Ep 141 - "Iterating On The Business, with Zach Garrett"

0:00 What up? Yo. Are you ready to go on the road? I need a beard trim. That's my next stop after the office here. Yeah. Then I'll feel travel ready. This is a strategic objective prior to leaving tomorrow morning. Trim the beard. I need a good edge back on this beard. I'm trying to give it some shape. We got a fun guest, friend of the podcast. Yeah, I dig it. Yeah. Zach Garrett, founder and CEO of Liftify. They are exploding. Holy cow. It's really fun when you get a chance to meet other small business owners that are almost paralleling you a little bit. Yeah. It's exploding. Yeah. Over the last few years since we first met Zach, it's like, wow, it's been fun to watch his team grow from he and two or three other people to now... What did he tell us during the podcast?

0:46 Are they up to like 15? or so on their team. But their team's blown up. You know what's cool about Zach? And hopefully people don't underestimate this. As a CEO or a leader, he is so dang strategic. Yeah, he is. And I think that comes out in this episode more than ever just because we really, we intentionally and otherwise, we're not really talking about Liftify from a Liftify perspective, but it's really just talking to him as a CEO that's leading a very vast growing company closely related to our industry. I just respect the things he says. Yeah. It's like Zach to me is kind of one of those dudes where you can trust him. He walks what he talks. I mean, we've seen it even fundamentally all the way to his personal life.

1:28 Yeah. Like he's just so intentional. He's always fun to hear. Like just talking about his business. And I also think, man, this is a guy, he's young. Oh, yeah. And I'm one of those people that like over and over, age is just a number. Oh, yeah. And at that very same time, it's exciting to watch somebody who's at the very beginning of their heroic journey. Man. He's going to, he's going to found other companies. He's like, this is, this is almost like rep one, you know? And so it's incredibly inspiring to see where he's at already. Yeah. And the way that he's thinking about the business, we end up in the conversation too. We talk about sort of what does it look like for us to be customer centric in how we're building and developing our products and services.

2:12 And so we spend a fair bit of time talking about customer experience. I got pretty nerdy and you guys sort of reined me back in. But... That's so unlike you. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, great conversation. We covered a fair bit of ground. I think this would be especially interesting to owners, but probably a lot for anybody to take away from. So yeah, here we go. Let's talk to Zach. Let's get it. Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it.

2:53 I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so. And ultimately share, right? The coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend, share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members. Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging. in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review? Those five-star reviews help us a ton. Right on. And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's Business Opportunity Audit.

3:35 It's free. We provide it at no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's 110 point assessment for your business. And we've now decided to give access to the general public for it. So go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp.com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now. And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. So go check it out, floodlightgrp.com forward slash opportunity. Audit and take the boa. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business. All right, man. Welcome back to the show, dude. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to see you guys. We were just talking about it. It's been kind of a hot minute. We've been connecting, but we just haven't done it formally.

4:17 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have been running. We've been running. So we've seen each other at a couple events. You know, I feel like over the last couple of years and some emails, but yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, you guys have been jamming, dude. And actually, I think Chris was kind of talking before we hit record. We'd like to hear about what's going on just because, you know, I think one of the things that we forget about is, look, most of our strategic partners are the folks that we're bringing into this show. A lot of times they're entrepreneurs. They're all operating and growing businesses just like we are, right? And so I think one of the values in hearing you kind of bring us up to speed even on what's going on behind the scenes at Liftify is that it's good intel for us. You're very intentional in your decision making.

4:58 You're very strategic minded. I think the way that you process what you guys are doing as you grow is helpful. And so anyway, so all that to be said, we'd love to hear the update and then we can dive into some of the other stuff we're anticipating covering together. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, as a quick recap, like Liftify has traditionally helped companies drive more online reviews. And we saw that kind of need in the market four years ago and bootstrapped a business to solve that need and really spent three and a half years, like only focused on that and becoming the best at doing that, that product. And we'll talk more about, I think, you know, like where do we go and where the vision, what are people saying they need, you know, in the market today, but that's where we started. And so we've bootstrapped our business from nothing and just reinvested back in.

5:40 And a lot of our business is not necessarily in the restoration space. Probably only about 10% of our current customers are in the restoration space. And we do a lot of work in HVAC, plumbing, roofing, electrical, other parts of the trades, which I think is a huge advantage because some of those other markets like HVAC is very market forward. They're investing heavily. They are typically leading on tech, on trends, on marketing. And so, That's been helpful for us to kind of push the envelope going forward. Working with franchises was always part of our strategy from the beginning. But one big shift for us is we've scaled to more than a thousand locations now that we're working with has also been private equity or investment groups that there's been a lot of consolidation in the trades in the last year, probably in restoration as well.

6:24 But as interest rates and different things were low in the last few years, businesses started to be acquired and groups started to put together. We found a great kind of niche for ourselves there when we can tell a story of how we've helped standardize and really accelerate large enterprises or franchise systems. And bringing that to kind of conglomerate businesses that have multiple brands, multiple systems and processes and partnering with those corporate teams has been a big part of kind of our growth. journey over the last probably 12 to 18 months is really working with a lot of those larger organizations who maybe have five brands in 12 states and a bunch of locations, a lot of complexity. And we've been doing more and more of that. That's super cool.

7:04 The interesting thing about that is our business model has actually started to shift quite a bit into more like what I hear you calling those is almost more like strategic partners. It's this kind of captivated audience, right? Like when you go and establish a way to create value for them, it gives you access to a bigger fishing pond, right? For us to return to and kind of farm and look for new opportunities. And I think even as restorers, like kind of the connection for us often is like MSAs. Some of these things where we can think through a strategic partnership where they've got ultimately a body made up of our audience or people that we want to do business with. and then leveraging a way to create value for them at their tier, which then in turn earns us the opportunity to get access to the rest of that member group.

7:50 And I think as restorers, we may not leverage that kind of relationship very well. And so anyways, that's super relevant, obviously. Two things, you know, that I've been wrestling with that I think probably a lot of other entrepreneurs, you guys probably going through this too, is like, how much of our energy do we put into being great at what we do and kind of furthering investing time, resource energy into that core solution versus looking at the other things people are asking us for maybe the other ways that we can add value that people are asking us for. And there's no perfect answer, you know, right or wrong answer. It's just, you got to kind of gut check it out. I think I'm wrestling with that, you know, every day. And I think also just even with my time as our team is skilled from one to three to five to 10 plus.

8:31 And there's a lot of different things like we have to set up like reporting lines now. And like, what can I truly let go of and building in the processes? And like that is I'm like the visionary guy. You know, if you're like an EOS person, not the implementer, you know. And so how do we do that in our business and like have it actually evolve? And how do I evolve as a leader to actually accomplish what we want to accomplish? I think both those things are really hard. For those, but transparently as you grow, you know, as you change or people ask stuff, it's just like the biggest tension is like, what do I need to do today? And who do I need to be to like take this business to the next level? And that's the fun, but it's also probably the biggest kind of underlying stressor that if you don't run a business and you've never done that, like you just can't understand, you know what that's like.

