback, making sure that our people are always represented in the boardroom, so to speak, right? That we can also throw out questions to say, hey, does this resonate? Hey, here's a campaign we're about to launch. Does it feel right? Is there something that doesn't match up, right? We're about to launch an internal culture campaign that's really built on the words that our people have used to describe who we are. So it's kind of fill in the blank, like Mad Lib style. First on site is where I blank. We pushed out a survey and just let people fill in the blank for a number of statements.

24:44 And so these posters and social media posts and coffee mugs are going to feature their words of, who we are. This is where I make a difference. This is where I learn. This is where I make friends. And the whole goal there is to say, again, this is about what we decide we are. And we are evolving and growing. We're becoming, right? And it's okay to be in the becoming space. Because we're still learning, we're still growing, and we can't ignore that every time we bring a company on board, they have really valuable things to bring to us in terms of culture, in terms of best practices. Sometimes it's little things. Like someone was telling me that one of our teams in Florida, just the way they recognize people is really unique.

25:26 And it's like, that's awesome. Like, we want to hear about that. What else? You know, what else can we borrow with pride as we grow into this? our company and continue to shape it. So it's very much this iterative process of staying connected to our people, finding ways to have those conversations. And that is hard at the size that we're at, right? And not everyone checks email, of course. So how can we be connected to our team in the field in a way that is inclusive of how they communicate, what their workday looks like, And then we're also, we just planned out a listening tour that we're going to be doing around the US and Canada this year and next year. And the goal really is to ensure that we understand the experience of our team at all levels.

26:12 We're actually going to be doing some ethnography. So that's really about just observing, right? Like, what's the office space like? It's really about what, again, coming back to those behaviors, what are the unspoken things that are valued or suggested that are valued? And do they align with what we're building? You know, if we say that we stand for this thing, is that supported in these symbols that whether that's like posters on the wall or coffee in the, you know, in the break room, like little things that really define the experience? So I think just soaking that up and being with our people, not to present at them, but to listen to them and hear their experiences of why they chose us, why they stuck with us.

26:58 What would make it better? What's getting in the way of just doing your job? Simple things that you have to sometimes invite people to share. that they might not either way share. Those are the types of things we want to understand. And again, it's not a one-time exercise, but it needs to continue. It needs to be ongoing. I think too, there's this reality of be prepared for what you're going to hear. That was actually going to be my follow-up question. So it's interesting. One of the thought leaders that Brandon and I really enjoy is Jim Dethmer. Have you heard of Jim Dethmer? He runs the Conscious Leadership Group. That definitely brings a bell. So fantastic. And anyway, one of the things he talks about is creating a feedback-rich environment, which as you're talking, I'm like, that seems like the major objective that you're speaking of is how do we create this environment where people feel safe to provide critical feedback?

27:46 But he makes an interesting comment and this leads to my follow-up question. He said that it's really critical as leaders if we want our people's feedback and we want real feedback, that we create safety around that. And how you create a safe container for that feedback is by disappointing yourself as a leader when you receive any kind of critical or negative feedback or what we've received that way, is to instead of starting from the position of, is this feedback true? Instead, begin with the posture of, how is this feedback true? Right. So really, there's a humility in that. Because I think as leaders, sometimes we get critical or negative feedback from our people or we hear something from the field.

28:28 We do a survey. Brandon and I, we had a survey every quarter. We would survey our people and it was pretty in-depth. We got a lot of data from it. And there were times where the natural response that comes up is, they just don't understand. They don't understand the big picture. When we get feedback, maybe from the field, from our frontline folks that are saying, we need this, we have to have that, this is broken, this doesn't work. Sometimes our instinct as leaders is to be from the ivory tower, so to speak, is they just don't understand. And so we're closed off to whatever feedback we want because they don't get it. It was not good feedback. And Deathmore really talks about, number one, you're probably wrong a lot of the time if you take that posture as a leader.

