Ep38 - Large Loss Mastery, With Thomas McGuire

0:00 Oh, I thought you were going to do it. I thought you were going to open this up. So I was like, intentional pause. So Chris can... Christopher, how are you? I'm good. Okay. I'm good. I know. I was... Anyway, a little stutter step there to open things up. What are we doing, man? Dude, we just had a really good show. We've got a great show coming up for all of you. So Tom McGuire... So for some of you, that name will immediately register. Yep. Tom McGuire is the founder of Large Loss Mastery. So now a whole bunch more of you just recognize who we have on the show today. Yeah, that one sticks out. Yeah. So Large Loss, I mean, it's been around. I think he said he started five years ago. years ago. And I certainly have observed in the industry just their prominence.

0:41 Lots and lots and lots of people are talking about large loss mastery and I think benefiting from it. And then he also is the founder and CEO of the Edge Plus software, estimating software, which we recently got exposed to. And wow. I mean, we cover a lot of ground in the show. Yeah. It's not all tactical. Yeah, no. And I think what I really, one of the things I really love about talking to Tom is he's so forward looking. Yeah. He really is. He is so ambitious and always wants to grow himself, but there's just an optimism and an enthusiasm about the industry, about where we're going. It's kind of infectious, man. I mean, it just... pretty refreshing. I think you even make a comment at some point.

1:23 It's like, we kind of seem a bit inundated right now with all the problems and the issues and the hard parts. Yeah, the hard parts. And man, is that guy still in love? He is in love with this industry and he's bringing the passion to their projects and what he's doing. And he's just a nice guy, man. Just a good guy. And you know, Tom, he's well known and well loved in the industry. And so he's been on a lot of different podcasts and YouTube clips. And I mean, he's one of those sought after guys. And I think we kind of covered some fresh territory. If you follow Tom and you really enjoy him like we do, I think you're still going to find some really neat nuggets and little rabbit trails we take in this episode. So yeah, I think so. Yeah. Enjoy. All right, let's do it.

2:11 Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. I don't know. What'd you think? I don't know. It was kind of serious. Should we laugh? All right, man. Hey, we're really excited to have you on the show. We know that, man, you are just jamming at full tilt right now with all the training events that you guys are planning and putting on. So thanks for taking the time to hang out with us, Tom. And I'm looking forward to the conversation. I think it'll be fun. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. Where do you want to kick off? Yeah. So here's the thing. When we first started being introduced to you and talking to you a little bit about your backstory, for me, I get a kick out of the fact of where you started in terms of your career in this industry because you're part of this group that essentially in a lot of ways has established what we do today, especially in that commercial large loss environment.

3:09 And so I just wanted to give people a chance, if there's a few listening that don't know, where it started for you, how you got into this industry, and just give us some perspective on what this looked like back in the day as we began to develop what today is this disaster restoration industry. Well, for me, it started, I graduated from high school in 1983. And in 1984, I started doing asbestos abatement in the summertime. And that's how I paid for college because it paid well. You know, it was back in the 80s and, you know, we were making $20 an hour. Wow. And so we would make enough money to pay for school and take the rest of the year off.

3:50 Now it was the work sucked. It wasn't fun at all, but we were young and we didn't know any different. And we were just loving the money. And that was really, you know, what got us by. I did actually for three years and every summer. And I always was very good at project management. And the guys that I was working with over that time period, they said, hey, you know, there's this company down in Phoenix, you need to come and talk to them. And they're starting up their own remediation company and all this stuff. And they just so happen to also be part of a restoration company. So you had a choice between the remediation and the restoration. So, and I was like, I had no idea what the restoration side was all about, but I was really, always really good at project management.

