Ep 128 - "Getting Engaged With RIA"

0:00 What's up, my dude? Oh, bro. It is sunny. Like, we're making this transition into summer and it feels like it's coming early this year. It was 78 degrees outside yesterday, man. I honestly feel my soul coming back online. Oh. I feel like that bad boy went into hibernation this winter. I really have to add to my vision board, my bucket list, whatever, a escape place in Palm Springs or Phoenix because this is necessary more often. Yeah, I'm starting to get the snowbird vibe. I get it. I feel the draw and I'm really close to going to the call. Oh, dude. So good. All right, my dude. So interesting episode this time. It's a little bit different. Yeah. And I know that... And I think maybe we even mention it early in the show.

0:42 Sometimes I lose track, but... You and I wanted to be very clear about something. And that is like, we don't make it a practice to put things on the show that we don't believe there's value on the back end of listening to that show. Obviously, the amount of value variants... Like promotional stuff. Exactly. We just... We're not doing a show about a product. Now, it's likely that we have businesses on our show because of who they are, what they do, how they serve. We like them. Yes. They're made, you know, but... It's not our intent. Okay. RIA. At the end of the day, this episode is all about RIA. And we're meeting specifically with Ben Looper and Katie Smith, both the outgoing and the incoming president of RIA.

1:27 And here's what it turns into. Brass tax. Yeah. We believe in RIA. Yeah, we do. We believe that what they're doing is gaining speed and momentum. Yeah. And we want to help extend the reach of their message. We want to help promote. We want more people to join it. We totally believe in where it's going. 100%. We want more voices singing in unison to help us as restorers get what we need from the industry so that we can better take care of our clients. And we can have the operating freedom to take care of our clients the way that we know is important and critical to do so. And right now, you and I have said this many times, we believe that RIA is the best organization suited to take that position to unify our voice and get action to be taken.

2:09 And our goal with this episode with these two is to highlight that. Our job was to job our goal was to highlight some of the real things that are happening within RIA that can have a real impact on us as business owners. And we're literally soliciting. We are physically soliciting right now for people to become engaged members with RIA because the more voices in unison, the more powerful our industry is. The more powerful it is. And all of us get to enjoy that rising tide effect when things become more professional and more balanced in terms of who's making decisions and how they're affecting us. So... That's what we did. Yeah. And I think that once you listen to the show, I think you're going to pull a lot out of it.

2:52 And again, I think at minimum, it'll give you an opportunity to consider this for you and your team. And I think another thing I would highlight too is Ben and Katie are owners. Yeah, that's right. They're owners of restoration companies. They've been in the trench, are in the trench running restoration operations in our industry. I think it's really neat. We have super relatable leaders who are at the helm that are giving their time so that the rest of us can continue focusing on our business. Volunteering and doing this kind of stuff. It's very time consuming. It's very distracting. It's like, and so I have a lot of admiration. I've served on boards and it, it can feel like a really onerous distraction to your normal business.

3:35 That's the sacrifice that these two are willing to make. And so I think that deserves some respect. And we wanted to give them a platform to speak to the industry specifically. And we hope that you guys will take time to listen and then take action too. If you're not a member of RIA, one of the things that we cover in here is just some of the basic benefits that easily can cover the cost of sites. And the networking events like this, the last two shows that we've been to, they were very impressive events. Very high level, lots of interconnection and networking and deal making between regional restorers to do work and collaborate on jobs. I mean, it's just, there's really good things happening here. So anyway, let's get in and check out the show. All right.

4:16 Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so. And ultimately share, right? The coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend, share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members.

4:59 Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review? Those five-star reviews help Right on. And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's Business Opportunity Audit. It's free. We provide it at no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's a 110-point assessment for your business. And we've now decided to give access to the general public for it. So go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp.com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now.

5:41 And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. So go check it out, floodlightgrp.com forward slash audit and take the BOA. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business. Well, you two, thanks a lot for joining us. Two people that probably have a few things on their to-do list in terms of time demand. So we really appreciate you guys pausing for a hot minute and giving your focus to us in the audience. So thank you, Katie and Ben, for joining us. We appreciate you showing up. Thank you. Great to be here. Well, to get us started, why don't we... I'm sure there's at least one listener maybe that's paying attention to the show that may not understand who the RIA is and what it is and specifically who you two are.

6:24 So if you don't mind, let's just start with a quick bio on who you are, what your engagement with RIA is, and then I think it'll set the stage for the rest of our conversation. Katie, you want to get us started? Sure, I will. I'm Katie Smith. I am the second generation owner of PHC Restoration. We're located in a little town called Lillington, North Carolina. I've been involved with the Restoration Industry Association for more than 10 years, and I just finished a two-year term as president, so I am the immediate past president of the RIA. Nice. Ben. All right. I have been in the restoration industry for close to 30 years and have been part of the RIA for close to 20 years, but not involved in the RIA until the past seven, eight years.

7:11 And I am the current president of the organization, following in some big footsteps there, Miss Katie's and Mr. Mark Springer's before her. So excited about where we're heading with the RIA and excited about being here with you guys. I didn't say I'm located in just north of Atlanta, Georgia. I'm the CEO of Southeast Restoration Group and services Georgia and Tennessee markets. We got these accents in here. Oh, it's so great. I just love that. I don't hear an accent. Do you, Ben? Oh, yeah. I just love that syrupy Southern comfort. Only from them. Yeah. You have it too, because you said syrup instead of syrup. Oh, okay. All right. All right.

