Ep 40 - Jeremy Reets

0:00 Christopher Nordyke. Yeah. You know, there's like only a handful of people that have called me Christopher. You know what's sad, dude? We're turning into like old dad jokes because I swear to God, I've made that same dumb joke. I don't even know. We might have actual percentage of episodes. We're turning into... Yeah, we're becoming nerdier as we get older. Yeah. Josh Carroll, if you're listening to this, I noticed that you greeted me in an email calling me Christopher. You're in a small group of people that do that. That's crossed the line. That's right. Now it's you, Brandon, and my mom, basically. Okay, so we got... Enough of that. We got a great show today. Our guest is really an icon in the industry.

0:40 I mean, he wouldn't call himself that. But if you haven't yet... heard, seen, or experienced Jeremy Reitz and the companies that he's built. You're probably definitely in a minority, but it doesn't make you weird because Brandon and I just met him for the first time personally yesterday. But you're going to really get a chance to understand some of the drivers behind his success. It's pretty obvious. Yeah. As we get into this, hearing the way that he talks about himself, about his parents, about his people, the way he thinks about his business. I mean, there's just some really good gold nuggets here that I think any operator of a business any size can really emulate.

1:21 Super relevant. Totally. Very current. Yeah. For sure. Just an easy guy to respect when you hear him. And a lot of you have probably already seen him in other shows. Yeah. And he was really gracious with his time and allowed us to kind of go, I think, in some areas and some directions that he probably doesn't go often. Just a really stand-up guy, man. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, it's a good show. Yeah. All right. Hang on. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead.

2:04 What'd you think? I don't know. It's kind of serious. Should we laugh? Hey, Jeremy, welcome to the show, man. We are super excited to get you on. We've been chasing you down for a while because you're clearly a busy man. So thanks again for jumping on with us, dude. Well, first of all, thank you for your persistence. I think that was my first email back to you was thank you for your persistence. Once I saw what you guys were doing, I wanted to be a part of it. And so I'll start with thank you for the message you're bringing. I appreciate it. I can explain later, but I really appreciate what you guys are doing. Cool, man. That's exciting for us to hear it.

2:45 Alright. So there's probably, I don't know, maybe one or two people that may not know the name REITs yet. And so I thought just a good foundation is give us the journey to date and what REITs Academy is right now. The thing that you've built over the last decade plus. And then I think from there, we're going to have some opportunities to explore some niche parts of the conversation. Yeah, I'll be glad to. Hey, I'm really happy for what we've got because today we're the leading water damage restoration training academy in the industry. But it was a long journey to get there. So I don't know how much of that journey you want to hear, but it all started with me cleaning toilets, doing janitorial work.

3:29 So, I mean, it's humble beginnings. Really? Those are the best beginnings though. I think that's part of the excitement that we get out of even doing this show is learning people's stories before it was the success part. Because I think so many of us, especially as younger guys starting companies or starting businesses, it's like... We have dreams and aspirations. We see where we want to end up. But holy cow, a year in, and that journey all of a sudden gets very real for us or 2-3 years in. And so I think starting with the cleaning toilets is great for people to be relatable to what you've built. So yeah, go from there. What have you done? It's been quite a journey so far. Yeah. A lot of toilets, a lot of toilets.

4:12 No, I mean, it was really good for me, though, because a couple of things that humbled me. And I was 13 when I got started. So it was a unique experience to be able to work on a regular basis. I learned how to work. So that was probably one of the best things that I needed to learn. And it's a skill that stayed with me. Throughout my life. But then in 1988, December 24th, 1988, I remember the date I did my first water damage and a duplex that had flooded two stories. It was awesome. And it was part of a freeze event. And so that's why I got called in because we had more work than our team could handle. So that was my start. Then I worked in the family restoration business, which my folks started in 1970.

4:56 I worked in that business full-time from 1990 to 2002 on the truck. And then in 2002, I took over the operation of our family business. And I ran that until 2014 when I started handing the reins to my youngest brother. 2016, we bought the company from my folks. And so we're still running that restoration company today. Somewhere in the mix of all that stuff, 2005, we opened Restrying Academy. And today, that's my primary work effort right now. What spurred that on? I mean, and the reason I think I asked that question is, man, the competitiveness...

5:37 in our industry, this draw to silo in and not share experience. You designed something to literally equip other people's teams. What in the heck made you do that? That's a hard connection for me to make. I guess, I mean, I've been doing this a long time and I'm also, my brain's running all the time, probably like you guys. And I needed something to keep me from burning out, right? I needed to keep myself engaged in a lot of different things. Was it the right choice? I don't know how it got to that point, but I will say, I don't know. How long have you guys been in the industry? When did you guys get in to restoration? I'm approaching 12 years now.

6:17 Yeah. So 210, yeah. 9, 10 years. Okay, so back in 2000, if you look at the history of the restoration industry, there really weren't any restoration companies. And I say restoration, dedicated restoration companies before, say, 95. I mean, that's just, we're just going to grab a point in time. Prior to that, it was people also did water restoration. Yeah. So, we're a relatively new industry. And in 2000, there was a lot of research being done. The standards were being set for our industry. And probably the 1999 S500 was a big advancement in our industry because it captured a lot of standards, some right, some wrong, but it was the state of the art at the time and put it down.

7:03 But there were a number of industry leaders that were attempting to help set those standards. And I like science. I've always been a good student and I had an interest in it. So I thought, well, heck, if anybody can do it, why can't I try? And so we started developing new things and out of that came, yes, some equipment. We developed the test and e-test system. But really, that was a result of understanding vapor pressure differentials and the importance they play in the drying industry. technically, right? And then also how to appropriately utilize heat and energy in the drying effort. And so, it was out of those things that a number of developments that we use today, like direct heat application, containing directly to surfaces, vapor pressure differentials.

7:52 Anybody goes to class now, you're going to hear about vapor pressure differentials. All those things I introduced to the industry. Now, I didn't invent vapor pressure differentials. That's hundreds of years old, it was just brand new to the drying industry. We didn't understand how it applied to what we were doing. I think that's one of the things that strikes me is, and we've been learning this over the years, Chris and I were, I think, mentioned to you before on a call, we were first introduced to REITs TV, I think is what it was called at the time. And that was probably at least eight or nine years ago, I think now, maybe somewhere in that range. I don't think everyone that has been exposed to REITs TV understands the actual background that was already built before you even engaged in that project.