4:35 So I took the job with them. So I left school. I never ended up finishing college. I left in my junior year and went right to, you know, right to hit the ground. Next thing I know, I was in Dallas, Texas and working on a job there for remediation. And then the remediation company started. wasn't doing so well. And I was like, okay, I just made the worst decision of my life here because I just left college and went with these guys. But then they came to me and said, well, we have this restoration side of our business that we'd like to get into. And this was 1986, 85, 86 now. And so I was like, what's this fire damage, water damage, restoration stuff? I didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

5:17 And so, again, then I ended up on a job in Dallas, Texas again, and this time with a Kim sponge in my hand. And it was a fire job in this little factory, mom and pop factory. And I was scrubbing the walls with a Kim sponge and once again questioning my choices. What have I done? Yeah. You know, all right. So I was going to college for accounting and now I'm like, I've got a Kim sponge in my hand. And so that's kind of how I got into it. And then luckily the company that I was with was like one of four companies that did work from coast to coast at that time. And one of very few companies were doing large loss and large commercial losses.

6:01 And so we flew all over the world. We were not only all over the country, but we were in Singapore. We did some stuff in Kuwait. We've been in Costa Rica. There was just a lot of different places that we went. early on because there wasn't anybody doing it. And so that's really how it all got started for me. It was really kind of by accident. But again, I kind of fell in love with the industry for whatever reason, the catastrophe, the travel, the long hours, the terrible diets, you know, all that stuff didn't seem to bother me all that much, you know, because we, you know, we were doing a lot of work in New York City. And one of the biggest projects where I got my where I cut my teeth was in Jacksonville, Florida, right after I started with the company.

6:44 And we were there for three months on a power plant. And the money was good. We were young, and we didn't know any better. And we were just having a lot of fun. We were lucky. We had condos on the beach in St. Augustine. And everything just seemed to click. And now there are some places that I've been to that that I care not to go back to. But for the most part, I've loved every city that we've been into over the last 35 years. And we've been in places that people normally, general public never gets to see, you know, because there was a disaster. And that's one of the exciting things. It's never the same. It's, you know, you can even have, you go to the same facility three times, And three different types of losses.

7:30 So it's always changing and always different. I was never a tie, you know, suit and tie guy with ambitions for the corner office. I know that's, this is how I go to work every day. This is my office now. So it's like... I love it. I was just thinking to myself, okay, accounting degree to running around the world, chasing storms and large cat events. It's like, wow, what a switch. Is there a part of you goes like, thank goodness I didn't stay on that track on the accounting side. Oh, yeah. There's been a couple of crossroads in my life that I've made decisions to go forward with what we're doing. And I always think back, hmm, what would have happened if I would have, you know, stayed in that or this. And, you know, the one thing that I've always done, though, no matter where I am, is I always...

8:15 put 110% of myself into it and sometimes a little bit too much. And so bringing large loss mastery to life, I work on it all the time. It's a seven day a week. It's a passion for me. There isn't, I don't have a time clock on it. And so I love what I'm doing. And so there isn't, you know, there isn't a paycheck, so to speak, that's, It's funny that you say that. I was thinking about something that a lot of business owners, I think, feel challenged by with their employee base or whatever. And it's just sometimes this lack of vision on the individual. Just that ability to see, okay, here's the situation right now in front of me. However, there's all this other opportunity.

8:57 There's these things that I could see coming to fruition or coming together if I stay here, if I continue to participate. In my mind, of course, I'm making some jumps here, but it sounds like you're the kind of individual that carries with you some sense of adventure and vision, though, so that when you're in a current situation, you're kind of seeing what could be or what's next. Is that accurate? I think we all have to be asking ourselves, Am I doing enough? Can I do more? What else can I do? How can I improve myself so that I'm a better person, that I'm a better teacher, a better husband, better boyfriend, whatever? All of those things, I think we always have to be challenging ourselves. And I think in our business, if we have passion in our business...

9:40 I think our businesses are much more successful because when you passion, you can't learn that you can't get that in a college degree. It has to come from within. And that's, you know, it's one thing to open up a business, but it's another thing to really, really love doing what you're doing. And because it drives you when you get that passion, you'll have more ideas, more things. And people will look at you and say, but man, how do you do that? How do you stay ahead of the competition? You stay ahead of the competition by not worrying about the competition, but just fixing yourself and making sure that you are doing everything that you can. Can I ask you a question about that? I love that. Has there been seasons in your life where you felt like you were lacking passion and or found yourself in a situation or a context that you weren't fired up?