9:14 Yeah. Dude, I want to nerd out on a topic. Maybe we'll have time to touch on it. But I know you were getting ready to ask something. I want to come back to that topic. So let's maybe hold on to that. Like, you know, where do we spend our time and energy to create that return? That's... Well, I was just curious before we move on, like, you know, you mentioned that 10% of the business is restoration. I'm just curious because Brandon and I are always kind of keeping our ear to the ground with friends we know in other trades and other service verticals. We had Tim Fitzpatrick on recently, who's a pretty large-scale painter in Oregon and has expanded into other lines like construction and so forth. And it's always interesting hearing from leaders in these other businesses and one, recognizing it's all the same thing on some level, running a service company.

10:01 So I'm just curious, as you've been diving into these other service lines, I guess, where do you see the most innovation and the most progressive business thinking? or customer service orientation? Like, are there any of these verticals that you guys are in that you're just like, man, this is super pro. Like in general, this industry sector just seems to be a little bit further ahead, maybe of some of the other service trades. Anything stand out to you offhand? Yeah, HVAC. Really? They are five to 10 years ahead. The big ones, if you target multi-location businesses, some of those businesses could be 50, 100 million, 200 million, 300 million. They can be very large in their footprint. And because they have those resources, I think what we see is their digital strategy, like the way that they run their paid advertising campaigns, even their organic campaigns.

10:49 They're focused on local, like adding satellite locations, you know, Google pages, different pins, like they really have that dialed in really good. And then I think the customer service element, just completely different. Like we work with a great HVAC company that their average response time is like three minutes to a customer request. And they have an in-house team that just sits there and just engages with the customer back and forth all day long. And, you know, in their world, like they're not the cheapest, right? But like their brand is their reputation, their customer service, all of that stuff. And I think they earn it, you know, and they really center around it. So I think if for any of your listeners, if you want to see what the next iteration, especially with marketing or even tech, the way that they're investing in tech, investing in AI and those things like that.

11:32 Look at your big like A-Strat companies and your market. And a lot of times those will be kind of the people from a trades perspective that are really cutting edge. Do you think some of that's just driven? But you said the resources like these companies kind of just grutted through it, right? And started creating mass and scale and figuring that out. And so then they're like, what do we do with these additional resources? Invest them back into tech and knowledge, things like that. Is there something else? I mean, because for somebody listening, you say, well, they have more money to spend. Okay. But is there a mentality? Is there some kind of influence or a driver behind that? It's so that they know when they create these extra resources, you know, that it's a wise decision to invest this way. Yeah, well, I think certainly the resources help, right?

12:15 You can, you know, if you compare it to a restoration project, you can install a new furnace in four hours and have multiple guys do multiple things and you don't even have to do that again, right? And so the revenue that comes from those versus like a recon job, you know, just a different level of effort to do that. But also the other thing that you have is you also have a ton of competition in those markets. Like you have hundreds of small guys, right? And then you have some big players. Now you have private equity that's in it. And making every paid lead is dramatically more expensive than it used to be. You know, every Google click, every paid lead. And so you have to be great at the brand building. You've got to be great at the customer service. You have to, it's forcing companies to level up because that competition is so fierce.

12:57 There's more companies than there is jobs, you know, in a lot of those sectors. And I don't know, that may be true, you know, in certain industries, even in restoration, but I think... from a competitiveness, probably because of the profit margins and the speed and how the low level of effort it takes to get into some of those business, the competition is fierce. So like, just like anything, you know, when the competition is fierce, it forces you to level up. You know, that is kind of interesting because I'm not sure that I've ever, and this might just be naive on my part, but I don't know that I've ever had that kind of feeling about competition in the industry, where I was worried that due to the fact that XYZ restores in our market, we're not going to be able to make progress.

13:39 We can't grow. It's going to be difficult. I've never really, I think, had context where I was worried about that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist or anything because it does, but it just didn't ever feel that much of an issue. It felt more like I was always competing against ourselves versus competing against another company. And so I think that is interesting. And I think one of the ways that showed up was things like we're not often bidding against somebody, let's say, for emergency services. Maybe more so we get into the recon side of the business, more so obviously in commercial, there's more ROM demand, all the different things. But there is kind of where this shows up is when we start talking to people about scaling into commercial and they start talking about wanting to do more work, let's say with multifamily or these larger commercial companies.

14:26 And they're like, no, we want bids. We want ROMs before we'll say yes and allow you to start conducting services. The pushback on the contractors part, they're so blown away that they have to compete for the job That I think to me, that's just kind of a reminder that like, yes, there's competition, but I'm not sure the average restorer is really worried about their competition. And it's part of, I think at times, what gives us the ability to be a little lazy about leveling up that demand. Like I'm just thinking the way that we're not very great often about pre-creating schedules for construction jobs. We don't knee jerk into our standard process. We're going to develop a number, a scope, a ROM right away. Feeling the friction and trying to install those kinds of behaviors into restoration companies at large, that to me feels like a factor we're not very cognizant of or influenced by.

15:16 And so that is interesting to me. that we have an opportunity to learn from our counterparts where competition's very aggressive, then monitor what they spend their money on. And that could be a good reminder for us to shift some of our strategic initiatives around that kind of idea. That was kind of a long freaking way to say that, but... Well, I think it goes back to what you initially said about this one particular HVAC company that has a whole team of people that's basically just waiting on the phones. A three-minute response time. I think one of the things that we observe both within our client, our book of clients, and then just externally that comes up a lot is call intake. And... It's surprising for a business like ours that thrives on the unplanned and unexpected, like we're 24-7 operators, how poor generally as an industry we are at our call intake and follow-up.

16:06 It's not uncommon for people to pay $500 or $1,000 for a lead, like a water damage lead or a fire damage lead or something like that. And often those leads don't get executed on. People will call in, somebody will be off to the bathroom. They don't have a really clearly defined call forwarding system or they have a single receptionist and nobody else is trained on call intake. You've undoubtedly heard our ads for AnswerForce on the podcast and we're big believers. Not just an AnswerForce, great team, but just the concept of having a redundant call intake system. It's just so important. And yet for some reason, as an industry, we're so hyper-focused on the tradecraft and the certified type of work and service we do and the technicality of it and all of that stuff.

16:55 But I think as an industry, we haven't yet, I guess, developed a pride in the business of the business and really drilled in on... those kind of details. And certainly I think there was a time where we weren't as zeroed in on it either. I remember distinctly when we were first operating together, it came up in a leadership meeting because I think we were losing our receptionist. They were taking another job somewhere else and we were like considering that next hire. And there was this whole conversation around how, man, we probably need to elevate this role. Like I think traditionally when you hire a receptionist, it's one of your cheapest hires you make in the business. It's like, how hard can it be? You know, it's like- Very entry level. Yeah, we maybe put a script in their hands, a checklist of ask them this and then do that.

17:38 And it's like, man, how much money did we spend to get the phone to ring? And I think part of the disconnect too is that so many restorers are really driven. They're not very sophisticated. That sounds derogatory. They haven't felt the need to get into pay-per-click or paid advertising. And so it's all reputation. It's all market demand. Maybe they're in a market where they don't have a ton of competition. And the phone just rings. It just rings enough to make their business work. And maybe they do some TPA stuff. And they've just... I think they don't have a connection to how much they're spending or every single phone call that comes in. Like they don't think about, gosh, all of the overhead expense, all of the sunk cost that goes into having their operation open.