29:10 But two, it breaks that trust environment. And I'm just curious, how do you guys process through? Because I imagine as you've been assimilating all of these acquisitions and the mergers and all these teams from disparate brands and cultures, there's been some negative stuff. And I'm curious how you guys process through that and respond. Yeah. My first reaction is sometimes we just don't get it, right? Sometimes corporate just doesn't get it. How can you get it? This is my opinion. I want us to become obsessed with feedback, customer feedback and employee feedback, because whether or not you hear it doesn't change the fact that it exists, right? And if those perceptions exist, or those experiences have happened and we don't know about it, then how are we going to fix it?

29:52 How are you going to make it right? I really do believe that sometimes just... Making something right, whether it's with a client or a team member, can actually redefine the whole relationship and experience that they have with you. Right? I think we're just used to not being heard as people. And we just assume that we won't be heard. And I don't want us to be that place where, you know, they just don't get it. Meaning us. I think that's part of the goal for the listening tour is like, help us get it. Help us. Where did this break? Oh, well that's really fixable. And we understand why that happened, but there's, you know, we can support with that. We can remove that barrier that maybe there's a perception that that just was the only way.

30:34 And so, It's connecting the dots. It's not from a place of blame or like whose fault is this, but it's always from a place of like, let's get better. Let's make the experience better constantly. And inviting feedback in a way that people know that they never will be reprimanded for sharing what needs to be shared. And I think my biggest fear is that people are going to hold back. I really stress the importance of one-on-one interviews because the minute you're in a group dynamic, it changes, right? And you might hold back because you're sitting next to so-and-so and you don't know if they're going to go to that level of candidness. And I want to hear it all.

31:15 I joke with people that I like going into the dark spaces and making people feel safe in the process, right? When those dark spaces need to be addressed. Because, again, they exist. If they are becoming a barrier, let's go down there and walk through it together and then we'll come out. But we can't just ignore them. That starts to feel toxic. I love that comment. Whether we hear the feedback or not, it exists. It's out there. And it's a living, breathing thing that's going to grow. It's going to grow whether we're engaged in it or not. Yeah. It's really good. And it's hard because of course, we live in a world where everything is shared.

31:56 Any bad experience is out there. And there probably is a rulebook for how to handle it. But I like addressing things. I like the opportunity to make it right and about it. And sometimes in the world of social media, that's not always effective, right? It's adding fuel to a fire. That's not really about the content that's posted. It's something deeper. It's something not public. So it's finding that balance. But I think internally, I don't want there to be conversations that can't be had. I want people to find safe places, whether it's HR, their HR business partner or their peers or a coach or me that they feel like they can go to and share. That's part of my goal.

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34:56 For this reason, we recommend actual insights to all of our clients. Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3,700 plus page database of Xactimate templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it, bam. database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple points and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world.

35:43 So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash FCG. One of the things that you had talked about was this post-pandemic perspective and how it really has changed our jobs, our roles, the people we're recruiting, all the things. And you really had a real humble approach on that. So I wanted to pick that back up. I read an article not that long ago and it was reframing the great resignation that we've all been hearing buzz about and everybody's quitting their jobs and things like that. And what was interesting about this article is they actually dove into... Instead of perpetuating the hype, they actually dove into what's really happening, at least from their data, their perspective.

36:28 And they reframed it as the great transition or the great awakening. And their feedback was that the workforce, their expectations are changing. They've either lived in such a world, whether it be affected by the pandemic or whatever it has been, where they have seen what it could be, and they're no longer satisfied with how it is. And I think one of the things that we struggle with, especially in blue-collar dominated environments, is that we really buy into this principle of you're getting hours, I pay you decent wage, like all these things, you're fortunate to be in this position. Honestly, at times that is true, right?