8:35 You're very humble about it, the things that you've experienced and brought, I think, to the industry. So like that, you said, basically, that was just something you were doing because it kept you motivated. It kept you pushing towards a new horizon or a new objective. What about that equipping competitor piece? Did that ever even come up on your radar? Or are you more of an abundance guy? It didn't really matter? You hit it right on the head. I'm an abundance guy. Look, there is today, there is way more work than we can handle. If you don't have enough work, it's not because it doesn't exist. It's just you're doing it wrong. There's more than we can handle. So, you know, that's kind of touching on why I like what the message you guys are bringing to the table, because it's something I've thought for a long time and I really feel confident in.

9:25 There's an abundance of work out there. So what we really need is to have a better educated public or wherever our business is coming from. And the more of us that are working in that field correctly, the better we all do. And I know a lot of people don't think the same way and teach their own, but that's the way I operate. Yeah, I love that. Can I go back to your origin story a little bit? Because I'm fascinated by it, to be honest, on a few different levels. The toilet part? Yeah. Mainly the toilet part. Maybe not that far back. Oh man, I cleaned a fair share of my toilets too back in the day. But no, I mean, I think I'm curious about your relationship with your parents. Because Brandon and I, we work with a lot of clients.

10:06 And obviously, all of us know a lot of colleagues. Family-owned restoration companies, but there's a lot more companies that fail to transition to the next generation for a variety of reasons. And so I'm always... When I encounter a healthy family business, like a generational business, it's like, there's probably a lot of owners right now that have children in the business or not that dream of someday being... For this to be a perpetual family generational thing. And it's really hard to get there. And obviously, you guys were able to do that. I'm just curious, what was the influence that your parents had on where you are today? What were some of the values or things that you learned from them?

10:50 How did you guys operate that family business in a way that you've got this healthy, sustainable model in place? That's a big question. But I'm just curious about what did your parents do to set you up in your mind for where you're at today? I appreciate that question. You know, I've done a lot of interviews and no one has ever asked that question. Yeah. So kudos. Great question. I think it's something that our business relationship reflects our personal relationship. So if you get along well with your parents and you respect them, you'll probably do well in a business relationship as well. If you don't believe your folks know anything or, you know, hey, parents can be, I'm a parent.

11:32 We can be very competitive and even, I don't know, I won't say demeaning, but you can have your kids believe that they don't know what they're talking about as well. And there's a lack of respect there. So I guess my dad always respected my input and it was always super nice about things. We never argue, never argue. We disagree sometimes, obviously, but we don't argue. So the same is true with my brothers. I work with my brothers today, the three of us and my sister. She's not as active in the business, but we all work together every day. And do we disagree?

12:13 Yeah. But we have a respect for one another. And frankly, I think the other thing is money is just not that important. I feel there's an abundance of money to be had out there. And we'll do a lot better if we work together, whether it be your idea, my idea, it doesn't really matter. We're going to do a lot better if we work together than if we're fighting, trying to figure out who's right and who's wrong. And, you know, I got to give credit to my folks because some of the crazy stuff I was thinking was probably, they just kind of let me run with stuff. If I wanted to try something in the company, that'd be it. Give it a shot. I mean, I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm glad that he did because I learned by trial on his dime some of the things that now it's like, oh, yeah, he was right and I was wrong.

12:56 And I think that takes respect and humility to be able to let your kids do that. Oh, man, for sure. Can you differentiate, though, in your mind between arguing and disagreeing? How did it look like for you guys to disagree in a productive way without arguing? Well, I may say, you know, suggest we really need to go this direction with employees or with some line of the business. And dad would feel strongly in a different way. We're both very opinionated people. And yet, give it a shot if you really want to, because there's a challenge behind that, too. I'm going to stake my reputation on my idea. And so I didn't want to be wrong either. So if he would give me some good reasoning, I trusted his judgment because he was always very successful, still is.

13:43 And if he was saying, that's not a good idea and here's why, I'm going to go back to the drawing board and try again. But at the same time, if it didn't matter, it's like, yeah, do whatever you want to do. If that's the way you want to go about it, and I try to run the business the same way today, I hate micromanaging. And some people say, oh, well, that's like you're letting the thing run wild. No, I'm results oriented. Dad was results oriented. You want to go that way? I don't think it's a good idea. But as long as you get to the end goal, give it a shot. And you learn a lot that way. And so I think that was really helpful. The same thing I'm working with my brothers. I was in the business working every day. They were, I have one brother 13 years younger than me.

14:25 My other brother had moved away and wasn't working in the business. So when they came back to work in the business, I had the experience and they didn't. So they would want to go down a path that it's like, we've already done that. So, you know, and following with what I've been taught is like, for example, my brother wanted to go chase some storms. And I'm like, well, you've got these issues to consider and you're not prepared for that. Do you want to do that? I'd like to give it a shot. Go ahead. That's fine. It's not going to, you know, we got the money. We'll spend this much money and you can go after it. He did it and decided he didn't want to do that again. So it was more effective than me saying, no, we're never going to do that because in his mind, he's still going to go. We should have done it. I know we could have done it. Right.

15:05 And so, you know, I think just respecting and one another and letting us pursue our interest has been really beneficial. I love that. Now being a results-oriented guy though, how did your dad respond when you guys go try that thing? It failed, maybe even lost the company money or those kinds of situations. What does accountability look like in a family business? Yeah, that's a good question. He was not really tough on me. I will say that I was more difficult. I was tougher on myself than he was. And I think you recognize that. So it's like, you know, we acknowledge our failure on a point and move on. But we had a lot of successes that way, too.

15:47 And he recognized that. And the other thing was, and this is the way I work today, too. If you want to control something, then guess what? You own it. You have to control every step of the way. Well, as you're trying to delegate, you've got to truly delegate authority. You can't tell an employee, I want you to produce this end result. And then as they start, go, no, I don't want you to do it that way. Well, you didn't give me that information at the beginning. It's demoralizing. Because now, guess what? I'm going to come to you every step of the way and ask you every step of the process and get approval at every point. And you've done nothing. It's about leveraging yourself. You can only accomplish so much.