18:19 And what does that mean in terms of the cost of every one of those calls that comes through the phone? I think as an industry, we've done a poor job kind of educating ourselves around that. And so it sounds like anyway, the HVAC space because of competition is way more hyper focused on. capturing those leads conversion rate and all that kind of stuff. So I'm curious for context, because some people are saying, well, God, I can't afford to have more than one receptionist or who has time to do all that training? You know, I barely have enough text to do the work. We hit blah, blah, blah. Like for context, what size of business is this one you're referring to that has a team of people monitoring the phones and follow up and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. I mean, this one I'm thinking of is 17 location, $100 million.

18:59 Okay. You know, business, right? I thought you were going to say, well, they're like 4 million and they got 25 employees. But I will tell you, I think we also work with even single location businesses in that space that they don't have a whole team, right? But like, because there's urgency and like that phone's only going to ring so many times and it's very much weather dependent, you know, in their world, similar, you know, somewhat similar to restoration, depending on what's going on, where... When it's hot, it's hot. Everybody needs you right there. When it's cold, it's cold. Furnaces are breaking like they need you now. So there's real urgency, you know, like get back to that lead. And so I think it is a lot of a culture, you know, a culture thing. But yeah, I would just say like, look at that, right? Like the other thing HVAC companies do is like memberships, right?

19:41 And I don't know how that could apply to restoration, but a lot of HVAC companies we work with now, they have a constant monthly revenue stream from people that have signed up for memberships for quarterly maintenance. It's a subscription model. You know, and so they're layering in new revenue streams, right? You know, for people coming in, checking on them, you know, seeing how that goes. I think there's a lot to learn from, you know, if you just kind of get out, get out of your industry or even like listen to some of their content, right? Like there's podcasts, different, different resources that, you know, just might be different, you know, than something that you're thinking and some applies, some doesn't, but. I always get a lot of value from doing that stuff. And sometimes I think we work like in the painting space, right, with the big franchise, hundreds of locations. And sometimes I think like, just get out of the painting, you know, industry, right, like get out of that and go listen to Head, Heart & Boots or go listen to other stuff like you're going to learn from just what other people are doing.

20:28 Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you say that in terms of this idea of them coming up with some more consistent rev models. Here's an idea too. Like how many of us as restorers have really good partnerships with HVAC companies? And if maybe all your existing relationships are with some of the smaller teams... Doesn't mean you guys can't think creatively out of the box together, but don't be afraid also to make some connections with some of those larger entities. I know we're cost conscious, but maybe what we would offset some of that higher premium cost using that particular sub is what kind of relationship access and or monthly opportunity could we partner with them on?

21:09 So in these maintenance contracts, there's an opportunity for us to create more value by that maintenance contract, in quote, being more comprehensive in nature. And so maybe there's a way for us to add our service delivery or specialty to the mix when it comes to like, let's say, some duct cleaning, right? or whatever those things that we could potentially partner with them on. So get creative. I think there is an opportunity here for us to lean into something like that. I think some of the stuff that we do on the restoration side in the residential space may not be as easy to create that kind of monthly maintenance type relationship. But I bet you if you partnered with some of your subs, you could come up with something that actually makes a whole lot of sense for everybody involved.

21:50 So anyways, that's a great nugget, man, that you had there. And maybe one way, too, to just begin those conversations is I feel like especially the larger companies, one of the benefits they have is they do have more capacity. You know, like they have more professional staff, like they're not running on the treadmill as much as a local operator. And so even just saying, hey, you know, if you have a connection, even it's loose, like, hey, will you give me 30 minutes to sit down and just explain to me, like, how do you handle your intake and measure it? Right. It was like, I just want to learn from you. I've seen you guys are great at it. Like people love that. Right. Like when you talk about how good they are, I think people would be surprised at how that may even just open a conversation, right. To a larger thing of just, Hey, I want to learn from you on like, how do you measure how long that call takes? What does it look like?

22:31 Like I'm in a different industry, you know, not competing with you. I just want to learn from you. And, you know, try to have those conversations. And I just think there's not enough of that that goes on kind of cross industry. You know, at least from what we see, people are very siloed in their little niches and tribes. It's probably part of our human nature, right? They just stay in their lanes. But I think just not being afraid to ask that, you know, what's the worst thing that happens? They just don't do it. You know, and then you're at where you're at anyway. It's the whole you have not because you ask not mentality, right? Okay, so I'm really curious. I'm interested to go down a line of thought here. So one of the things that you mentioned early was you flexing a little bit, just trying to stay focused on the right things as you guys scale and grow. I mean, you guys are moving into new market spaces.

23:13 You're having to learn how to market to a whole new group, right? And that group often isn't completely great at buying services. I'm talking about our industry. There's a lot of educating, I think, when you're a service delivery or service provider to our industry. Okay. All that being said, one of the things that we've admired about you, and this has nothing to do with the tech that Liftify is responsible for, but you as an operator is... you remain creative and curious. You are building a business with the aggressive pursuit of expansion. And so that drives some certain types of behaviors and posture in you. The three of us were talking about some of the things that you're strategically engaged in and thinking through.

23:56 And here's what stood out to me. And then I'd love to just hear what's driving some of this research and what you guys are watching. learning. But here's what I felt like I took away from one of our last catch-ups. And that was, okay, the thing about Zach that I admire is he's willing to be creative and not be completely married to the system and process that you've leveraged to get you here. Okay? Which is good. It's like, we can't build our entire businesses on maybe. We have to make commitments. We have to tow those lines. And though, if we're a growing organization and leveling up is part of our with a loose hand. And I feel like your guys' organization, whether it's been forced to or not, lives that out.

24:39 And you were telling us all the fun stuff that you guys are doing at Liftify. I want you to do that for us today. And the reason I just kind of want to set the stages is for us as listeners... Just think, okay, what do I do with this in my own business? Because we all have an opportunity. And of course, we're going to hear about what Liftify is doing. But there's a purpose behind it. And that purpose is universal. Meaning us as entrepreneurs and key leaders, we can leverage the same mentality to get gains in our teams, our business, our book of business, whatever we're doing. So anyways, I just want to set that so that we don't get into this thing where it's a fucking pitch fest because I hate that crap. So anyways, talk to us. You were really excited about what you're doing, but walk us through some of those core components and what drove it.

25:20 Yeah, I think really candidly for us, I mean, like you said, Brandon, I hope that that comes off our brand with all of our customers, like innovation. Like... I think when we came in and we blew through some new things people weren't doing around the review space and did some innovative things around that, like that was core to what we do. But now we've been doing that for a long time. Right. And so you want to continue to innovate in that lane and that space. And we are, you know, and you're continuing to do that. But also what happened for us very transparently is we have kind of two different customer buckets. I put it in like a discretionary spend bucket. That's the painting your house, putting in custom closets, you know, doing things, making purchases that you don't have to do. And then there's the non-discretionary, more like the EMS, you know, services, HVAC, restoration, those things that happen.

26:06 And a lot of our business was in the discretionary bucket. And for years, they didn't need leaps, right? Post-COVID, people had cash. They're spending a ton of money on their homes. And they had leaps. That wasn't a problem. We were helping them capitalize on those jobs and build for the future. But all of a sudden, in 2023, that turned dramatically. Like, those markets are down significantly, you know, year over year. And back to kind of 2019 levels. A lot of them, which, you know, if you'd have told them they'd had a four year run, that was awesome. They would have taken it five years ago. But now once you're used to that, it hurts. Right. You know, to kind of fall back down to that and they're having to adjust. And so I think for me, it was the first thing was just kind of listening to our customers, like being intentional, like having businesses who were struggling, either challenging the value we're providing or the ROI, you know, on each thing, just doing it.