7:52 Fair enough. That's funny. We have been traveling a lot in that region a fair bit. But, you know, Ben, I think this is a great place to start 30 years in the industry. And something compelled you to join in with the RIA and join on to what was happening and support it and join as a company eight years ago. You've seen a lot in the industry. What compelled you to jump into the RIA eight years ago? I had some really close friends that were in the leadership of the RIA and had asked me to get more involved, knowing that I had been in the business at the time, you know, 20 years and had some influence in the region here in the southeast. And asked me if I would be willing to commit some time to get back involved in the industry and give back to the industry.

8:38 And I just really felt like it was amazing. the right time to do that. And I looked at the board and the committees that was forming, and it was a tough time for the association at the time. It was a really tough time. But I looked at the up and coming leadership and the industry and the association had changed and was moving what I felt like was in a positive direction. And so I felt like it was the right time for me to give back to the industry that had been so good to me. You know, it's so interesting because you alluded to this, Ben, of just this pointing towards this inbound leadership. Of course, this was a few years back, right? But Katie, obviously, you were a massive catalyst of that change, right? That's been, I think, inspiring and driving more attention to what is it that RIA is doing?

9:23 Where are the values for us as restorers? you played a massive role in that. What was Ben seeing? What do you think it was, this combination of you guys and Mark Springer and some of the inbound leaders? What was he seeing that said, okay, now it's time to come participate? Yeah, so when it comes to being a catalyst, we were a team of people working as a catalyst. So he saw a lot of people working together, the solid board. It hasn't looked, now we have people who want to be on our board, who want to be president of the association. And that wasn't always the case. And we had reached a point where we were not providing value. Let's see. 2019, I think, is where we kind of hit rock bottom there of just not being able to give a lot of value to the members, not providing service.

10:05 We have people leaving the association and just retention rates were at an all time low. And Mark and I had just had enough. And I was at the point where I was secretary and I decided I said, I can't go forward in this association anymore. My business needs me and I can't be here always. helping turn things around and we had staff turnover. We just had management issues. And so that was, you know, Mark and I decided that we would leave our previous management association company. And that's when we interviewed association headquarters, who manages us now. That's where Christy Cohen, our CEO, is from. And so we just knew that we had to do better. And once we made that change and You know, we reset on our strategic plan.

10:46 We got really clear on our mission, our vision, what we were there to do. And then obviously AGA, the Advocacy and Government Affairs Committee, that is huge. Like the launch of AGA, that was like the first thing that we had done in years that was really, wow, okay, people know what's going on in my business. There's an association here that's really here to help me, that understands me, that's working on my behalf. And so all of these things coupled together is really what was the catalyst of us being where we are now. People saying, yes, that is exactly what my business needs. Somebody who listens to the issues going on in my business, who is organized enough to do something about it, that communicates out to me, that helps me.

11:26 grow my business or helps me deal with the issues in my business. And so now that we're providing that value, people want to be a part of RIA again. It's like it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy a bit, right? That whole flywheel, I guess, concept. And it does seem like there's this immense momentum behind RIA. I just want to get this out early. Chris and I, we try to be super intentional about guests and the time that we spend on the show to make sure that we're not just getting sucked up into a marketing PR situation. piece. And so I just want to set that stage early with the show today is Chris and I feel very strongly that RIA is a growing value add for us as restorers.

12:10 And I think that you guys are only getting started with some really monumental ways that you can change the shape of the industry and what we then get to participate in as restorers as an industry as a whole. And so I'm just setting that tone right now for listeners like, This is not a PR gig. This ain't a preferred partner gig. This is us wanting to highlight the two of some of the most important key leaders in RIA so that we as participants and potential members have a much better picture of what our membership looks like as part of RIA as it stands today and where it's headed in the future. So I just want to throw that out there as we get going. Yeah, I think we've been truly inspired about the direction of the industry.

12:51 And I talked about this in a previous interview. I think it's been really powerful to watch a lot of fragmentation or what has been fragmentation in the industry start to come together and coalesce around the movement within RIA. Like I think of my friend, our friend, Andy McCabe. There was a point where a lot of pockets of restorers felt like they had to advocate for themselves. And one by one, we've been seeing these leaders and these figures within the industry come alongside and get behind what the RA is doing. And I think the AGA and Ed Cross and those efforts were a key driver.

13:32 behind bringing people together. She's like, oh my gosh, there's real advocacy and that someone else has our back. Like this industry association is really stepping into the fray on our behalf. It's very powerful. The moment with Ed Cross during the conference, and I'm totally, I'm blanking here, the core logic, right? Yeah. Well, we had Aaron Brunko from Barrett's on stage during Town Hall. And then we had the TPA sessions as well. Yeah, we weren't there many years ago. And to have the respect and trust and partnership of some of these organizations that we have to cooperate with to serve our clients, that's a huge win for us. And AGA, years ago, when it first started, we were passing the plate.

14:15 at our conventions trying to raise funds for AGA just to do the basics there. And our loyal longstanding members, they reached down into their pockets and they funded AGA in the beginning. But when you're talking about now the momentum, we are still 50% independent, restorer membership base. But our enterprise members have really stepped up in a huge way. And those enterprise memberships, those are what's really fun. funding AGA's growth and momentum. We're able to do things now that we just weren't able to do before without all of the major brands in our industry on board with RIA. So where we were and where we are now, we could never have done that without all of our big players. But we are at our core, half memberships of independent restorers.