16:28 And if you want to bring in employees and have them really succeed, give them something, let them build it. Give them an opportunity, but an opportunity that they are capable of succeeding in and advise them, coach them, but let them fail. If you're not willing to let somebody fail, even though they've tried their best, you're not going to do well with delegating and you're going to be handling everything. everybody's going to come to you for every question because they know if it's not done your way, you're going to be mad. You can't live like that. I really dig where you're going right now. I want to hang here for just a minute. One of the first thoughts that I had is like two things that I want you to weigh in on. One is there's this major fear factor that people spin out on.

17:10 What's the worst case scenario? And they literally are so good at determining what the worst case scenario is. It makes them pause on actually following through on the kind of activity that you're talking about. So I want you to weigh in on that. I think the other thing too, I'd like to hear your perspective on is, how do we create a message that dials in on something that you said about you was, you had this own internal self-drive of accountability? There was clearly something in you that's hard on yourself that was willing to look at yourself critically and say, I can do better. I can improve. I can do these things. And your dad saw that. And because of that, there's some trust that's built in. Hey, this person's got this internal motivation to be this way.

17:53 So my question, I think, for you on that is, is that something that you feel like as a leader, you can actually grow in your team members? Or is it like you've got to hire for that right out of the gate? So those are kind of like two places I'd like you to hang with if you're willing to do it. Yeah. And I'll try to answer that question. I think I understand what you're... And if I'm missing the point, then redirect me. But we've always hired for who a person is, not what they know. And there are exceptions to that. But I can teach you how to do a lot of things with regard to water damage. But I can't teach you how to be a good person. I can't teach you how to be motivated. I can't teach you how to be happy. I can't teach you to come to work with a good attitude every day.

18:35 If you don't already have those things, I'm wasting my time trying to teach you how to do another process. So I think building on a foundation of people that already have those core attributes that you value in a team, the ability to work with others, the ability to be kind every day, to be supportive of the people that are around you, if you have that and you live that way as well... People appreciate that and they're naturally inclined to stay with that. But you got to get the right people on board to begin with. Because the other problem is you can have this great group of people. It only takes one person who's grumpy or not a team player or negative or whatever.

19:15 And it just the whole crew goes down with it. So as a leader, I think it's your responsibility to bring on the right type of people and It's no different than coaching a team. I don't know. You guys probably like sports. Everybody likes some sport or another. And you watch an organization put together a team and you can have one person on the team that just creates havoc all the time. They may be great at what they do, but they don't bring value to the team. On the other hand, you can have one person that is like the catalyst for the rest of the team. Everybody is attracted to and they can really push that thing forward. At the same time, the coach, which you as a leader are kind of like the coach, right? You don't get out on the field and make the passes.

19:57 You've got to give that ability to those team members. Give them a clear vision. You're going to call a lot of the plays. But at the end of the day, you got to have the trust in your team members to execute on the field without you running out in the middle of the field going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's... That would be, that's ridiculous, right? We wouldn't expect that during the middle of a game. Coach doesn't get on the field. Coach is off the field. He's prepared everyone and he gets out of the way and lets them play the game. And you got to do that as a business owner. Also, you can't run out in the middle of the field and pass the ball. You're the coach. Stop it. Yeah. I love that. So that fear factor piece, is some of this just almost like...

20:38 I don't want to call it a character flaw. That's not appropriate. But just a natural bend or a natural wiring for some people that fear piece to let go. I think we call it control. It surfaces and all these different things. But From your perspective, differentiate between what you do by default, your natural wiring versus a lot of leaders that you see. I mean, you make contact with hundreds of restoration companies throughout the year. What are you seeing with that element? Well, I think you got to recognize you're just not that smart. You know, I mean, I think in our minds, sometimes we think, oh, I'm the only one who can do this. No, you're not. You really aren't. And at the same time, laugh with them when they fail. I mean, that's happened sometimes.

21:19 You failed a lot of times, right? Right. You take off and you fail all the time. So you're going to be mad when one of your team members, you've given them an opportunity, they take off and it fails. Well, it happens. If they took off too big a chunk, you know, if they hurt the company badly, that's your fault. Because it's not like you just walk away, but you still have to be somewhat hands up. Let them build it. For example, we set goals and we talk about here are all the opportunities that you have to get to your goal. However, we need to see this is what you used last year. And here's the amount of growth that you need to generate this year. How are you going to do it? Come back to me. You know your job. I want you to come up with a way to make this happen.

22:02 then I set tiered goals. So there's a minimum requirement. You got to hit this. That's what I'm paying you for. But if you can get to this level or this level or this level, and through the years, I've developed a three-tier incentive system because I don't want an incentive that's so far out there you can't get to it. And I don't want an incentive that's so easy to get, you don't have to work for it. I want you to be able to work through that and then let them get excited about it. Let them build. If they don't make one of those tiers, you know what? I'm there to help. I'm there to coach. I'm there to come up with some new ideas. We all need that. But when they know they can build this, they get excited about it. You know, it's what they're developing.

22:42 We all want to create. We all want to build something. Give your people that opportunity. Because if I thought, oh, I'm the only one that could do this. I'm the only one that could teach classes. I'm the only one that can sell. I'm the only one that can be the face of the company. Then that would be very detrimental. I would be the one damaging the company, not the one. them. And the same is true of any role that you've got. You only have so much to give. We're all gifted with the same amount of time. The most successful people understand how to leverage themselves. Less input, more work being done. And that requires a team that is aligned with you and aligned with the goals that we're getting.

23:22 And you know what? Sometimes that includes failure. That's okay. Failure should be okay. If it's not, then you're never going to succeed. I'm telling you, it won't work. You got to be able to fail and be okay with that. Amen to that. I think we do often just kind of overstate what the worst case scenario is going to be if somebody goes out and they drop the ball in the way that we anticipated they would communicate or... We give them some decision authority and they make it wrong and that particular project loses some profit or whatever the case may be. I think we do. We just go to the nth degree instead of reeling that back and saying, okay, honestly, what could happen? And so I really appreciate the boldness that you have with that.