10:29 And how did you process through that? Oh, yeah. There, you know, there were some times where it was just like, man, what am I doing? You know, and later on in my career, it's like 10 years in, 12 years in. It's like, OK, all right, what are we doing? And then you have that. So it's kind of like age. You know, like when you turn 30, you have one set of trends in your thoughts. And you turn 40, you have another set. You turn 50, you have a whole nother. And when you get to in your 40s and in your 50s, it's like, okay, where are we at? So in the 40s, I was kind of, all right, so I didn't, I missed a couple milestones that I set early on in life, you know, which were unrealistic to begin with, but yeah. Goals, nonetheless.

11:09 And so you're always recalibrating. And so, you know, when I started Large Loss Mastery five years ago, six years ago, almost now, and when I started that, it was purely just on what's next and purely just a passionate move about leaving something behind. about giving back to an industry that's given me so much and taken me around the world. And so now I get to teach a lot of the best practices that we set back in the 80s when nobody was, you know, we didn't have IRCRC or anybody back then. Back then, IRCRC was where you got your carpet cleaning certificate. And restoration was still down the road a ways, you know, as far as training and all of that.

11:56 back in the early 80s. And so that all of that information now is what I plug into large loss mastery. And that's what attendees get. They get everything. They get 110% from me and 110% of me. And so they get everything that I ever learned or everything that I ever seen that worked or didn't work. And so we plug in all of those best practices that are now just part of the concrete of the industry. There is, I want to touch base on that, probably defer it for just a couple minutes, but there is something unique about the training that you're doing and just this real emphasis on live and interaction with the group. And of course, there's more to that. So we're going to get into that soon in terms of just kind of the nuts and bolts of what you do and why you do it the way that you do, because it's pretty epic.

12:42 But before we go there, just before we leave the past here a little bit, can you think of like kind of top of mind an example or a story where you guys were kind of making something up on the fly that eventually became something that you consistently deployed? I'm just thinking, man, the size and scope of jobs that you've been a part of, there's got to be some cool story in there somewhere. Mm-hmm. Well, you know, when we were, I'll give you one that I can think of. There were several, but when we first, when I was with, when after I started with Munchers and we were the only drying company in the industry to speak of, and we were, We were trying, you know, for distribution of air, we were trying to find ways because we just had a lot of flex duct in the early 80s.

13:26 You know, 83 was the first time that a Descan dehumidifier had ever been used on a job, on a drying job. And when I joined Munters in 94, was about the same time that we started to find, okay, we need to duct, you know, some type of ducting. And LayFlat, we were working with a company that was making these long tubes for bags. So they're making plastic bags. And so the plastic material, you know, would be a tube and it would come in, you know, miles of it. And then they would cut it and seal it. And now it's a plastic bag. So a big six mil bag for like abatement work.

14:06 Well, we were doing one of the factories and somewhere, I can't even remember now, but we're doing one of the factories and we were looking at it and going, huh look at that and so we said can we have one of these rolls and we took one of the rolls and it was a little bigger than what we needed it might have actually been a little smaller but we looked at it and then we looked at the duct you know the supply on our desiccant dehumidifier and we're looking at it going okay and then we looked at the flex duct and we said can you make it this size and they said sure and so that's where lay flat get out of here for us came from so I'm just thinking how much of a staple that is like you know what I mean like what are the bare bones things that everybody's ordering and lay flat oh my gosh it's like a bedrock item that we use so that literally came out of that it was trash bags pre-finish that's awesome Very few people actually know that story.