14:58 So that is still the heart and soul of RIA. I think that's actually really important. I think that's one of the opportunities is that we need to, whether we're a large franchise platform, if we're one of these PE-backed platform roll-ups, or just us as individual operators, that's the point. That's the opportunity. If we can have a mixture of all those voices speaking and raising their hand when things, when decisions are being made, when... legislation, when legal issues are being presented that have a profound or a direct impact on our businesses, that's the importance of this kind of mix of voices is that it's a real representation of the industry. And we can't...

15:39 I think it becomes harder for that voice to get ignored when so many different versions of restorers, if you will, for lack of better describe it, are present and speaking in a unified way. Yes. It's kind of like, well, this is the industry voice, period. Like we are restoring it. It doesn't matter what our colors are, whatever. And I think that's part of the value. I don't know that this is ground shattering information, but I think it's important to grab some context. So Katie, do you mind just kind of talking through... the trajectory of membership, let's say over the last three years, because obviously this year was crazy already. But just talk about the last three years. And more importantly, though, can you connect the dots for us?

16:20 Why it matters? Why other than getting some more money in the RIA bank account, what is this membership shift mean for us as if we're on the fence or if we're already part of RIA? Yeah, so obviously if we want to be the trade association of the industry, which we are, we're the oldest, we're the largest, but we still want to represent everyone, have every voice represented in membership. And when I look at 2019, we were at 864 members, and now we're pressing 1700 in 2024. That's been a massive shift, right? And some of that does represent our enterprise members. But it's... It really does represent people having a need to have community, to have advocacy.

17:04 And I think there's a lot of people finally understanding, like, wait a minute, if I invest a minimal amount of my revenue into membership in this organization, that means I find community with people who understand what I do every day. That was why I fell in love with RIA. It put me in conversation with people that I could reach out to throughout the year to say, hey, right? is this happening in your business? Because it's happening in mine and I'm just not sure, how are you handling this? So it gives you that network of people to belong to, but then also we give you the opportunity to tell us what's happening in your business. And so when we do our AGA issue survey, If we're polling, you know, 800 people versus 1,700 people, we have a better finger on the pulse of the industry so that whenever we get these issue surveys back and we give that to AGA and we say, all right, here's our marching orders.

17:55 Here's what the industry is telling us is happening. Now, Grant... Whenever we do these AGA surveys, it's open to the whole industry at large, not just RIA members. And that's important to remember is that we're working for the whole industry. And a lot of people who aren't members see that. Some of them are watching and waiting to see what's happening. And then they say, all right, maybe I'll join now, but we're doing this anyway for the greater good of the industry. But people understand like, wait, this small amount of money that I'm spending, it means that more money goes into advocacy and advocacy helps me in my business, helps me deal with the problems that me alone, I'm too small to really do anything with. So that's really what's happening is people are having an understanding of if I give you these membership dollars, you're going to be a good steward of those, find out where I need help and provide help for me.

18:41 So at its core, it's a very basic transaction. I think we were just looking at IBIS. I don't know if that's the right way you say it. Some reports, right? Some data that's been gathered around our industry. And the number is kind of hovering around 60, 61,000 restorers. Now, what we don't know with that is like, you know, a Belfort's got... It's all one Belfort, but they've got so many X locations, ATIs, things like that. So we don't know exactly what that number means. But let's just for all intents and purposes, 60,000, we currently have 1,800 members. clearly it would be nice to have a larger market penetration or more voices in the ranks for something like that.

19:24 Ben, as you're getting ready to take the organization over or take that presidency, what do you see? What is the message? What do we need to be thinking about communicating processing so that we can start... getting more of those 60,000 voices behind the organization. What do you feel like in the next couple years has to be said in order for us to get gains in that membership? Yeah, I think we started that message at the convention and with a standing room only sold out crowd. We had some sold out breakout sessions and some were even paid for there. Yeah. Expo, we had to expand the Expo.

20:06 We were supposed to even do this podcast there, and we were not able to because of all the craziness that was going on there at the convention. So I think we started that message there, and it's going back to what Katie mentioned. It's the vision and the unity, and you guys were talking about it a second ago. this industry had gotten to a place where it was fragmented. You know, different people were having to speak about different things. And we were fortunate to have a trade association that came together, recognized, put the AGA in place and got the right person to lead that. And with Katie and then with Ed Cross being our advocate, we, but showing that we can be one voice and that we're stronger as one voice.

20:49 And I think you've seen the membership grow. I think all the people that were a lot of people that were sitting on the sidelines kind of looking to see if this was really true. Is this really happening? You know, that we're at the convention or have been hearing about it since the convention, our number of membership numbers continue to grow, you know, are seeing that, As a unified voice, we can have conversations with carriers and with TPAs, with some of the large technology companies that can make a difference. And what we're finding is when you have the right voices, and Katie mentioned, we got to have all segments of our industry represented from, you know, the guy that's just starting his restoration company, you know, out of the back of his truck or in a small office and, you know, just getting going up to our enterprise members who have conversations.