24:03 I don't want to go into too much detail about your business or the things that you've built. But my understanding based on meeting you and having some conversations with you is that you've built multiple businesses that are very healthy, whether you show up tomorrow or not. And I think that that is something that creates a real valuable lifestyle that you've developed for yourself. And so I think if anything, I just want people to hear like, that's not just someone that's good at it saying you should be good at it. It's someone saying, I've done it this way. It's created an extraordinary experience for me. And the other business owners have the opportunity to do that if they can learn that skill set, that ability to delegate appropriately like that and create engagement and buy-in.

24:47 So I just really appreciate the way that you've led those businesses that way. Yeah. And to just put a period on the end of the sentence, I think that money is not the only measurement of that success. Right. And not to get too philosophical, but if you look at your life and you go, I'm working way too much, then you're already failing. Right. Because that's not what you're there for. I mean, yes, money is the score. Right. We get it. We're scoring ourselves that way. At the same time. You could be failing out of your fear of someone else missing a few dollars. You're working yourself into the ground. Guess what? It's I mean, I'm unfortunately learning all too well that, you know, life is too short to blow 10 years doing it the wrong way.

25:27 Make the adjustments. Okay, so sweet segue, because you made a comment to us on the phone yesterday that I want to hear you unpack a little bit. And you said that, I spent the first 40 years doing what I could, and now I'm trying to do more of what I should. And I think that's what you were going to a couple minutes ago. But unpack that for us, man. What does that mean to you? What made you say that? Yeah. What's it mean to you? Well, a lot of different things, but just I had such a desire to prove that I could be successful in so many different areas. And, oh, OK, so we proved we could do a lot of these things. The problem was I started looking at what I was doing. I'm like, I'm doing way too many things here, way too many things.

26:09 And in an effort to prove what I could do, I was failing to excel at what I should do. And because you only have so much time. So when you've got all these different plates spinning, you can't give enough attention to any one of it because your brain just is going in too many different directions. And then your life is nothing but work and, and so forth. But From a work standpoint, what I should be doing while I am at work is making a living. I don't look at work and some people will disagree with me and that's fine. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion. But when I'm at work, I'm there for a purpose. I'm there to make a living, nothing more. Should I enjoy what I'm doing? It sure helps. Do I go to work because I'm trying to make the world a better place?

26:52 I don't want to make a worse place, but I'm here to make a living. So, you know, sometimes the reason why I think that's important to understand is that we can sometimes fool ourselves into thinking I work so much because I'm trying to make everybody's life better. Now, you're working too much. You know, you're doing a lot of stuff because you want to prove you can. I'm not saying about everybody, but when I'm at work, I'm there to make a living. So I need to focus on the best way that I can do that. And, you know, what I did, and this is a very simple way to do it because getting rid of things that you don't need to be doing is very simple. It's not easy, but it's very simple. I looked at all the different responsibilities that I had and I prioritized them.

27:37 And this is not real complicated. You could do it right now. Write down every line of business that you do and write down the one you love the most. Write down the one you love second, third, to the one you hate. And just start knocking off the bottom of the list. Get rid of the stuff you don't like to do. And you think, well, I've got to do it. No. You can stop. You can stop. You absolutely can. You know, what am I going to do with myself? You'll find something to do. I promise you. What I did was I got rid of a lot of the things I didn't like doing and focused in on that time, reinvested that time into the things that were most important. From a work perspective, what's the most profitable? That's all I care about because that's why I work is to make a living.

28:18 So I took the stuff that I made the least money doing and the things that I disliked the most, which actually happened to be the same categories, made the least amount of money doing the things I didn't like doing. Get rid of it. That's an easy discussion. And then refocus that time into the things that made me the most money and the things that I enjoy doing the most. So that's where I'm at today. You know, in our restoration company, we only do water mitigations. We don't do all the other stuff. We don't do reconstruction. We don't do fire. We don't do packouts. We don't do all the stuff that everybody says, oh, you have to do all that stuff. No, you don't. Somebody told you you had to do that, but you don't have to. Our company has proof of that. Now it's not for everybody, but you make your list and you figure out what to get rid of if you're working too much.

29:01 Or just look at the things you're not making much money at. Look at each one of those, like an employer. You got all these part-time jobs You got one part-time job that you hate and pays you the least. Why not get rid of that job and go up to the one that makes you the most money that you really enjoy? It's simple. Not easy, but simple. So you just have to know you can do it. Just stop it. Yeah. I love the just stop it. Yeah. I think there's so much more that needs to be discussed around just learning how to say stop it. Just whatever you're about to say to me. You ever see the old Newhart stop it? No. If you didn't, Google Bob Newhart stop it and watch that.

29:43 And... Did you just date yourself? I just dated myself. That was probably done before I was born, but I've seen it a few times. Yeah, yeah. But I'm telling you, go look at it. And just imagine he's talking to you about the stuff you shouldn't be doing and listen to what he has to say. Okay, we'll throw a YouTube link in the show notes for everybody who's listening. We'll just check that out for sure. That's awesome. That's, you want to know what books I read? It's the Bob Newhart Stop It video. Yeah. That's the recommended reading. Recommended reading. All right, let's take a minute to recognize and thank our Mitresto Mastery sponsor, Accelerate Restoration Software.

30:28 And I'm fully aware by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software, that that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there, right? Because we probably all fall into one of two camps when it comes to software. We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work Or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, you know, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all. But we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it. Yeah, and that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right?

31:10 It's intuitive, and it focuses on the most mission-critical information, i.e., guys, your team will actually use it. Let's talk about sales. After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral partners and clients. And the essential piece there is there's got to be a mobile app experience. the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use. Yeah. Imagine guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor, go check these guys out at xlrestorationsoftware.com forward slash MRM and check out the special offers they're providing to MRM listeners.

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32:42 Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3,700 plus page database of Xactimate templates. I don't know what else to say here other than don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it, bam. database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple points and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world.