26:55 And it's frustrating because you believe in what you're doing. You know that it drives value and maybe your customers don't see why they should pay you and what it's worth or maybe the value you've provided. I think comparing it to a restoration job, right? When the job goes great and you do the restoration right and all of that, people sometimes don't appreciate that. what they could have gotten if they would have gone with a bad contractor, right? That would have screwed it up. And so they just don't see that because you did a good job. And so they maybe don't value the cost that you're charging for that. That is worth it. But I think very similarly for us, you know, we had businesses that had earned hundreds of Google reviews, They have more organic leads, you know, than they've ever had, but they didn't have as many as last year because their markets are down. And so all of a sudden they're questioning everything.

27:37 And so I think the first thing for us was just like getting outside of my own head and just being willing to just hear people out on saying, hey, I need more from you. Like I need, if I'm going to pay Liftify X amount per month for this, I need you to do more than reviews. I need you to help me drive leads. You know, I need you to help me improve my customer experience, like increase the number of touch points we're doing, like create this and just like listening. You know, and I think you do enough listening and you carve out the time and it's not easy to do, but you carve out the time you start to get themes. What are the core things that keep coming up in people's journeys? And not just even your customers, but even partners, right?

28:19 Like, Chris, you and I had a conversation in December that was the exact conversation I was having with a franchisor, CEO, and a local one-location business. you know, in like a two week span and your conversation, they were all pretty similar, you know, in what they were desiring or felt like companies needed as kind of a next evolution. So that provides clarity, you know, and it's messy and it's frustrating. It's hard to get out of your day to day to just listen to your customers on, what should we really do? And then you have to have some level of discernment on like, what are the things we're just not going to do, you know, or get into or be good at, that's just not in our lane. And what are the things that are really where we're going? So I don't know if that answers your question, but just like, I think the first step for us was like, one, there's practical need of like markets change and you have to be willing to say, Hey, like people don't feel the same about you or about the product or service you provided because those markets are shifting.

29:11 So yeah. How do you respond to that? Well, I think you just got to listen to them and say, hey, like we built a good relationship here. Like you believe in us as a company, but like, what do you need from me to add value to you? And that value changes as markets change. And that's hard. Yeah, I think that's an awesome answer. It's totally comprehensive and it totally makes sense and it's universally effective. All the language that you just used is business 101 is absolutely universally applicable to all of us and what we're considering in our business. We just went through this. Chris and I and our team, same thing. We're just looking at the consulting that's available in the space. And we're looking at how people and teams are doing that.

29:52 And we're asking ourselves the question. And we're hearing input from our current book and from prospects of, yeah, it's good, but... And it's like that we want to find out why did it stop at but... dot, dot, dot. Why is it only good? Why are we not hearing? My mind is blown from the relationship and from the experience. And so that's caused us to go back to work. And we've been behind the scenes making some very huge strategic shifts in how we deliver and what we're investing time and money into to prepare for Q4. So it's universal. You know, it's like the same kind of cause and effect scenario for us in a service offering business or like a white collar in quotes business. Universal, man. Same thing. Like there's cause and it puts us in a position where we can either dig in and allow our ego to hold to, oh, this is the thing.

30:38 This is what we built. And or we can go back and remain curious and flexible and be like, okay, well, the client, the people we're trying to serve is telling us that we need to moderate. Like there's an opportunity to do something slightly different to create a higher level of demand or value? This is good. So I've had this conversation in my head percolating pretty much since ours back in December, whenever that was, about customer experience. And I think it really ties in with the service you guys provide You know, I think part of what Brandon and I have learned to take more and more seriously as floodlights grown is that part of our job, because I feel like part of our value proposition to our clients and ultimately to our head, heart and boots audience in the industry and so forth, is that at any given time, we have access and we're observing dozens of companies of various sizes, right?

31:26 And it gives us a certain picture of the industry that very few other people have, you know? And likewise with you, I mean, with all the different industries and companies you guys work with, you have a certain amount of visibility into patterns and stuff that you see too, right? And when it relates to customer experience and five-star Google reviews, I've been thinking a lot about this because I think there's something that's been progressively happening with online reviews where they hold less and less value to the consumer who's using them to make a decision. The SEO value is still very obvious and obviously massive. And we've seen it over and over again. We'll recommend Liftify to our clients. And within like 30 days, they're seeing lift in terms of their inbound call volume and all this kind of stuff.

32:08 So there is without a doubt, massive business value in the five-star Google review. But what I mean by that is like when I, for example, go shopping on Amazon, everything has 4.9 star reviews. You know what I'm talking about? I mean, there's rare exceptions where it's like somebody's reviews really suck. But I think potentially a problem, I guess, with reviews, say 10 years from now or five years from now is that the cost to the customer to give a five-star review is nil. There's no investment on their part to give you a raving review. except for a very, very small amount of time on their part to click the five stars and potentially just do the five star click and not even say anything. Right. So I think one of the things that happens with service companies, and ours included, to be honest, is that we look at our average Google review score and we think, well, gosh, we must be doing something right.

32:59 Right. Because we've got 100, we've got 500, we have 1000 Google reviews, average 4.9 stars. And yet we have potentially no idea what our customer experience actually is. Does that make sense at all? So an example of this is when I think that there's a lot of companies in our industry and probably elsewhere that have a practice and maybe even incentivize their technicians or their project managers asking for Google reviews. And I've been asked as a homeowner by service professionals to give them a five-star review. And there's been some kind of script like, hey, you know, it means a lot to me and my team. In fact, I get judged based on my average Google reviews and my customers give. So I'd really appreciate it if you'd consider giving me a five-star Google review, da-da-da-da-da.

33:41 And as a consumer, even if I got kind of, I'm not wowed, I don't want to let down that frontline guy or gal. And so I'm inclined to give that five-star review almost as long as I didn't receive really crappy service. I'm probably going to scan the QR code, do the five-star review, because I want Johnny to get a good report from his boss. And I'm not, to be honest, I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but I think that there's a huge missed opportunity for businesses in the way that we think about Google reviews and we think about customer experience right now. Because most companies, I think, are flying blind as to what their actual lived customer experience is like to the customer. Does that make sense?

34:22 It does. It does. Group reviews can tell a really imperfect story about how our customer experience really is in our business. Because everybody gives five-star reviews. Yeah, we see that in the data, right? Like when people get online reviews, it's either a five or a one, right? Like there's no threes. you know, less than 1% of any company's reviews will be three-star reviews, right? But some of them probably had a three-star experience, right? So are those people not responding, you know, to that request? Or are they leaving a five-star because they like Johnny, to your point? And I think I'll do a live confession with you on how I've learned and changed. If you listen to even podcasts that I joined three years ago, right? I was kind of railing against the idea of internal surveys.

35:02 You know, and I need to run an internal survey process at a global company. I got into this whole space as I learned net promoter score and studied that and like understood that. And I thought, man, the world is going to this public feedback and validation. And that's how algorithms are made. And that's part of our consumer behavior. And companies just need to do that. And all that is still true. But that's not customer experience measurement. That's marketing. right? Like that is brand building. It's marketing. You're not learning your customer experience. Maybe you're learning what people do well. If they leave comments on why they're leaving that five-star review, there's learning there, but you're not learning on the little things, you know, and how to get better. Cause let's be honest, even the one-star reviews, a lot of them are either unreasonable or someone who wasn't a real customer, whatever you like, we don't, we don't see a lot of, Really substantive, valuable, one-star reviews that tell you how you need to get better.