21:36 multi-location, you know, multi-billion dollar operations. And we have to have that relationship capital that they bring to the table and that they build. And we recognize that and appreciate that being the case. And so with that, we can get ourselves at tables and have conversations with leaders in our industry that can make a difference. One thing I'll throw out there is, you know, we've already talked about it with various and core logic, but pricing, if pricing is a big issue, if we're not able to get to the table and have conversations with Aaron Bronco and his team Greg Pine and their team, if we're not able to get them to listen and get them to the table, you know, we're not going to be able to move the needle.

22:18 And so we're not only able to get to the table and have those conversations, but they understand, you know, what a powerful group that we have with the RIA and the membership, and they want to help the industry by listening to the things that we're really struggling with on a day-to-day basis to be able to move the What we've got to continue to communicate is how important, because the numbers that you just shared, and we do need to clarify and clear that up from, is that one member or how many locations are we representing and what that is. But we need to make sure we continue to get the word out. And those that are on the fence, we need to get them over on our side of the fence, because it's really important.

23:00 not consequential, how much it costs compared to what we're able to provide. If they will utilize the resources that we provide through the RIA, it's very, very minimal. And so continue to grow. We've got the largest number of prospects in our enterprise membership pool, affiliate memberships that we're going to be able to talk about. But All the things, everybody's wanting to, you know, seeing what's happening with the momentum and everybody wants to be part of that and get in the boat. And that's only going to help us more. So, you know, we talked about the membership has already over doubled and we're anticipating and planning on it doubling again in the next two years. So we want to double that, the number where we're at.

23:43 I mean, we really think we could be at 4,000 or 5,000 members, you know, in the next couple of years with the momentum that we're experiencing right now. And one of the things Ben said is that, you know, he's thinking that there are some people who are on the fence. There are restorers who aren't even in the yard yet. Because it is so difficult to be a restorer in this day and age that I think business owners, especially at a certain size, they're just so buried in the day to day of their business. And it's like a catch 22, because that's where you are at the stage where you really need the help of the AGA and the RIA. And you need these resources and you need that community and that connection. it's hard to get away from your business sometimes. And I think that we have got a lot of work to do to reach every restorer.

24:24 There are thousands of people who don't know who we are. And I really think it's because they are so bogged down in the day-to-day of running a restoration business, which is harder than it's ever been before. You know, it's kind of interesting. I know Chris wants to get into that more. So I don't want to get in the way. But there's two things I just want to convey because it just came to mind as you guys are talking. One is what you just said. And that is, it is hard to get audience, right? Like the Restorers are busy. They're in the trenches. And to be brutally honest, this is not a plug for the show. I am biased, but it's not a plug is it's why you guys are on today. Because we do often, we're able to fill that spot where someone throws us on in the cab of their truck or their car when they're out doing the grind, right?

25:10 And so again, that's points towards why are we having the show today is because we want you as restorers. If you don't know and you haven't heard and maybe we've got your ear because you're in route to a job right now, this is why we're having this because you need to know what RIA is. And it is hard for us to get exposed to it in here. Yeah. And I think part of that isolation, and we've talked about this, it's come up already a few times, is data and information. I think as restorers, if you're that brand new guy that's operating out of his home garage and got a single truck and is trying to build a business out of that, it's really difficult to know. Like this cost of doing business survey in partnership with KnowHow and CNR and the industry is...

25:52 Like that kind of data, I mean, data is something we need more and more of within our industry. Consolidated data across our entire industry is something that's really important to helping us fine tune our businesses, become more successful, more profitable so that the industry can continue to grow and strengthen to your average restorer I think finding that sort of benchmark information of what should I be doing? How should my business look? How do I be successful in this changing environment? I see, I'm sure many of you are, both of you are on the various forums online. I follow a lot of the private Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups and stuff like that. And every single day... these smaller, newer restorers are asking questions like, hey, what kind of compensation are you paying your PMs right now?

26:35 What's normal? What's benchmark data? And as an industry, we just right now, we don't have enough of that. compared to other industry verticals, right? And so I think that's obviously one of the things that is really mission critical for us is understanding in greater detail what's required to run a restoration company, right? In terms of our lobbying efforts, I imagine that's a really important data that we need to continue to gather as an industry. What's... You guys have any thoughts on that and the value of this survey? Yeah. Yeah. rolled out. And even just to start before that, there is an amazing resource for RIA members. It's called our Accounting and Financial Management Guidelines.

27:16 So many people as they're growing, I hear this one all the time. Where do you put your PMs? You know, like, are they overhead? Are they cost of goods? Like everybody's always wondering about things like that. We have a great document for people who are growing their business quickly and trying to get their accounting in order in their chart of accounts. Most people don't know that this even exists. It's an Yeah, I mean, that's worth the discounted rate of membership for the first year, right? But if you actually, the financial information that is available to us is not accessible to everyone. There's usually a pay-to-play type, you know, system to receive it. But you're also receiving a very small segment of the industry if you are in a group where you are fortunate enough to be able to receive those benchmarks.

28:01 So what we're trying to do is make this accessible to everyone at any scale. When you're looking at percent of revenue, it's really easy to be able to benchmark where you are and how you're performing. But if there's one thing that if I do get on social media and see a bunch of restores trying to figure something out, overhead and profit is the biggest one that I hear complaints about nonstop. So everybody's told us, O&P, O&P, 10 and 10. It's not realistic, it's not reasonable. We know that, but what we have to do is have some information to back that up. So when we sit down and do our three-year plan and our strategy, and we're talking about, all right, how do we even start to tackle this huge topic of overhead and profit, We have to know where we are and we have to start somewhere, right? And so this cost of doing business survey is one of the first things that we can do to be able to start gathering information.