33:25 So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash FCG. So I got a more of a, I guess, industry philosophical question for you. What do you feel like have been some of the most major changes and shifts in the industry over the last, let's just call it five years? And a follow up question. What do you think most needs to change about the industry that is yet to really significantly change? So I think probably the biggest change in the water restoration industry, for good and for bad, has been this pressure on pricing, price points.

34:07 And we'll mix in TPAs versus getting your own business from somewhere else and mix all that into a pot. There are some fiercely independent groups out there that have maybe an extreme view of it. But then there's also a very conservative view that says, oh, well, you know, we've got to just stick with the old standards and I've got to do the TPA work. I don't have anything, any choice in that. And I'm not voicing an opinion one way or the other. I'm just saying I think a lot of people have recognized that. It is, look, we've got to make a living doing this work and have pursued finding a more independent approach to it that isn't dependent just on insurance companies.

34:49 Now, I mean, I go back a number of years ago. It's the old go after the insurance agents and adjusters and TPAs, all the works coming in from the insurance companies. That's a strategy, but it also forces you to, you know, you're beholden to that group that's giving you the work, whether it be insurance adjusters, agents, or TPAs. And there's been such a large group that did that in our industry that it's allowed the insurance companies to have an unfair sway to how we do things. Now, I'm not trying to be negative about insurance companies. I don't think that at all. I just think that we can get ourselves into relationships that can be abused if we're not careful.

35:31 So the move towards being more independent, I think, over the last few years has been very good. I don't know if that makes sense. I just think there's a lot more companies that are healthier because of it. Yeah, I agree. That's interesting. I didn't actually anticipate that you would say that because I think we've asked that question with some other folks and a little bit darker spin, if you will. There's kind of like, yeah, things are feeling a little desperate. We really need some significant shifts in these categories. So it's interesting that you've seen that from your perspective and the level of exposure that you have, that that is a positive turn that is beginning to take hold Because it does feel a little mixed bag, like depending on people's perspective. But I agree with you. I think that's solid.

36:12 But if you go back and look at the history of how we got to where we're at today, back in the early 90s, when we completed a water project, we had a NEBS form we filled out. We took it to the agent, not the adjuster, took it to the agent, handed it to him, and he or she wrote us a check. That was it. And then as we started getting into Xactimate and working more with adjusters and so forth, adjusters, oh, just send me the bill. We'll take a look at it. Oh, you're working with Xactimate. Great. I work with that too. Then we can communicate. But what happened was we became so in tune to working with the insurance companies that, you know, that's the direction that went, you know? And so now we're seeing, you know what, the industry is maturing and there is a necessary amount of separation that needs to be there.

36:58 And I think it's a good thing. I think that we have a very healthy industry today. I think there's some problems, but all industries have issues, but I think that's a very positive development. Do you think that there's any correlation with our client's level of independence when it comes to gathering information and finding answers? Do you think that that's part of what may be leading to this ability for more of us to be independent and more direct into the end user relationship compared to maybe scenarios in the past? I think that, hey, just my opinion, but I don't think people educate themselves very much before they hire a water mitigation contractor. They just do it. But I think that people are, and the internet has pushed this, they want to make the decisions themselves.

37:44 There are some people that are like, I pay insurance and you just send somebody out here and I'll use them because they feel like now I have this leverage point to go back to. Hmm. But there's a very large, and I think as we move forward, future generations are going to be the same way. I want to make the choice. I want to pick the person I want. And I'll deal with the consequences. And I also know how to get my way if I need it. I just feel that's the direction people are going. As opposed to, I don't want to upset the insurance company. There aren't people like that. But most people are like, I'm picking my own person. Y'all can pay it. And so our experience is that we don't do any insurance sourced business at all and haven't for many years.

38:27 And there's way more work than out there if we want it. I love that. That should serve as a huge encouragement, I think, to people right now in regards to developing your own your own line of business that way. I think that's awesome. I think it could be argued that you have worked directly and indirectly with more technicians maybe than any other figure in the restoration industry over the last 15-20 years, right? Never thought of it that way. Yeah, right? I mean, you have talked to and worked directly and coached technicians probably more than anybody else. So... Yesterday, we talked on the phone and we just talked about the culture inside our businesses. We occupy this niche of the construction home services industry.

39:10 And there's always been this rough and tumble, make it happen, pull it up by the bootstraps, grab a Red Bull and go, cigarettes and Red Bull for breakfast. and pulling all-nighters and then showing up and pulling a shift the next day. And just like there's this machismo. It's an unhealthy lifestyle. And we see the costs of it. I mean, the divorce rate, I haven't seen statistics, but I imagine it's probably higher than some other industries. We see a lot of drug abuse and alcoholism in our teams. And as somebody who's worked and spent so much time with technicians, how do we change that and create a more sustainable culture?

39:51 It's hard enough to find great people. And this is an industry that can really burn people out over time. What's your vision of the future in terms of how we're equipping our technicians and the culture and environment that we're creating for our technicians? Again, another question I've never been asked. And so as you were asking that, I was thinking about it. I'm going, you know, there will never be a time when that culture doesn't exist of just get out there and work like an animal. And, you know, if we're turning in 80 hour weeks, awesome. There's a lot of guys that come to class with us and they never go home. They're on the road all the time and they love it. Or they at least say they believe they do.

40:32 And that's fine. But there's also a huge sector of the working public that doesn't want that. And we can create an environment that either attracts people that want to work a lot. And again, not saying that in a negative in any way, or we can attract people who want, it's not that they don't want to work, but they want to maintain a work-life balance, right? And they want a full-time job, but they don't want to work 70 hours every week. Sometimes, but not every week. Yeah. And how we set up our culture or how we live our lives is probably going to reflect the type of people we bring in. So one of the things I mentioned that we have an annual event that is called Next Level and it's coming up in August.

41:15 But one of the points that we're going to address there is a fair and it's entitled creating a fair and effective on-call schedule. Well, how do you do that? Because we can't anticipate emergency work and it's easy to go, there's another job we got to go. Well, at that point, yes, we're reactive. We have to take care of this. But we need to be proactive and create a schedule and create an environment where it's not work everybody into the ground all the time. And so I think it's an environment of our own creating, our own creation. And so I don't want to look at the technicians as being the fault. And I don't look at people who work all the time as being the fault.