37:08 But we're still trying to hire the current workforce and the current workforce is in some state of great transition or awakening. What is your perspective on that? Because you're in the trenches, you're doing this stuff real life in this blue collar environment. What's your perspective on this transition or what the workforce has in terms of expectations? And how does that shape on a very basic level what operators, what business owners need to be doing in order to attract that workforce to their team? I love that. I love that article. I've also heard the great reflection. There's been all sorts of words to point to what you just described. And I think Part of it is we get in this hamster wheel or pre-pandemic, right?

37:50 Where it's like a snow globe where the snow is always going. And then the pandemic hit and all the snow just like sunk to the bottom. And you're forced to just look around and assess and reflect. And things start to emerge that you can't unsee. And we're forced to adapt in ways that typically wouldn't meet expectations, right? Of like what you do. Like you don't take a Zoom call with kids flying around the living room or you don't do these things. But we did. And it was okay. And we took meetings remotely that normally we'd have to travel in for and it was okay. Maybe it was actually better, right? And so you learn these things and personally and professionally about what matters and what is real and what doesn't matter. And that's a very individual thing, right?

38:31 That we've all had to go through. But I think that is spot on. And I don't think that is just going to be forgotten. And I don't want us to forget that. If our people are finding things that help them lead fulfilling lives where they can spend time on the things and with the people they care about and work and feel supported, why should we try to make that go away? How can we instead find a way that works for all of us and support our people so that they don't want to leave? Because we understand that Life is more than work and work should also be something that is supportive and enriching and helps you grow and all of these things. And so, again, I come back to this idea of supporting the whole person, looking at wellness, not just as a insurance, like health insurance, but it's also...

39:18 Mental wellness, it's all the aspects of feeling like your well-being is taken care of as a human, whether that's personal goals being acknowledged. There's so many things. And so we have this framework of talent magnets that we've identified in terms of what attracts great talent, what keeps great talent. And these are the things that we're building into this framework of we have to look at wellness in a much bigger way. We have to understand the importance of flexibility. to adapt to this awakening that we have had collectively as humans. Can you elaborate on, can you double click on that a little bit? Like how is our view of wellness changing? How's that changing perverse on site? Are we talking about Google like perks where there's yoga rooms in every facility and free fitness classes and what does that wellness picture, what is that starting to look like now?

40:07 So we've established sort of those pillars or magnets and we're in the process now of and listening towards talking to people to understand what they should look like at first on site. We are not Google, not in the sense that we can't have big aspirations. We actually want to be the best place to work of all industry, like just period, right? We want to be the best place to work. But we also recognize that for our people, wellness might look different than yoga rooms and whatever. And we need to listen and hear what those things are rather than decide what we think they should be or think that it has to be what Google says it is. We do know that wellness certainly, certainly goes beyond wellness.

40:48 having a competitive health insurance offerings and things like that. Mental health was actually the number one topic that we heard matter to our people in a survey we did last fall. And so we've put a lot of effort into supporting our people in more ways around mental health, not just for them, but for their families. Next week, actually, we're launching a mental health and resilience training app called Headversity that will be available to all And it's about daily practices and, again, training to help with resiliency. And that's been in collaboration with HR and our safety team. So that's not a silver bullet.

41:29 There's other things that need to happen too. But really starting to pay attention to what these things mean to our people and in our culture so that we define it in a way that fits us rather than what all the tech companies are doing, which there's some really cool things there. But again, is that meaningful to our people and the people we want to attract? There's something there I want to unpack with you a little bit. So mental health, does that mean that we should be more open to the fact that this type of conversation is becoming more not only acceptable, but is it becoming more expected? I'm just thinking of myself as an operational leader, how many times I understood there was a problem that was not the role or the job.

42:13 And I was tiptoeing around these things that may be causing the issue. But enough life and experience and things like that. And connectivity with our people. We knew something was off. But we're afraid to, and in a safe place, approach that conversation. What's your perspective on that? Is that a shift we need to be prepared to make? We have to lean into those uncomfortable moments where there is ambiguity. It's not clear what the right thing is to say or do, but the risk of staying silent is too great to not be vulnerable and imperfect. And that's a big thing we're talking about is just nobody is perfect, right? Let's just establish that and then establish that we always want to do better.