28:46 So then we take that, then we start talking about, all right, where do we go from here? But we have to know where we're starting before we even talk about where we go. So completing this survey is essential for everyone, not just RIA members, every restorer. I will tell you, I did it in 28 minutes. I am the owner of my company. I'm not the bookkeeper. I have a team of 30 people. So that's the size of my company. The reporting that we have in-house enabled me to do everything on my own without asking for help. 28 minutes of my day is going to give me tremendous payoff in the end whenever we get the final report back. So it's one of those where people are saying, well, what value does RIA give me? Yeah. it's a much larger payout, but you've got to put something in first.

29:29 You can't just sit and wait for RAA to give you everything. You've got to give some too. So let's say you give an hour of your time to give us information that helps us chart the course for AGA and finally start to make some waves with this OMP project. But we gotta start somewhere in the cost of doing business survey. That's where it is. So that's where we gotta start right now. Liftify.com forward slash bloodlight. You've heard Brandon and I talk a bunch of times about the importance of Google reviews. Maybe you even heard our episode with Zach Garrett, the CEO and founder. Recency, consistency, two of the most important things when it comes to maximizing the benefit from your Google reviews. Why not use an outside partner?

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30:53 We can make it more consistent. We can also have backup for when our teams need that help, right? Somebody goes on vacation. Somebody's out sick. We get a storm surge, we get cat event. All sorts of things can have an impact on how we receive that client. But the most important thing is they need to know that they've chosen the right team. And so AnswerForce.com can support you, be a bolt-on partner to help you consistently produce an awesome onboarding experience with that first call with your client. So AnswerForce.com forward slash answerforce. blood light. That's great. CNR Magazine, we're friends with all the folks at CNR. Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry.

31:35 Right? You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. Right? She's got that. Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Right? CNR is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. It is the water cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine.com. Follow them on LinkedIn. Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us. If you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine.com. You guys, many of you have already heard about actionable insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry.

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33:05 Hey, Ben, I'm wondering if you've got some perspective on something. So, and Katie, you kind of actually set the stage for this. So you guys had mentioned two things. Katie, you referred to the busyness, right? Like it's just hard to even A, know or I exist, let alone, you know, contribute in a meaningful way when you're underwater, just kind of live in life. One of the things that I've recognized about the leadership is that you have leaders that most of them are operators. They have businesses, restoration companies. But one of the things that I think is really interesting is the strategic or forward or proactive kind of posture that the leaders in their own businesses... Because if you look at the DNA of a lot of the organizations that are represented by the board members, they're not...

33:52 poor RAN companies. They're getting some gains, some successes, some momentum. I would say a lot of those organizations tend to be a little bit more professionalized. We've just spent some time iterating systems and processes. Anyways, here's where I'm going. So those are the leaders that are present. So sometimes as maybe a new member, you look at an RIA board member or a key leader, you look at their company and it's maybe at XYZ revenue, they've got these employees in place, these things, and we're all trying to survive. My point is, is that's the value of being in RIA is that you've got this building momentum or cadence of leaders that are being strategic, that are taking the time to think about our future.

34:33 And then therefore, even in your busyness, that's the opportunity is let's lean on them who have built things to a state where they can be thinking about this. And let's take advantage of the opportunity. All right. There's a question in here, Ben. Sorry. All right. So from your perspective, you run, obviously, a very good-sized organization. You have a very successful business. A lot of people who have been or heard your name or been around you at all, they also know that people often point to your organization from a cultural perspective in terms of its health. Okay. All that to be said, Ben, what do you see from your perspective in that zone? What is it that us as restorers, we're not thinking about?

35:16 And because we're not thinking about it, we don't have the appropriate context of why RIA membership or why participating in this is so important. Does that make sense? It does. Great, great question. And I was going to jump in there and your question ties right into it. But going back to what Katie said earlier is, you know, we got some people that are not even in the yard yet. And it's OK because I've been there. Katie's been right there. Every one of us have been right there where we're working out of. you know, the garage or the bed of your truck. Or, you know, I was in a, when my wife and I first got married, I was in the guest bedroom of a single wide trailer working off of a door slab and a couple of old file cabinets.

35:58 So, I mean, we've been there. And the reality is, I told you, I mean, I've been in the industry, you know, 30 years, but I've only been involved deeply in the RIA for the last seven or eight. And, you know, there is a time in your progression and you may not have the time, but what I didn't realize and what I wish somebody would have told me back then, and I wish the association would have been in a place where it is today, because the value of what the discounted membership, you know, for the new first time members are to the association, literally, and if you took a half a day and just went to the RIA, if you were a member and took a half a day and went to the website, you would gain more value than you would pay for the membership just from what you could pull off out of position papers, out of the accounting information that Katie mentioned earlier, the things that we're doing with the AGA and things that you're not even aware of that we're doing from a trade association standpoint, that we're fighting on your behalf.