41:55 It's just... I remember from a young age, you get into an elevator at a trade event, and one of the questions people have, how many trucks you got? How many of this? How many of that? There's all this pressure to do more, more, more, more, more. And you got to stay away from that. Don't let other people tell you what you want to do. And I think it's true of our employees too. We got to help them to let their business work for them instead of working for their business. Yeah. That balancing act is an interesting one just because I think right now, I feel like the default perspective or maybe the default element to a lot of communication is just this expectation that people want that balance because they're lazy or because they don't know how to work or they don't know how to do things that are hard.

42:44 And I believe that a lot of that is very much the case. I don't want to understate the fact that there is more of that probably currently than we've had in the past. there's still a reality that we just have to make some shifts because the crowd is just different. It's changed. Whether we like it or not is irrelevant. I think you alluded to the fact of doing the things that you really need to do and getting rid of the things that you don't have to. And I think this is one of those shifts that people need to understand. It's not a choice. I think that there's a reality that folks need to understand their audience better and these new profiles of potential candidates and prospects and make shifts in their organization.

43:25 Not compromising values and things like that, but just make some shifts on their expectation. Because it's like, just learn how to play the game with the new rules. It's okay. Don't let your ego stand in the way of being willing to shift. a little bit to meet the new landscape. And so I just, I don't know why that is so difficult for folks, but it does feel like a pretty friction heavy point right now for people to make that shift. Do you have any perspective on that? Well, I guess there's a big difference between, don't confuse laziness with principal, right? So a lazy person doesn't want to work even when they're at work. A principal person is going to give you their best at work, but they don't want to work all the time.

44:08 You work during that work period, but then I need my time for my family or my whatever. And so being able to identify the difference between principled and lazy is important. I don't want lazy people. I hate laziness. It's probably one of the things I... It's on the list for the top things I detest. But being principled is valuable because if someone's principled, then they're going to... That's going to apply in a lot of aspects of their life. They're going to be a good person to keep around. Yeah. So working with someone like that, I think that's going to be advantageous. So I think it does require that. And there's got to be a give and take. Sometimes you got to work. I got to have you. We just don't have a choice. Yeah. At the same time, there's got to be times where I say, I don't got to have you.

44:52 You don't have to work. There's got to be a give and take. Or that person says, I have to have time off. Well, if I was, you know, and again, people will argue with me and say, oh, you can't live like that. But if I can say you have to work now, then I also should be able to say, give people the time off when they say, I have to have this time off. It's got to be a give and take or it's not going to be a long term relationship. I think one of the things that we've seen is just that lack of proactive engagement about filling the bench. And so the pressure, you end up being in that place strategically as a business owner, as a key leader. I don't have that choice. And I'm sure that probably plays into it. They just feel like, well, I don't have enough personnel to cover anyways. And so I don't know. Yeah, we call that desperation brain.

45:33 Yeah. Right. Just plugging holes. Oh gosh, I just got to get somebody. Well, and sometimes the reason why everybody's having to work so hard is because of a failure on your part anyway. The only reason everybody's having to work so many hours is because you're not doing a good job recruiting or bringing new people in. And I hear people say all the time, oh, there's just not, there's nobody out there. That's not true. We have plenty of people working for our restoration company, and I've never put out an advertisement to hire a single person. Never do we advertise and we always have more than we need. Why? Please double click on that. Why? Why do you think? I mean, we heard a similar thing from Watley with his emergency packout company.

46:15 He's like, hey, we don't have a recruiting problem. So what is it for you? Why do you feel like your company has been able to recruit consistently? Well, recruiting is no different than getting work. Why do you have jobs? Why are people hiring you, right? People are hiring you because you have a service that they want. You have marketed, you've designed your service in such a way that people want to hire you. You need to design your workplace and present it in a way that people want to work there. It's no different. But often, we're excellent at bringing in new projects, but we are terrible at marketing our workplace as being a place that people want to work. It's not designed to be enjoyable.

46:57 It's designed to get a job done. And there has to be an aspect to that. Right. If you can create a workplace where people want to work, you don't have a problem finding people. And so what we do is, and we've done this for decades, we hire from what I call in-network. So it means that somebody in our organization knows this person and has brought them to the table. The only reason your employees are going to bring new employees to the table is if they enjoy working where they work. Because they're out going, hey, man, your job's terrible. Let me tell you about where I work. It's awesome. That's how you get people in. Putting out an advertisement, I mean, oh, my goodness.

47:39 I can't imagine what you would get from that. But I can't imagine it being really good. The other thing is we only hire people that are already working. So if you're not working, we don't have a job for you. So you have to already be working and you have to know somebody within our organization in order for us to consider you. And that's worked really well. So we will often get people come in and it's like, well, you know what, at this moment, I don't have anything, but we've got you. We really would, you know, if it's somebody we really want, we're going to follow up with them in the future. And so, you know, we probably overstaff a little bit sometimes, but that's okay. And then we just don't have a lot of turnover. When you have a good place to work, you don't have the turnover.

48:20 You don't have those problems either. So think about marketing your workplace, not just your service offerings. Huge. Oh, that's great. Okay. So I think I've got a way to land the plane, so to speak. So gosh, 10 weeks ago, Brandon and I interviewed an author. His name is Clint Pulver. And his thing was he spent 5 years interviewing 10,000 employees from around the country and learning why they did or did not like... their experience, that company. So he's like, he's dressed in flip-flops and a hoodie. He's like one of them, you know, and he's going in and interviewing these people. They don't know who he is and he's reporting back this data to leaders. I have kind of a similar question for you. So we just talked about how you might be the most prolific tech trainer in the country, just by the nature of the business you built.

49:09 6-7 years ago, Brandon charged me with building out a commercial floor maintenance division for our company, commercial carpet cleaning for hotels and stuff like that. And I went to a CE class. I went to go get trained at John Don. And I'm sitting there with 15 other floor maintenance technicians. And I'm a biz dev guy, but I'm there just to learn that side of the industry, whatever. And it was really interesting being a senior leader surrounded by technicians and listening to the stories, the attitudes, the narratives about their bosses and their co-workers. That just starts. These CE events and conference people talk shop and whatnot. I imagine you have heard a lot of that over the years. Just the narrative from your prototypical technician employee.