42:55 And so we're going to say the wrong thing, but that is better than not saying anything. So brave conversations is part of it. And I do think we should expect to have to step up in that space, but also recognizing that for different people, the needs will be different, right? Someone may not feel comfortable talking to their manager about their mental health. Very understandable. So what are other resources that we can make available? so that they can access support in a different way. Pedversity does have an immediate line to a crisis counselor that you can access straight from the app. It's also connected to our employee assistance program number. So it's, again, how do we make this easy click of a button, whether it's someone in the office or someone who you don't know, who can listen and support.

43:44 And then back to safety, we had a great conversation with our new head of global safety. And he's a guest on the podcast. And I was expecting to talk about safety. And he's like, can we just put that word aside and talk about care? And I was like, yeah, let's talk about care. He's like, this is what it comes down to. And, you know, we talked about leaders who love people, care about their people. And when there are safety incidents, how about we focus on the human aspect of that first before we get into everything else that needs to be considered. And so it was a great conversation. And I think it's, again, mental health fits into that. It's about care, whether it's a physical symptom or an emotional, there are lots of aspects of what well-being looks like and what caring for people looks like.

44:31 Yeah, I like that. That is an interesting way to reframe what can feel very mundane, taskmaster-oriented type things like safety. Well, we're just trying to reduce fleet insurance costs. We're trying to reduce downtime or loss of production. And really, there is this whole, no, we actually care about the person and we don't want you to lose a hand because we actually care about your well-being, your ability to earn for your family, all these things. That's really inspiring to hear a global head of safety with that perspective. Because I think we just historically, universally, I think in the trade sector, we're so pragmatic and we're so tactical. So it's really inspiring to hear a leader at that level.

45:13 Yeah, I think in general, I think I get excited about these kinds of conversations, Jenny, because... You guys are... And you're not the only ones. There's other teams that are very proactively engaging this culture conversation and changing the expectation. In fact, I think we see this in general in our industry. There is a shift. There's a movement. Yeah, it's mid-motion. And there's lots of groups that are recognizing it and changing the conversation. One of the things I just really like about the way that you guys are very bravely changing roles and titles and hiring people into certain positions to very proactively with money and resources to address this culture, employee health type focus.

45:56 And I think what I just want to convey with this is I don't believe that companies are going to have a choice for very long. There's just this reality that if you want to continue to be a successful business, leaders have to hire, pay for, develop, whatever the thing is, competency in these areas. And it can start so much smaller than the scale that you guys are currently at. But you got to look. And if you see these large entities, huge influencers like First Onsite, in terms of what we do and how we do it within our industry, and you guys are making these I just think people need to open their eyes and understand, look, if it ain't you, your neighbor's going to do it and then they're going to get the people you're desperate for.

46:41 This is non-optional. It's just how quickly and what scope do you need to take on today that varies. What's your feedback on that? Really, if you were to challenge operators, what would you say to that? Yeah. I would say it's never too early. Again, it's easier the earlier this happens. And I think you're right. It's going to happen. It is happening around us. Again, coming out of this great awakening, great reflection, whatever we want to call it, people have seen how it can be and they're not going to go back. And we want happy people, right? There's that, right? That's no small thing. We want people who are happy, who want to be here, who feel engaged.

47:23 We know that engagement is linked to performance. It's simple when you think about it. And so it's a necessary investment for so many reasons. Yeah. So this has been a wonderful strategy conversation, visionary conversation about culture. But I know that you guys are starting to see the fruit of this focus and these behaviors in your business. And we're coming out of one of the most tumultuous times today. I feel like in many ways here in the restoration industry, we've been so, so fortunate and lucky compared to some other industries that were decimated by the pandemic in a lot of ways. So we've been very, very fortunate, but there is a very, very anxious, stressed labor environment in our industry.