35:53 You know, certainly there are some of those. So I think one way to look at it, I know, Chris, this is part of our conversation, certainly where I've evolved and we've evolved as a company and what people were telling us is great. I have hundreds or thousands of reviews now. Can you also help me understand what my customer actually thinks about me? Can you help me understand what points in the project like maybe didn't go as well? as they thought. And maybe we're not getting that, you know, at the end of that job. Like, how can you help me understand that? How we're really doing on our job? How I can really get better? Because I love all this public feedback. That's great for my marketing. You know, I can use that. All of our campaigns can help our conversion rate get found more. And that's where we started. But I think as we started being asked that question, Chris, I think that's one of the things you asked me, right?

36:36 Like, how do I use your cruise experience, right? Like overall, like you just didn't respond because you just had a bunch of little negative experiences. And how can we help every company not just get a Google review, but measure the experience, identify those points, really get better as an organization? And that's where really we've evolved in what we want to accomplish. Liftify.com forward slash bloodlight. You've heard Brandon and I talk a bunch of times about the importance of Google reviews. Maybe you even heard our episode with Zach Garrett, the CEO and founder. Recency, consistency, two of the most important things when it comes to maximizing the benefit from your Google reviews. Why not use an outside partner?

37:18 Liftify is targeting 20 to 25% conversion, right? So if you do a thousand jobs a year, you ought to be adding right now, 200 to 250 reviews a year, every single year. If you're not doing that, you owe it to yourself to get a free demo from liftify.com. See their system, see how it works, see how affordable it is. I promise you, you'll thank us. Liftify.com forward slash bloodlight. You know, we spend a lot of money and a lot of attention trying to get that first call. And one of the things that we do once it happens is sometimes we leave it to chance, right? Who picks up the phone? How do they respond? How do they walk that client into a relationship with us? Well, one of the benefits of partnering with a team like AnswerForce.com is we can systemize that.

38:00 We can make it more consistent. We can also have backup for when our teams need that help, right? Somebody goes on vacation. Somebody's out sick. We get a storm surge. We get cat event. All sorts of things can have an impact on how we receive that client. But the most important thing is they need to know that they've chosen the right team. And so AnswerForce.com can support you, be a bolt-on partner to help you consistently produce an awesome onboarding experience with that first call with your client. So AnswerForce.com forward slash answerForce.com. blood light. Sounds great. CNR Magazine, we're friends with all the folks at CNR. Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry.

38:43 Right? You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. Right? She's got that. Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Right? CNR is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. It is the water cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine.com. Follow them on LinkedIn. Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us. If you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine.com. You guys, many of you have already heard about actionable insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry.

39:25 But how many of you are already leveraging the actionable insights profile for Xactimate? That's the game changer. It's essentially an AI tool that's walking alongside of you as you write your estimate, bringing things to your attention that should be added, that could be considered. All of them items that increase our profitability, increase the effectiveness and the consistency of that scope. And it can do anything from helping a new team member assimilate some estimating best practices. And it also helps the grizzled vets add back that few percent that we've just forgot over time. So actionable insights, get insights.org forward slash floodlight and take a look at what the actionable insights exactimate profile could be doing for you and your team.

40:13 I think ultimately where this is headed is that the substance in reviews is going to become more and more and more important. In terms of what are the specific things that people are saying about this particular business's people or process, the narrative, the things that people are saying in Google reviews are going to become more important in terms of how people make buying decisions. Because again, it's just more and more, everybody has a 4.8 rating or a 4.9 and hundreds of Google reviews because people are starting to realize, holy crap, this has an influence on my SEO, my organic inbound lead gen, all this kind of stuff. And I was thinking about a really positive experience I had. And to be perfectly honest, I can't remember the business.

40:53 So how terrible of an example is this? But it stuck out in my mind, this experience with a service provider, where at the front end of the service experience... when they initially responded, as part of their introduction and rapport building and kind of stage setting for doing the bid, providing the service to us, they said, hey, part of my goal in delivering service to you and doing this for you guys is that by the end of it, I would have earned a five-star Google review. I would have actually earned it based on the service level that I'm going to provide you guys. So if at any point in the process, there's confusion or frustration or anything else that would prevent you from calling this a five-star service experience, would you please let me know?

41:35 And I thought, man, that is a really cool way to set the stage for... not only what kind of service should I expect, they're essentially telling me, hey, you should expect kind of this above and beyond five-star, awesome, 100% A-plus kind of experience for me. And if it ever ceases to be that, please let me know so that I can correct it. It was just such awesome stage setting. And then I thought to myself, well, how is that in contrast to what a lot of people are doing in terms of their Google reviews? And I described that earlier. It's like, you know, Johnny Technician at the very end. Hey, please give me a good review because my boss pays attention and da-da-da. I just, I wonder, I wonder how much more that would improve Google.

42:15 not only the quality of the review that we get in the end, in terms of the specificity and them identifying the service person specifically they work with, like, oh my God, Johnny was so great. He checked in with us every day before they left the job site, right? Like it's more contextual and it's more relevant to the actual experience they got. But then I also wonder if companies put that into practice how that would drive the actual service delivery, right? When that expectation is set up front, it's like, hey, part of my goal here is to provide a five-star experience. You know, at the end, I'm not going to ask you for a five-star Google review. My hope is that you'll want to give us a five-star Google review based on the service you experienced compared to other services you've received in the past.

42:56 You know what I'm saying? That the way that we pursue Google reviews, if we shifted that a little bit, that it actually would drive better behavior on the part of the team too. And so I'm curious about your thoughts in like what Liftify might be doing or having your kind of product roadmap that might feed this conversation. kind of thing in terms of customer experience. Because one of the things that I've been kind of preaching against with our clients is incentivizing people on the team to collect reviews. Because I think it's a bad behavior. And I'm kind of sticking my neck out here saying that may be an unpopular opinion. And I know that there are some companies that have lots and lots of five-star reviews and they swear by we give out Amazon gift cards and all this for every review.

43:37 And I'm just like, look, the reviews ought to be a reflection of the experience people had. Not because we're essentially putting pressure on them so that Johnny gets a good job review by his boss, right? Or the team is going to be really happy that you gave up. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, that's part of why any of the listeners work with us. You know that a lot of our messaging comes from the business owner. not the technician, right? And the framing is usually, hey, like, would you help our business? Like, how was your experience from the owner's perspective? Because not about the technician, right? You know, who's there, like, you're trying to do it from a different lens. So I think in general, I agree. I'm not, we're not opposed to incentivizing the teams. I think there can be a place for that. I think you incentivize the behaviors you want, right? And I think What hasn't changed, Chris, is like, you need those reviews, right?

44:20 Like, if you start losing to your competitor, you're going to fall in the rankings, right? So, like, it's a game, you know, of, it's a marketing tool that has gone from, like, really innovative to, like, table stakes. Like, you got to be there. You know, like, you got to do that. But I think what we're doing is one of our value props, we're really good at running campaigns and getting people to respond. right? Like historically for a Google review, we figured that out. Well, we've taken that and applied that to internal feedback as well. And now I would say confidently, we're great at helping companies get feedback from their customers, whether that's internally, meaning like through a survey on data that just comes back to you and that public information. So if you can maximize the volume of feedback that you're getting about your business throughout the job, after the job, the jobs you won, the jobs you lost, you know, whatever, we can just help you maximize the amount of feedback.