37:00 And you need somebody out there speaking and fighting on your behalf because that's what's going to help you be more profitable. You know, this O&P thing Katie talks about and the discussions we're having with the different various and core on the pricing models and the willingness there, you know, being able to change, you know, some of the models there. is only making our industry better. We're able to share information with them. And not everybody has that freedom or has that ability to do that as they're growing their business. So you need people speaking on your behalf because there's going to be a time that you're going to be growing your business to a place where you can give back and we're going to need you.

37:41 We're going to need you serving in volunteer roles as soon as you can. You know, I would recommend, you know, getting started and getting involved in some of our committees and task force. You know, not giving up a ton of time, but then, you know, eventually... We're going to need future leaders in this trade association that we're going to have to come alongside. So allow us, come along as a new member, allow us to help you grow your business and then get involved, pay attention, volunteer, and then be ready when you're called on, just like Katie was, just like I was, to be in a leadership role, to be able to give back to an industry that's well worth it and, you know, that's been so good to us.

38:23 Yeah. I think as we move forward, that's got to be part of the messages. We're not asking everybody to, you know, become members and just, you know, go all in because we understand that that's not feasible for everybody out there right now. But we do want you to be as involved as you can. And then as your business grows and you have the opportunity, but it's the little things like the cost of doing business survey that, you know, maybe it's a half an hour here. a half an hour there, you can, you know, be listening to the podcast as you're going down the road and, you know, picking up tips and hints. But the greatest thing is when we have an annual convention or we have these networking opportunities throughout the year, those networking opportunities are invaluable.

39:06 I mean, just to be with fellow restorers and, you know, that's the way I've built our business is, you know, learning from those who have come before me and then focusing internally on, you know, our team members' success and growth by other things that others are doing. We refer to it as R&D in our organization, rip off and duplicate. So we... There are no great ideas that were mine alone. They came from somewhere. And I'm just smart enough to listen and implement them and give credit where credit's due. I feel like that R&D thing is so much more in alignment with what our version of R&D is. Wow, that's great. I'm going to have to tell Casey that one.

39:46 Awesome, yeah. That's cool. Okay. So I've got... I'm kind of totally bogarting the whole conversation. So another question, another thought here. So Chris pointed towards Andy McCabe and the Rebels as an example. We've recently have spent more time with Andy and really respect him and have a better picture, I would say, without trying to rally up everything. We have a much better picture of the the history of Air and the Rebels and just kind of what the intentionality was. Anyways, all that to be said, they have a 96, 9,700 member Facebook group. And so when I think about that statistically, right? In our industry of the different groups or tribes, if you will, with a community base, that's a really powerful number.

40:33 I don't think we've seen numbers like that anywhere else. And my point is, is that something resonated there. There was something in that mix that was being voiced, that was being talked about in a way that it really gathered momentum and started collecting a lot of different personalities, perspectives, and business owners into a single forum. What do you... And again, this is kind of an on-the-spot question. What do you guys feel like that was? From your perspective now, maybe from a more mature seat in terms of... That's maybe not the right word. Anyways, Andy, leaning a little bit harder into these different opportunities. What was the message? What was the... I got it.

41:13 People are looking for community. We're all humans. We're all looking for connection with other people who understand us, who get us. And that platform, like many other platforms like it, provide a place for us to connect with other restorers. We're all providing connection. But, and look, just in my company alone, I can tell you probably three to eight of us are members of that group. And so it represents probably every board member's company, like most of our RIA members. We're involved in that too, right? But you got to take it into action. You've got to take that what people are doing are expressing their pain points.

41:54 There's a lot of pain involved in this industry and people are looking to go invent that pain, but they're looking for help. That's what they're looking for. And so what RIA does to connect that dot is we take the feedback, we take the pain points, and then we break it down to actionable steps to advocate on behalf of the restore with the source of the pain point. So, like with this Carrier Relations Task Force that we've just launched, we know that a lot of times we can talk to TPAs. We can talk about third-party reviewers and consultants and things like that. A lot of the times they'll say, well, go talk to the carrier. We're just doing what the carriers ask us to do. Yeah. We know that in many cases, the carrier is the source of some of the frustration.

42:38 And really, I think just communication and collaboration or lack of that is the source. I'm not necessarily saying the carriers are the cause. It's really that we're serving a mutual client, but on a higher level, the restorers and the carriers are not really working together. There's a lot of misunderstandings there. So there's always a need for an online community like that because every person in our business is not always going to have the luxury of being able to go to an in-person event and network with other technicians and things like that. So it gives them an instant platform. But what we have to do is take the pain points, create a strategy, and do something about it. And that's the need that RIA listens to and we do something about it.

43:18 I think, Katie, honestly, that was probably the most powerful pitch for RIA I think we've heard. Here's why. Here's what stuck out for me is that was the universal mission that allows... I'm going to say allows. And hopefully we're not tiptoeing into some uncomfortable space. It allows a group with that much momentum, that many members like the Rebels to look at RIA and say, that's why this is a we opportunity and a team sport is... We're collectively talking out loud. We've got a foundation from a community platform that's very powerful. And now we have a partner that is buttoned up enough to sit at the table directly across from, like you said, the source of what potentially is a lot of pain points for us, restorers.