48:06 And yet, you guys have seen some real positive fruit from some of these initiatives and some of the effort and behaviors that you guys have pursued and first on site. I think you just said you recently had an employee engagement survey where you guys were able to take a pulse on, is this stuff working? And you got some pretty positive results. Could you talk about what you learned from the organization? Absolutely. So we are in our fourth year of doing the Gallup, they call it the Q12 engagement survey. Okay. And it's been helpful to have a benchmark and see year over year how that shifts. And the big question was, what is it going to look like this year? We've had a rebrand. lots of people who've had to sort of give up an old identity that we know is that's emotional, right?

48:51 Big change, acquisitions, a pandemic, so many things. It's been hard and we know that and we feel that. And where our engagements were sat last year, it was high enough that it starts to become really hard to keep seeing increases, right? It's It's harder to move the needle. And last week, I dropped my kids off at school and I had an email from my boss with just the preview of our overall score. And it went up again. Basically, I think it goes up to five. We hit four. And that's a big deal. And I had a moment... because it was sort of like, there's all these things that suggest that we should expect engagement to be lower.

49:32 And I think on average, when we look at what's happening in the world, engagement, people are not feeling as engaged. And so it was kind of an emotional moment of seeing that despite all of these really hard things happening. that we see and we know are going on and our people are struggling with it, there is this resilience and this intangible thing that is allowing them to still feel engaged and supported. And that just brought me so much joy because you hope, you hope that what you feel is felt in all of our 80 locations, right? But because of the pandemic, don't know for sure. And you can't nurture that in the same way that you normally would.

50:16 And a lot of it is this invisible force, right? It's just like the feeling you get when you go to work. And that data to me showed me that that's there. That is real. And that helps us power through all of the hard things that we've had to endure as a company and as a team and as individuals. So really just so excited because it just tells me that our people are okay. How many employees are in today? Yeah, today. How many today? The number changes quite regularly. We are right around 2400. And I think getting closer to 90 locations. Wow. And we had an 83% response rate.

50:59 for our engagement survey, which is pretty awesome. Yeah. And again, you know, I think a survey like this shows the importance of culture being something that we all own and shape. It's linked to every function, every leader, every individual. It's not one person or the survey would look very different. Right. Yeah. So yeah, I think it culture is such a fuzzy thing often because, That when you have data like that, it's exciting because to me, it just says, keep going, keep doing what we're doing. We're certainly not done. There's always work to be done. We know that. But keep going and we will keep doing what we're doing. Yeah, the value's there, clearly.

51:41 The needle's moving, clearly. Just again, a reminder for everybody, when you're talking about 2-3,000 plus employees that you're making changes with and getting buy-in in terms of culture, just think about that lift, guys. Think about what it took. to get movement at that scale and then reflect now on what you need to achieve in your own business to have some measurable movement in the right direction. And just use that to not only motivate you to actually take that first step, but take some of the buzz and the fear factor out of it. For most of us, we're sub 100 people. that we're trying to have some kind of positive impact and movement on. And it is very feasible.

52:22 If companies can do it, 2, 3, 4, 5, 28,000 people, you can do it inside your business. And the value to you is just... It's immeasurable. For a lot of these small business owners, you guys are wearing 15 hats and feel crushed under the responsibility. And most of us are fighting fires that could have been put out once and stayed out. But we haven't yet. And I think that part of what we need to be connecting the dots to is that this culture component, this ability to create consistency in the way that people feel about working with you and around you and being a part of the team that you're developing will shape all of that. It'll give you some of the bandwidth and some of the freedom. It will put out some of the fires that we fight on a day-to-day basis.

53:04 It creates the engagement. that you want from your team. And Jenny, you are a really shining example of this. And your guys' company as a whole is certainly setting a tone that is worth paying attention to. As we land this plane, this has been a really fun conversation. And Jenny, I think I'm really grateful for your voice. And like Brandon said, I think it's really awesome what First Onsite is invested in and is committed to. And just hearing the kinds of conversations that are happening. It sounds like not just at HQ, but down into the front lines of the company. It's really inspiring. And the inspiration, I agree with Brandon. It's like, hey, if a huge company can manage this... it feels more accessible to the operator that's got 10, 15, 20 employees.