45:09 If you had that data from surveys and from reviews and all of that, and then using AI with visualization, what we're doing now is helping companies make sense of that data, right? And they can look at, hey, in the water mitt phase of my job. As an example, if I do a touch point with a customer in that phase, just an internal quick survey, right? Or quick text. Hey, how's it going? Gives quick rating. How's it going? Just give us, you know, or actual text feedback. How can you actually look at that data later and say, hey, here's the things that are good about this part of our business. Here's the things that are not going as well. And I think from Kennedy, from like our value props to the companies goes up insurmountably when you're not just helping them on the marketing and get a Google review. But now you're helping me get feedback around my whole company, my business and helping me make sense of it and actualize it so I can get better or so I can just reward the things that are really good.

45:59 OK, man, 70 percent of the feedback is about our team and how great they are. Whatever. Man, I should really lean into that, you know, with the team and not six on the negatives, but also the positives. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because I feel like part of this conversation topic also sits in just the prioritization of time. And I think one of the things that we lose a grasp of, and this is absolutely the case for me, I really struggle with taking the time to sit down with the data, with information and analyze it and really think proactively and strategically. Like, what is this saying to me? How should it modify the behavior of my organization differently? What does it need to change in terms of process implementation and some of these core behaviors?

46:41 Because one, I'm really wired more to gut. My natural instinct is I'm going to feel the situation and I'm going to respond accordingly to what I'm feeling and experiencing versus being driven by data. I think the other thing is, is that I can easily get swept up. And I know I'm one of many in this tribe of I just am so caught up in doing business, doing the business that I'm not thinking that way. I'm not taking the time to prioritize looking at that kind of information and saying to myself, this time spent has all the value and probably a lot more than any other thing I could be doing today in the business.

47:24 Because it doesn't feel like... like you're doing when you're looking at information and thinking in quotes. And so maybe just to get from your perspective, I know you're more analytical than I am by default, just in your natural wiring, but what happened in your business? business's trajectory or your professional development where it became as important to you and you could be equally convicted spending time and energy on the strategy versus doing the work in your business? What triggers that threshold for you and what are you doing to maintain that cadence? Yeah, well, it's certainly a work in progress, like for all of us. But I think just the first thing you have to do is you have to admit that like, you can't trust yourself in that gut completely on how things are actually going.

48:10 I'll give you a good example from a restoration company we work with just with their public reviews. I got a message from the CEO. This is a large company that we work with. So the team is, they turn it on, whatever they got going. Team's freaking out about their bad reviews. They want to find a way to filter out all of these reviews. So that's not a great email to get, right? With this new, you know, big multi-location independent company we're working with that's a restore. We looked at the data and 7% of the reviews they'd earned were negative. 93% were positive. And they thought it, I mean, literally joined a call with them. And they said, we thought it was like half and half. Like he actually hadn't looked at the data. They just would see five stars dinging in.

48:51 But when that one star came in, all of a sudden, that's all they talked about, right? And so we had the conversation. They just needed to see the data. And, you know, it's like, yes, I will trade. 93 good responses for seven negative and two of them we can fix. So, you know, okay, now it's fine. Okay. Like I feel better about this, but that's a good example of how we just lie to ourselves. You know, we're just, we're imperfect at it. Like a good example for us in the restoration spaces, I pushed hard on restoration over the last year and our team had to come to me and like, I ignored them three times and saying restoration companies that don't have a good CRM integration I think it's evolving and changing, but restoration CRMs are typically behind other industries and their ability to have APIs and data flow.

49:32 They are not getting us data, and this is causing us problems. And we're just not able to succeed for them because we can't get them to give us data. And it's taken a lot of bandwidth from our team. And I ignored that for too long, right? So some of it's just stubbornness, like somebody just has to get through to you. But if I had actually looked at that data and thought, man... all of our customers who we call them unengaged, like we track people who don't send, man, restoration is 10% of our business was like 70% of the people who are unengaged, you know, right, or whatever. Like, I just needed to look at that data, but somebody had to put it in my face and to look at it. So those are just examples, right? Of like, you just have to recognize that maybe your stubbornness or whatever you think, like you just have to be humble enough to say like, let me prove it to myself with the data.

50:13 Like, let me let the data tell me what I need to do And then I think actually, like if you're willing to do that, it's just how do I actually see a clear picture of the data? Because I don't know if you guys do this. I certainly do this in my life. Like I can make the data say whatever I want it to say. Right. You know, like I can make that narrative work on why we should put all of our energy into restoration companies that don't have a CRM, you know, right. But you're just stepping back and saying, what is it actually telling me? Right. Like, what is it? actually telling me and just getting other input from other people too, whether that's people on your team or peers, sometimes just talking it out. Right. And just saying like, Hey, like, what are you seeing? And just helps you kind of see it in a different way that you've got.

50:54 So I think that's been big for me just personally is like recognizing that like, maybe I should not be as stubborn and to just, you know, look at it, but also that your mind isn't always telling you the truth about what the data actually says. So you might want to just look at it. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like, I know when I hear you say those things, my kind of initial response is, well, duh. But then it's like, it's so freaking hard to live out though. Like it's so hard to live out. I'm literally putting together a webinar that we'll be putting out later today, right? After we record, we'll be hanging with the rebels and we're going to walk through a webinar. And one of the things I'm trying to do with that webinar is give people some new tools to create a value for their time.

51:36 Like to create context for the value of their time. And this kind of concept like what we're talking about right now is so relevant even for me because as we continue to build Floodlight, I'm a service provider still in my own business. I'm just like most people that run a company. Most of us, if we're in our development phase or mom-pa phase, if you will, you're part of the service delivery offering still. And it's crazy to me, like things that I can get caught up in. For instance, it's very easy for me to get isolated in this year's P&L when I'm trying to make a financial decision or a decision on where to spend my time and energy. So example would be like, sometimes me doing something is cheaper, which therefore makes my P&L look a little better this year.

52:22 And I get to keep a little bit more profit this year. And if I'm just thinking about my decision making in the context of this year's P&L, that was very sound decision making. But one of the things we're trying to talk with entrepreneurs about is, yeah, but where are you trying to go? What is the value or the thing that you're trying to accomplish and build? And was there opportunity cost associated with the fact that you made a decision based on this year's P&L and not that target out on the horizon? So like example... as a team, we're really leaning hard into this model of creating an assessment of our company based on its enterprise value. Meaning a comprehensive look at what your company's worth based on top line, bottom line, but then taking into real consideration these scalable elements of the strategic initiatives in your business, the stuff that somebody post-LOI is going to dig into as part of their due diligence and begin...

53:20 away the value of your company because you're doing everything. It's all about your great personality and the strong arm that you hold around your team, right? All this stuff that's not actually a system. Anyways, here's my point. If I look out on the horizon and I say, hey, floodlight could be worth, let's call it whatever the number is. $10 million, and today it's worth two, there's $8 million of earning that I can spend my time and my attention on. And if I get too focused on this year's P&L, I'm going to not give my time to the things that get me closer to that $8 million gap I'm trying to earn. And if you think about the value of your time spent in this year's P&L versus trying to gain an additional $8 million in value in your company, enterprise value, let me tell you, it reframes what you should prioritize your time with big time.