49:54 You've heard those conversations for many years. Educate us owners and operators. What are the technicians talking about? What are they complaining about? What are they wanting from their jobs? Based on the conversations you and your team are hearing constantly at every single one of your classes, you got these 10, 15, 20 texts in front of you. What are the conversations happening? What are they saying about their places of work, their bosses, their supervisors? And what can we learn from it, in your opinion? Yeah, that's a great question. And actually, we started asking that same question too, because we've heard this and we hear positive, we hear negative all the time, right? But what we started in 2022, and now we've got several hundred responses, and we're going to continue to compile it through to August of this year.

50:39 And we're going to present this at our next level event. But we have a two-page... interview of which basically rating the company you work for. It's totally anonymous. And the purpose of that is because we want to be able to go to owners and go, this is what the average, the impression is of people that are working for you when they're asked anonymously how they feel about where they work. You know, are you treated well? Are you given opportunity for growth? And a variety of different questions about how they feel about where they work. And it's interesting, wide range. We have people that love where they work. And we've had people that come in and go, I want to start my own thing. And it's like, well, we can't have that conversation.

51:22 And I've trained all of our trainers, all of our people. We always do the same thing. Somebody comes in complaining about where they work. Well, I have an opinion on that. If you don't like where you're working, what are you telling me for? Take action. What do you think I'm going to do? But we want to spin them back to a positive outlook. I find that people who complain when they come here are just complainers. They complain about everything. Just you got to kind of let that go. And never would we want them give them any kind of fuel to say, yeah, where you're working is not good. Never would we want to do that. It's like, look for the positive, right? Come on, man, make the best out of whatever you got. But, you know, I don't know if I have an exact answer for your question, but I can tell you as an owner, if you have a lot of turnover, it's you.

52:06 It's you. Either you're not hiring properly or you have a place nobody wants to work. Maybe you don't even want to work there. And if you are trying to figure out how to keep more people, keep people longer. It starts with figuring out who you want to hire and not going, oh my God, I got to get somebody in this two weeks. It doesn't matter who, just get them in here. That is like the circular problem. Stop it. And figure out who you want to hire and start looking for. And people say, I don't know where to hire from. Well, look, you're out eating dinner at restaurants, eating lunch, you're shopping in stores. When you see someone that stands out to you, interview them.

52:47 That's the person you want. They're out there. See if you have a better opportunity. If you walked up to somebody and you go, you know what? I just wanted to say, I really appreciate you. You stood out. All these people here, you stood out. amazing. What do you do? How is it you bring such a great attitude to work when a lot of the other people aren't? Tell me about that. And guess what? You're going to have a great conversation with that person. You're asking them why they're doing so well with what they're doing. And then say, you know, I know I'm out of line here, but if ever you think about a change, here's my card. We have an amazing organization and I would love to talk to you further about working with us. That is so much better than putting out an ad and having, you know, one person after another traipse through your door that hates where they work.

53:34 They're probably not going to like what you got either. So it's just you have to think differently. Your most important asset right now in this industry is competent people. And the faster you can find, the better you are at finding the right type of person and then bringing them to a level of competency that they can perform the work that you do. the more successful you're going to be. Because right now, the only thing that's holding us back from getting, well, I mean, maybe you don't understand how to market or something like that. But the only thing that's holding us back from growing our business, if that is your goal, is not having the right people right now. That's what everybody's looking for. So you should be an expert at finding and recruiting good people.

54:19 I love that outbound scenario that you mentioned. For those of you that stuck on this episode and just listened to what Jeremy said, that deserves going back and listening to you again. Because the level of proactive leadership that your example showed is the standard. This is... I don't want to get too preachy here, Jeremy. But it's I think what we often see when we're working with companies is that our executive presence of our business owners or key leaders has just tapped out. And for whatever reason, they've adopted the attitude that because I'm technically competent at water mitigation or disaster restoration, that I am the best I can be.

55:01 And I think what you just expressed in that example is the type of leader it takes to have And you have to prioritize your energy in the kinds of ways that you just described. Swivel, you're head on a swivel. You're looking for more people, no matter what. If you're full today, it doesn't matter. As a key leader, your job should always be looking for that talent. And you're the best person. Just like you said, Hey, you stood out to me. I mean, you blew my mind just now. A kind of proactive leadership tone that you're setting for this person that you haven't even invited to your team... is what starts people down the trajectory of knowing already, okay, the leader of this company, the business owner, stopped me in my tracks and told me that I'm valuable and that I'm capable and that I stand out in a crowd.

55:51 Are you kidding me? Like that person's not going to want to come work for your organization and be a flag bearer and a champion of engagement. Anyway, so I really appreciate that section. And I think for those of you listening, you need to go back and really absorb that and take it to heart. Because that was more than just an example on recruitment. That was an example of really great leadership, period. And it's the kind of leadership that's required for teams to grow and be successful at a level that a lot of us want. Yeah. Well, just a little fun fact. So Jeremy and I wish I had the names at my fingertips here. But Brandon and I, somewhat randomly, we ended up connecting with a couple of your senior leaders at your restoration company.

56:33 I don't know. This was five or six months ago. And we just had a chat via Zoom and it was fun. I think one of them saw a video we put out or something. It was like, hey, let's chat. And we had a really great chat. And I think Brandon and I both came off that. We're like... Wait, that's Jeremy's company. Because you are still a bit of a black box to us. We hadn't connected personally at that point. And we're like, wow, we were really impressed by your guys that were... I think it was the GM and your water mitigation manager. Anyway, we were really impressed. So now... I think from the conversation we've just had for a lot of people listening, including me, it's really plain to see why you've been so successful, man. I mean, the principles and values in the way that you conduct yourself and the types of things you prioritize and focus on.

57:15 It's like there's a lot there that I think we all can emulate. And it was interesting to find out too about your parents. It sounds like that was something that your parents modeled in a lot of ways, this sort of style of leadership. So man, I really appreciate you coming on. This conversation was fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's going to be a lot of neat things people can latch on to when the podcast comes out. Now, a couple of things to highlight, though. When you and I, when we were talking yesterday, there's a couple of things that you guys have going on right now at REITs. You lay that down for us so that all of us can get a first glimpse of that. Tell us more about the event in August. Yeah. Yeah, I'd be glad to. So the event in August is business owners and their key staff. That's who are interested in attending that because we primarily do technical training here at our school.