53:49 It's like, okay, we can engage in those conversations. I can have those one-on-ones with people and be curious and ask them questions about what it's like to work here. This is not go hire McKinsey and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring people in to show you how to do this. You really created some roadmap for folks of... engage in these kinds of conversations, take this posture with your people, have these one-on-one conversations and then act on them. Listen to what they're saying and take action. People, I think coming out of this, there's going to be a lot of folks that want to hear your voice more often on these subjects. And you talked about this podcast that you recently launched. Can you give us the name to that? Tell us, I imagine it's on all the major platforms, but tell us more about that.

54:30 Yeah. So it's called First Insight. And where that came from, insight is often what causes us to think differently about norms and conventions, something that causes us to rethink something, bring some fresh thinking and disrupt things that maybe need to be disrupted. And that's really the goal of this podcast. It's produced for our team members, but it's available to anybody. It's just, we're very clear that we're doing this as part of having these important conversations. So that's really what it's there for. And it's a mix of guests from within the company and guests from outside of the company. And it's really just about people bringing unique perspectives to topics in culture and leadership.

55:13 So as I mentioned, we had somewhat former Green Beret. Now it's a rowing coach for Boston University and chief people officer. I'm going to be talking to an equine therapist on vulnerability in a couple of weeks. We talked to one of our GMs about leading as a woman in an industry like restoration. So Lots of topics that need attention and dialogue. And my hope is just to see those things so that teams can talk about them. And we're inviting these important conversations into the workday. And I think another goal is really to model and show that this is a space where we can be real. We have plenty of channels and spaces where we show up polished and our best.

55:56 And of course, we want to. This is a space where we can relax a little bit and show up as people first. You'll see us with our page of notes. You'll see Oscar, my dog, walking around. It's a comfortable and safe space to keep it real. I've been pretty opinionated on the importance of that because while we're maybe not used to showing the more vulnerable side, I think that is what goes back to connection, right? That's what makes us feel connected. It's what helps us relate to one another when we can't be together, when we can't be in person. And it's ultimately what helps us to feel safe to talk about some of these topics that can feel scary or controversial. So that's what it's all about.

56:37 Yeah, we're launching our third episode next week. And it can be found on YouTube and Spotify and Apple Podcasts and all the places. So yeah, that's a great place to tune in. And I'm also always happy to talk about. topics like culture. I think I want to see us all do these things. I think it's so important that we all focus on this. And I love sharing and learning from one another. So I'm here to chat. Love it. Right on. So as we bring this to a close, Jenny, if there's one thing that you felt like we didn't ask or we didn't touch on that you want to leave with the listeners, just some tidbit that makes this more accessible, more realistic for people to start.

57:18 Yeah. You know, something that's been on my mind since I attended a conference last month on culture, they talked about this idea of we always talk about culture fit when we hire, but we really need to be shifting to looking for culture contributors. Not just someone who will fit in, but someone who will help us build and shape. And it's such a specific takeaway. But that one really stuck with me because, again, I think we're past just meeting people who fit, right? We are moving into new spaces where we need people who don't fit to help us show what's around the corner, see what's around the corner. And so I really like that idea of almost an added criteria of how is this person or asking, how are you going to contribute to our culture?

58:03 What will you bring that is new and different versus just do you fit? Yeah. Maybe that's my final thought starter. Love it. That's right on point. That's awesome. Well, thanks again, Jenny. Awesome show. We will definitely circle back around at some point to get more perspective for you or from you. And then for those, please jump in, follow the podcast. My gut says there's going to be plenty of opportunity for us to get insight on how we can use this ultimately in our own businesses as we see you guys forging some new paths in front of many of us. So thanks again, Jenny. Appreciate you. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Great to talk to you guys. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots.

58:46 And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, only know to subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.