54:10 And I got my face kicked in a couple weeks ago when we went up to Chicago to do some training with a strategic partner. on this thing? Because I just like every other entrepreneur can get caught up in the, yeah, but I'm a service provider. I'm doing the work. I'm doing the $80 an hour thing. And I'm missing the point that I could be doing the $600 an hour thing, getting me and my ass closer to that $8 million gap I'm trying to close. Okay. That was pretty winded. But how are you thinking about that in the strategic initiatives of your business and making sure you're spending your time and energy on the highest Roy things inside your company? How are you combating that mind battle, if you will, of the now versus where I'm going?

54:54 Yeah, it's really hard. It's the hardest thing, I think. For me, one of the things I started doing was listening to customers more, just versus running our race and onboarding a customer is not listening to them. That's the beginning. Listening is calling the customer that you've had for a year or two years or people that you've worked with and talking to them. you know, are talking to partners and just carving out time in my day to say, I'm just going to listen. Like, I don't even necessarily have an agenda. I'm not showing them a new product. Like what's going on? What's keeping you up at night? Like just being curious, like taking, carving out intentional time to ask. I think the other thing I've done is, you know, I'm a younger, like this first tech company that I've. founded, you know, I'm younger in general and like, I don't know what I don't know. Right. And we're all like faking it till we make it, you know, to some extent.

55:37 And so for me, it's been getting people around me that have ran these races before. Like we're, I'm currently working with like a consultant, you know, I guess, who has been a part of many scale ups. He's working with me. Like we meet every Friday just to do three year strategy planning. I mean, like, two executive coaching groups, right? Where it's just like, just peer groups. I was with them yesterday. We did like a lake house retreat with like eight other leaders, you know, these companies. And it's still hard for me to take time to do that because I feel like I should be working in my business. Yeah. Every day I've learned that those relationships and just even being able to call those people and just the questions they'll ask, it just gets you thinking about like, what are we actually doing? Where are we going? you know, and for me, like, I don't know if anybody else can relate to this, but like, a big question has been like, I want to hit this number this year.

56:24 And in three years, I want to hit this number. And just people asking me the question of like, why? Like, what are you trying to do beyond just the number? Like, you can get to the number, that's fine. But like, what are you really passionate about doing with this business? And for me, like, my dad ran a small business. I love small business owners. Like, I have a heart for that. Like, I want to help companies succeed. And if you ask that, it's like, man, I didn't figure out like, I need to listen to them. Like we need to add value to them. You know, it's not about reviews. You know, it's about how do we help drive value? Because that's what actually drives me. And if we do those things, we're still going to have numbers. We're going to chase those. But just bringing people around me, I think is helping really broaden my lens and just have clarity into like, where are we going?

57:04 And the other thing I see a lot too is like, I think one of the things I'm learning is just like run your own race. You know, like you don't have to run other people's race, right? Like you don't have to. try to get acquired in three years, you know, because you're a tech company, just because other people did that, you don't have to get funding, you can do your own thing, right? Like, if you want to run this for the long haul, you know, you can do that, like, just whatever that is for you, just run your own race. And it's like any of us in life, right? If you're on Instagram, or you know, whatever, like, you're just looking at the other person and trying to put yourself in their lane, right in their shoes. And it's like, it's your race, like, what do you want to do with it and get around people can help you think through that. And then, I think those priorities become clearer. It's not perfect, but it becomes clearer the more you just kind of talk it out and build relationships with people that can just pour into you.

57:50 I dig that. I think that's fair. I think that's a reasonable approach. You know, I think sometimes we hear stuff like that and it's like, As of tomorrow, I'm going to be the most strategic decision maker ever. And I'm always going to be working on my business. I just find right now, like, you know what, I'm happy that I can monitor and track. I get 15 hours a week to work on my business right now. And I can commit to that and I protect that 15 hours. Well, that was a lot more than four months ago when I wasn't measuring what I expect and expecting what I measure. So like that 15 hours is the most productive I've ever been in terms of strategically thinking and planning the organization. That's a great start, right? So I think just making the bar realistic for us to take some of the initial steps into that, surrounding yourself with the right people.

58:33 I think coaching and consulting, we have one. I don't know if our listeners know that, but we practice what we preach. We've hired a consultant that's in our corner and it changes our business. It gives us a leg up. But anyways, thanks for going there with me. I think it's a very interesting topic right now. If I can add one final thing, I think just if you're carving out that time, make sure your team knows why you're doing that. You know, like I went to a lake house yesterday for six hours. Right. The rest of my team's working. You know, I'm sitting in a lake house. So these guys or every month, like every Thursday, pretty much every Thursday, like I'm at one of these things. Right. It's like Thursday morning. I'm doing that. So, you know, like why is it must be nice for him. He's just like out talking to people, you know, we're just in these things.

59:14 But if you actually say, hey, the business, the problem with it is me, right? It's like the John Maxwell law of the lid. Like I'm the lid on the business and I can't create opportunities for you. I can't make this business better. I can't provide more income opportunity for all of you unless I grow. Like I'm the problem. So I'm trying to work on me. Right. And like, I need you to give me the space to be able to do that because it's really investment in you and me and the business and where we're going. And I felt like we've done that well. Like when I joined these two things and, you know, it was a big time commitment. Like it's a, it's a lot of time compared to what I was in the business, but I feel like we did a good job telling the team, like, this is why. we're doing this and this is why I'm here. And then they'll rally around it. Like they want those things, but I think just doing it, just being gone, you know, or doing other things like don't assume they're going to get it unless you tell them.

1:00:01 I think that's massive. That was a good bow on that. I think that's a huge element. That transparency for sure. Yeah. I kind of feel like I've been keeping you in the corner. Do you, do you have some thought that's like trying to break out? I feel like I got a little too nerded out on the whole customer experience thing. But I am curious. I mean, it's just where my head's been at in the business lately is really as companies, how do we come to terms with what's real? How do we better understand the actual customer experience we're providing in our clients? Because I think there's this concept that we've been teaching our clients for a while and we've written about and talked about in the podcast of micro disappointments. The reality is you guys report to convert 20% to 25% of requested reviews into actual reviews.

1:00:46 Is that still pretty much the metric, which is much higher than the rest of the other platforms, right? Which means that 75% plus of clients don't provide a review, which means... We don't necessarily know what those other 75% of clients felt or experienced with our team. And so I think there's an opportunity for all of us to get better at sussing out what is going on for our client in the midst of the service delivery. And so just kind of pointing back to something you mentioned there, that that's an aspect of your platform that you guys have recently developed. So is that in place or is that something you guys are beta testing? What does that look like? It's in place. I think the catch is like, in order to do it well, it has to be automated, right?

1:01:28 So like, I think investing, like as a restoration company, like make sure wherever you're investing in your technology, that it's in things that can talk to each other, you know, our stuff or other stuff, like the more you can connect to open API platforms, like you're going to get more value out of that. We talked about HVAC, right? Like they're there. you know, their platforms like they're there and now they're able to talk to each other. And so I think where this is going from an evolution of reputation, right, which is the lane we live in, is like there's been this huge focus on Google reviews that will continue. That's a marketing thing that's just kind of baked in. You got to do that. But now your reputation and your reputation provider that you work with, it's going to be setting up other automated touch points with your customer that can check in at various parts in a job or with jobs that you didn't win.