44:07 And now we go from data input community into action that then serves a purpose that produces a different result for us. That is... Yeah. This, that's powerful. Let me add to that as well. We as restorers can also be the source of our own frustrations, right? Okay, so documentation is one of those things. We could teach a documentation one-on-one course. And, you know, we also know that as part of our educational offerings, educate is the first word of our mission of educate, advocate, elevate. Okay. So we know that there is a severe need for better education in our industry to be a better business owner, to run a better business, right? And that's a void that RIA is going to be filling in the future. But we also know that people need to know where you might have gone wrong when you got to that point in the claim where you can't get paid or where you've been 60 to 90 days and you're at no resolution yet.

44:57 there's usually somewhere where we went wrong as operators that has gotten us to that point. And I'll be the first one to admit that there are times where our documentation comes back and we dropped the ball, right? We didn't do something right. And so I think if RIA can provide that type of education that's lacking in our industry, that's not necessarily like standard type stuff that IICRC provides, but it's really one of those, like if you want to run a profitable restoration business, here are the things that you've got to have. And so I just want to be fully transparent and say that we can't blame all of our problems on carriers because we are the source of some of our own problems.

45:38 That's so true. That's fair. That's very fair. Well, hey, as we work to land the plane, you know, I wanted to just... We've got two really tremendous restorers and operators on the show today. And I think, again, kind of referencing back to what Brandon said, I think sometimes people look at the RIA board and they feel like there's so much distance between their business and what they do on a daily basis and the people that are running, quote, RIA, that... And yet you guys are in the trench. I mean, you guys both have organizations that you lead that are doing the stuff. And you guys have active businesses that you're running. As you look out, putting back your owner hats on, as you look out over the current landscape, obviously, we've been in a season as an industry that...

46:24 of reduced claim volume. And I think that's affected everybody. There's still obviously lots of winners in the industry that are continuing to grow. As you look out as business leaders, what are some of the themes that you and your leadership teams are zeroing in on and proactively engaged on within your business? What are the hard targets that you guys are focused on in terms of and changes that you're having to make in your businesses to proactively stay in front of all the shifts and stuff that are happening in our industry. Some of the things that we see, like we take these shifts, but then we start trying to get down to the root of some of the issues too. And even I hear a lot of people say that adjuster communication, and we just released all these new position statements regarding adjuster communication.

47:09 Yeah. Sometimes there are serious issues, but sometimes I think the workload of adjusters is an issue. And we are seeing a tremendous turnover on the adjuster side. So we have clients who will go through two to three reassignments of an adjuster on a claim. They don't know about it, but it's because we're following up. What I'm seeing is because of the current climate of adjusters, whatever is at the root of that problem, that pre-production phase in between mitigation and repairs is there's this ugly middle. And I think that a lot of people are seeing their capture ratios starting to decline. Sometimes I think what you're saying claims are down. I think there's something going on with our economy. I think there's some indicators like we see a lot of customer DIY, more collection issues, just things like that going on.

47:53 And I think even Verisk has started waving the flag saying, y'all claims are down, like something's happening here. But I think as far as in my company, we're really working on that pre-production phase and making sure that we're like onboarding our customer, setting those expectations. Because if there's one stage of the job where you have the potential to lose them, it's during, you know, pre-production. So for us, there's, you know, a strategy builder on improving the customer onboarding process for us. has been and it was before this claim volume shortage, I will call it. We've been focusing on our market development, our verticals that, what are we focusing on?

48:35 Because what we know, I just met with our team this morning and what we know is that what got us here won't get us where we want to get to in the future. So we can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. So we are strategically focusing on specific verticals that we can go. And then I think communication and education is the biggest piece to what Katie was talking about. The technology that we have available now at our hands and in our industry, it's real-time communication. And that's what everybody is looking for. They don't want to know something this afternoon or tomorrow. I mean, they expect to know it right now.

49:17 And, you know, if you're at somebody's house, they want to know what you're talking about. They want to see pictures and videos and they want to see it now. And they want to be updated. The adjuster's. They don't understand, you know, the lag or if there is one. And then we get frustrated when there's one on their end. So, you know, with the technology in place now, there really is no reason for not, you know, that we can't have real time communication with all the parties involved if you're training and educating and putting the processes in place. And then with the turnover on the carrier side, we have to continue to educate people. you know, these adjusters, which seems backwards, seems like they should be training and educating our teams.

50:00 But it appears that we're we've kind of shifted and we've got team members that are much longer tenured than the adjusters that we're working for. And, you know, we're having to educate them and then. when they start bringing in subjective decisions, whether it's on O&P or, you know, different specific line items, whatever it is, there's an education opportunity there that we have to go because they may not understand, you know, the cost of doing business with materials and labor and overhead and everything else that goes along with it. So it's being patient, making sure that you're building, you know, the necessary relationships to move your business and to help us move the industry forward. Yeah. And then culture just to deal with hiring and retention issues on our end as well.

50:44 And look, I mean, I'm going to go ahead and say it. There's a lot of companies doing a lot of layoffs right now. And, you know, you want to position yourself to be able to compete with the companies down the street to make sure that your place of business is looked at as, you know, a place where people want to work. And so I think a lot of the top performers right now are trying to build market. Yeah. I think that routine piece is tough, right? This industry is just, turnover is bad in general, but man, this industry, holy cow, we just get our feet kicked in, it feels like. It's a new generation. I mean, I just graduated my son from college yesterday.