58:02 But we also want to... help the individual companies and organizations looking at challenges that they're facing and help them to work on that. And again, we call it next level because we're trying to figure out how do we help you to get to the next level? I don't know what that is. And I don't believe that it's all about growth of the top line. I feel it's helping you to have a better running organization, whatever that may be for you. And so we bring you into a group of a lot of other contractors. And we'll talk about things like we're going to spend one day on just looking at pricing, estimating, negotiating, how to make what you're doing more profitable.

58:43 And we've been very successful with that. We've been running an estimating and negotiating program, which is by far the longest running program in the industry. But we constantly update it because we're doing it upstairs in our restoration office. And so we're constantly adapting to what is going on at this moment in the industry. And we've had thousands of contractors go through that. We are bringing updates to that program during that annual event. But we're also going to talk about some of the number one challenges that we have heard from contractors going, we need help fixing this. So we're going to discuss those things. And again, our tagline is actions, not ideas. So, you know, it's easy to just go, oh, well, here's this and think about that and blah, blah, blah.

59:27 And you go home and like, I don't have time to think about all that stuff. I'm just going to get back to work. We have a way that we've developed that we're going to help you walk away with new processes for the things that you're facing challenges with. And so you will walk away with something in hand. And that's truly valuable because you just need to step away for a minute. I have to do it. You have to do it. Every owner, you're so into the work now. Step away for a couple of days, have a good time and learn something really powerful to help you do what you do better. So that's our next level event. It's in August. You can find us on reeds trying academy dot com. And, you know, if you mentioned the show that you if anybody heard this on the show, I've got a very special gift that is extremely valuable.

1:00:13 that I will make available to you. So just mention that you heard me with Brandon and Chris and Meredith or Rebecca or whomever you talk to here will let you know what we've got for you. But I'm going to leave it a surprise. See if you can figure out what it is. Call us at our office. Right on. Digging it. Hey, nice play there. I like that. Hey, you had mentioned, hopefully I'm not overstepping here, you had mentioned something about a health and safety system. Briefly, what are you talking about there? Yeah. So this is another thing that's important to me because, again, one of the things I didn't mention, but I think is really important is you have to genuinely care about the people that work for you. And this is not for my own personal gratification.

1:00:55 I just tried. I always have. I've tried to always be very kind and genuinely like the people that I work with. As you do that, you realize, you know, we're putting people into a very dangerous circumstance. I am personally responsible for the environment I'm putting the people that I work with into. And I need to give them the information they need to be able to work safely. And that is something that has not existed. When I started doing water restoration, we obviously were getting sewer backups, cat three jobs, we call them now, right? But there was no PPE. There was nothing. All that we did is we had a big gray barrel and you take it through everything in there and you didn't talk. That was how you kept the sewage out of your mouth, right? That was PPE.

1:01:35 We didn't know any better. I mean, we weren't taught any better. And today we know much differently. As an industry, we have not put safety first. And so two things, it puts our... people that we care about into a dangerous circumstance because they're not aware of their hazards or what to do about them. It also puts you, you know, if you want to look at it from a selfish standpoint, you're putting yourself at great liability. And potentially, if there's a serious incident, OSHA comes in and you've got nothing to support it. Massive fines. So for a lot of reasons, we need a health system. Well, if you've ever gone out and looked at some of the online safety stuff like I have, It's rough. And it's like, well, here's how you're safe when doing a trenching over 12 feet deep.

1:02:17 I don't care that. I mean, and what people do is they just check out of that stuff. I mean, they're like, this has nothing to do with me. So we've developed from scratch an entire system that's just about safety on restoration projects. It's what we've needed for a long time, but it's more than just some videos. It's managing that whole process so that if OSHA does show up, documentation on all these things. You know, we talk about, oh, once a year, everyone's supposed to have a respiratory training and a new fit test. Keep track of that. I mean, some companies are, but most, most by a long shot are not. We should be doing that. What we do is our system actually manages it and keeps everyone in compliance with reminders and so forth and a lot of training.

1:03:04 But we also train a safety supervisor for your organization whom you select to be able to administrate it. So it takes us such an important, but something I didn't even understand how to do, brings all that to you as an organization and helps you to manage it. So I'm really excited about it. There is nothing else, not even close out there for us. And so if you're interested in that, give us a rank. We can show it to you. It's very cost effective. It's not expensive and simple to do. It's a no brainer. I love that. One single $5,000 fine could probably buy you a lot of support through this program. Yeah. This is just put down context for people.

1:03:46 I'll tell you something. I just thought of this. I was at Costco yesterday. As I was walking out on the ground, there was a plaque in memory of, and it was a young man. He was 21 years old that had died during the building of that Costco building. And I thought, now that can you imagine how sad, you know, but they had a plaque right there and I couldn't figure out what it was. And I asked and they said that this was a young man that had died during the construction of that building, which is brand new. And I don't ever want to, I do not want a plaque in my driveway. I don't, you know, that, imagine how, how you would feel. Yeah. So anyway, that's kind of along the lines of what we do is serious.

1:04:28 It is dangerous and we need to help people to be safe. I love that, man. It's another element of what you guys are already doing at a high level. Alright. Hey, I know we got to wrap this up. We've had you for a long time. It's been a really fun conversation. I'm hoping we can stay connected, man. I'd like to continue as a team to parallel what you guys are doing. Just very high level. It's very pro. For the folks listening, check them out. There are so many resources these guys are putting out that are super beneficial to your business. We hold you in the same spot as we do the Blue Collar Boys in terms of... You guys are of our companies. And so we just respect what both of you guys do so much.

1:05:09 So thanks again for joining us, my friend. Hey, thank you guys for what you're doing. It's really a unique perspective that you're bringing, but it's exactly what we need. So thanks, Chris. Thanks, Brandon. We appreciate it very much. Right on, man. We'll see you soon. All right, everybody. Heath, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow. Formally known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.