1:02:12 Asking why didn't we win? Just getting more insight and having that data come back to you. Typically, it's a survey or it could be a tech survey or whatever. But we execute those now with customers and figure out where are those touch points in your journey? Where's the points of tension and friction? and collecting that feedback so that you can actualize it. And I would say, Chris, to your point, even those 25% that leave a review, maybe they're happy with how that job ended, but maybe there was like three times during that job that it wasn't great. And that's actually happened on half your jobs. And you don't really know. because you're not in the field, right? And like, but if you could just get a touch point on like, hey, this part in the process, they just don't know what's going on, right? We go too long without communicating with them or whatever, you know, it is, like you can start to close those gaps in your business and also figure out where the real highlights are, right?

1:02:57 Like when is it that people just love you, right? Like for us, it's like 30 days in, And they got more reviews they've ever gotten their whole life in like the last 30 days. And they're just like, man, I love this company, right? Like, this is great. Like, where are those points? You know, is it the people on your team? Like, help you figure out who on your team, you know, is the people that you really need to invest in that you want on your team. So I think for us, the technology is there. Like, it's not hard to execute that. But I think we've got a pretty good lens on with restoration. We still have some pretty entrenched larger companies. Like, we figured out the process and it's messy. You know, it's more complicated, right? How to... both extract five-star reviews, but also get touch points at those different steps in the journey and help companies really gain the insight they need to make their business better.

1:03:38 Because to bring it back to the beginning of the conversation, and I think for restoration companies, if you want to look forward five years to what HVAC companies are doing, They are selling on the fact that they provide amazing customer experience and that you will just love every part of the experience. I don't know that every restoration company currently has that dialed in or feels like that's part of their value problem. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that culture is emerging. I think because the industry is becoming more competitive. And again, just maybe a few steps behind HVAC and so forth. But I think that automation piece is actually really important. It's funny. I think some of us now with us seeing and reading chat GPT content all over the place, like there's a little bit of an angst maybe when it comes to automated things, they seem fake or whatever.

1:04:22 But I think in this context, automation is really useful. for gathering those touch points from clients. Because again, there's a general tendency, I think in almost all of us, we don't want to be the whiner. And so unless something is just egregious, our inclination is when Sally or Johnny calls from the service business that we're working with, Hey, how's it going today, Mr. and Mrs. Jones? Our default behavior is, Oh, it's good. It's all good. Even though there may be these little quibbles or irritations or Micro-disappointments, as we call them. And the problem is, of course, those stack up. And then by the end of that three-week service that we got or three-month service, depending on what you're doing, all those little micro-disappointments have turned into a cloud of disappointment, right?

1:05:06 And so this idea of pinging somebody with a text message of, hey... how are things going today? Any questions, concerns, or frustrations? And I think it's even better almost if it's perceived as a bot because then they aren't complaining to a person and they may be more likely to actually give some real feedback. I think about, I'm sure people have seen this in airports. and other public restrooms and stuff. This was a trend that started a few years ago where there's these three buttons, red, green, yellow, and it's a smiley face, like a- Kind of neutral. A flat face, right? And then an unhappy face. Have you seen these in airports and things? Yeah, it basically is asking you to judge what your experience was in the bathroom. And it doesn't even qualify how clean it was or whatever, but just what do you think of our bathrooms essentially?

1:05:49 Happy, neutral, sad. And I've done it. And usually I do it when the bathroom is terrible. I'll be like, hit the sad face, you know? But I don't have that hold back that if there was like a steward standing outside, I might be less inclined to whine because of other people who hear me bitch about it. And then I just feel like that guy. You know what I mean? So anyways... Yeah, I think the challenge digitally, though, is that there is a real like survey fatigue, right? Where like you get asked about your experience everywhere. You know, like you go on a flight, you get four things from them, you know, automated. So it's like attention of that versus like, I think our approach is more like come at it from the business owner and have advanced logic. Like, why don't companies when you get a five star review, like we can do this now through our platform.

1:06:33 When you get a five star review, trigger a text or an email to that customer and, And just say, thanks for that review. Like we can link it to the job and then say, is there anything we could have done better? Like, you know, I appreciate you leaving that review, but is there anything we could have done better? Like just ask that question, right? You know, those other things, it could be in the beginning or at the end, obviously with the one star, you're like, okay, we got to figure out what went wrong. But what about that? Like, can you learn little insights? You know, and we're pulling all that data into our platform, obviously for the companies, but even at a macro level to see trends and data on, hey, here's the things that aren't going well, but also here's the things that are going well, you know, right? Like the things our team's really great at, you know, people talk about our people all the time. Maybe we should market that, right?

1:07:14 Like we have great people or whatever it is. Yeah. You know, I think one of the things that's always kind of struck me as a way to define you, Zach, just in our limited exposure to you is there is an element of consistency and a conviction for outcome. So like being less worried about like how we got there and really being keyed in on, again, it's data, right? Like we're able to measure something and we're using that measurement to make a decision or change behavior. Yeah. And I think when we're talking about some of these automations and whether or not we do something like hire a partner like Liftify or something like that, we can get kind of caught up in maybe a decision that's more about like short term perspective, or maybe it's a little more ego driven, or it's a we should be able to do this on our own or whatever the things are.

1:07:57 I think the encouragement I would have for listeners as part of this show is just let's get really convicted on building behaviors and making decisions around the outcome. Meaning, what will it take to get the thing that makes your team better, more consistent, provide a better customer experience, and just hold on to the how with loose hands? Because if hiring some automation kind of strokes your ego a little bit, there's a little bit of conflict that our team should be able to be whatever motivated to do XYZ, you know what, man? Don't spend a lot of time and energy in that hole. Like outcome is what you're seeking. What are the options that will give you the most consistent outcome and bank on that? Because in return, it's going to pay you back.

1:08:39 Like there's going to be a net gain on that. And I think some of these solutions and partners, strategic partnerships, that's what it boils down to. Like, will it give you the outcome you're looking for? Then just do it. Invest the time and energy. It's worth it. Right? I don't know. That's how I see it. And with that said, I think we got to land the plane. We got a hard stop. And I imagine you got things tugging at your sleeve too. This is fun, man. This obviously won't be the last time we have you on. It's really fun to watch your heroic journey. Yeah, man. As you grow the company, it's really inspiring to us as we grow Floodlight. And I'm sure the listeners too, it's really fun for them. Many of whom are customers for yours. And to hear a little bit of the behind the scenes. So thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate you having us. I think, Brandon, just to land it on my side, I think I would just like, one of the things I'm learning is just be comfortable with the change, right?

1:09:24 Like there's no sacred cows. Like I tell our team that all the time. Like our business has changed, external markets, internal markets, what we're solving for. Your guys' business has changed, you know, since we met years ago. And like, that's okay. right? Make that fun. Don't make that a stressor. Like it's a game at the end of the day. Like I am telling myself that, right? Like it's at the end of the day, like this isn't life or death, right? Like this is a game, like make it fun. You know, like we get to do this. We don't have to do this. Like we get to build this. And I think just like telling yourself that it kind of changes your lens, right? It's like, Hey, what plays do we need to run? How do we need to adjust the strategy to win the game? I love that, dude. That's good. That's an excellent place to land the plan. All right, everybody. Thanks for hanging out with us, Zach. Thanks. Of course, Absolutely.

1:10:06 Thanks, guys. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.