51:25 Fortunately, he's in the business and in the industry, but his generation and my daughter's generation that's coming through, they think completely different than we did and different than our parents did and different than our grandparents did. And we have to understand what the new generation is thinking and do the things from a culture standpoint to get them involved and to answer their questions. Because unfortunately, they make erratic decisions, short-term decisions, and they can't see the long-term game all the time. So another education make sure that they understand what the opportunity are in front of them longer than 12 months or longer than 24 months or whatever that may be.

52:11 And I think that's a big push in our organization. I think that's maybe a really solid place for us to transition to and maybe get ready to bring this to a close, Ben. You basically made this comment of like, we have an opportunity of do a better job stewarding our people and providing for them a map of vision, where we can go, what the possibilities are. And so as the current president, what is that from your perspective for us as members and for the RIA in general? What do you kind of see as the next few years as these kind of core focuses, the map, right? Give us a vision for where things are going in the near term and how we can best kind of come alongside of that and participate in that journey.

52:54 That could go on probably for another hour, but... You know, I'll try to I'll try to boil it down to a couple of things where, you know, the AGA is is moving at a quicker pace than it ever has. And we're doing great things through our AGA. You know, we're looking to be able to have a voice for people. the industry in the form of a lobbyist, you know, eventually and, you know, be able to fund that. And we're getting closer and closer to that. And I'm excited that, you know, because there is some things that we need to address from regulation, you know, standpoint and education piece. We are working side by side with the IICRC as a partnership that we have never been in as good a place as we are today.

53:36 You know, we're working with their board and their executive committee and excited about where we're moving in that education space there, the membership we've already talked about, but bringing in, continuing to bring in new members at all levels, including larger enterprise members that can bring that relationship capital to the table for the trade association that will help us move mountains quicker. And I think that's going to be great. But I mean, we're working on our affinity partnerships. We're working on Market expansion. We've got code task force in place, carrier task force in place. I mean, at the board meeting we had in Dallas there with the board, the problem wasn't enough trying to figure out what we were going to be working on.

54:22 It was trying to figure out where to cut it off because we had so many people volunteer, board members volunteer and raising their hands to because there's so many people. necessary things that we need to work on. So we're fortunate to have a three-year strategic plan that we're working through and in place. And, you know, even with those in my business and with the association, things come up in between there that are important that you've got to focus on and work on. So those are just a couple of things. Personally, for me, I want to see some young professionals, kind of next generation. I want to identify some of these up-and-coming leaders in our industry feeding into them and leveraging them at the ability we can while they're young and have the ability to grow and learn.

55:07 And then so when we're ready for them to be in leadership capacities, you know, they're they're ready to go and been trained and alongside us and understand how important it is for them to be growing. in the industry, which hopefully is part of that retainage that we talked about, giving them that clear vision of kind of what the next steps are and where the industry is moving, where they're moving, you know, personally and getting them in a place to lead in the future, which is what a lot of that generation is looking for. They just, they need the vision and they want to know that there's opportunities in front of them. Katie, what's your perspective on that? You know what? One of the things that got me most involved in RIA as a young volunteer was the ability to create a young professional restorers group.

55:50 And unfortunately, when we moved over to association headquarters, our budget didn't support it at that point in time when we moved to association headquarters. So we weren't able to carry it over. But as Ben saying, like these young leaders are going to be the next leaders of RIA. And we've got to pour into them and help them build their network, get them engaged in the industry. And to the point where they deeply care about the sustainability of the restoration industry. And so I'm hoping that that's something that we're able to bring back very soon, even if it's just on a casual level to begin with. But for me personally, building those relationships in RIA is what has kept me hanging on for so long, because I know that the harder I work for the industry, the more it impacts the people that I care about the most.

56:33 Katie, I'd love to have a follow-on conversation. I was actually one of the founding board members of our Young Professionals group here in Oregon in our local area. And it was a really incredible experience. So I'd love to maybe collaborate with you a little bit on that. That'd be interesting. Yeah, right on. Okay, well, it's been really a pleasure to connect with you guys. And here's some of the vision casts, where things are headed and all the things that have already been done and are in motion. Yeah, where do folks go, basically? Where's the central data point? Go here and you're going to find out everything you need about RIA. RestorationIndustry.org. And you can find everything you need there. And you can follow us on social media as well. There's going to be webinars out about the cost of doing business survey.

57:15 I think Ben's recording that as soon as we're done here. But RestorationIndustry.org is the single source for everything RIA. Love it. I love it. And the survey facts. Do we have a URL for that survey, guys? Handy? Cost of restoration, right, Ben? Is that what costofrestoration.com? We'll post a curveball. Yeah, we'll find that. So we're going to get that. We'll throw that down in the show notes. Just be paying attention for that. A lot of great restoration leaders are sending out emails to their contact lists. I've gotten hit a couple times now because we happen to be in some common circles. So please, please, please participate. If you own or lead a restoration company, please participate in the survey.

57:57 This is going to do nothing but return big dividends for us. Yeah, we should throw a banner up on our website. I actually made a note for that. Yeah, so we've got a little bit of time. Guys, thank you so much. Katie, Ben, thanks for hanging out with us. Busy leaders, obviously clear vision for what's happening. I hope that listeners have an opportunity to see and feel the momentum behind this and are encouraged to become more and more voices participating in what RIA is doing because we will all benefit in spades from it. So thanks again, you two, for joining us and hanging out with us. Appreciate you. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots.

58:41 And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.