15:07 And it wasn't until you asked me that question, I was like, oh, hmm. Because there's several of them. But Lay Flat was probably the best one. And that was early, I would say, 1996. Maybe let me go back a little further than that. I think it was 90... I think it was around 94, 93, 94, somewhere in that. Gosh, that is amazing. Man, old days for sure. Wow. That's awesome. And before we transition to some of the current day stuff, so we chatted about this just a little bit before the podcast, but I think let's talk emotional, spiritual, physical health. You know, our industry, and you've been in it longer than either of us, our industry is really known...

15:54 And really, the greater home services construction field is known for chaotic hours. And it's a stressful industry. It's difficult on families. It's not known for how we prize self-care and taking care of ourselves. And I think for somebody who's been in the industry so long and traveled so much and experienced so many different cat events, how have you learned... to care for yourself? Because I mean, you're by all appearances a fit guy. You have tons of energy. You're continuing to build things late into your career. You've already been at this 30 some years. What does that journey look like? Because you talked about back in the day, you were just running and gunning, probably the 80s version of monster energy drinks and cigarettes and fast food, right?

16:37 How did you make that transition over time and what compelled that? What does your journey look like in terms of caring for yourself and emotional family, all that kind of stuff? It's very important. And just on a side note, we didn't have Red Bull or anything back in the 80s. I don't know. It was all big gulps and stuff from 7-Eleven. But I think it's very important. And I tell people, I used to be in the franchise business for a little while. I was doing a large loss for one of the franchise companies here for a couple of years before I broke out onto my own. And I was always used to, with the people that were coming in, They were all shapes and sizes and all ages.

17:19 And you'd see the ones that were late 50s and early 60s, and they were getting ready to buy a franchise for a restoration company. And the one question I would have for them is, you know, this is a young man's game. You know what is expected of you to succeed. You know, if you don't have the money to hire muscle, you are the muscle. And so you really have to make sure you're making the right decision at first. Second, once you're in it, is it a passion? Do you care about it to the point of where it's part of your life? And it has to be. It has to be a driving force in your life. It has to be part because it's where you're going to spend half of your life is working.

18:01 It has to be something good. So if the long hours and the big gulps and the Big Macs, you know, because you're going to have those moments where that's all you have. If that's not what you want, then this isn't for you. And there's some people that it's not for, but for the people that are out there that they're passionate about this business, they love this business, and they're in a good relationship. But it is tough. It is hard on relationships. I mean, I say that as a person who's been engaged twice. And so... I was married to the road. And so for about 10 years of my career, I was on the road for 260 days a year. Wow. And for 10 years.

18:41 And so I had millions of Marriott points and holiday endpoints and... Delta points. I used to give away 250, 300,000 Delta miles, you know, for gifts for friends and family. But it cost me, you know, it cost me relationships that travel and all of that. It is very difficult. It's very difficult. And I would be lying to you if I said, you know, what I'm doing now with Large Loss Mastery, where I work seven days a week, my girlfriend Donna would tell you that It's true. And, you know, my first love is the logo, you know, for it. And because it has to be that way. And then everybody else, you know, is in there. We're all family, but it's first and foremost.

19:23 And but it is difficult in keeping yourself in shape. You have to be disciplined. One of my favorite videos that we plug into Large Lost Mastery is Navy SEAL commencement speech where he says, you know, if you want to change the world. Start by making your bed in the morning. And it's discipline. And so if you're disciplined on making sure that you're paying attention to the people around you and not just the business, that you're not just following your passion, but you're also bringing everybody along with you so they feel like they're part of the ride. That's the most important thing is being able to be disciplined with it. to where you're not running the streets with the boys at night. You're taking care of business, taking care of your body, get up early, you know, get in the little gym.

20:06 Every hotel now has at least something, you know, you can at least get on the treadmill or do something. You know, there's a million ways that you can keep yourself. If you don't keep your body and your mind, because it all starts here. If it's not here, then the rest of it doesn't matter. And so it's just, you know, because it's not the systems that fail. It's when our heads aren't in the right place. You know, the answer is interesting, Thomas. You kind of make the assumption like, He's really going to dial in to how important it is to prioritize XYZ. But you didn't. And it's not a bad thing. It's an interesting perspective is for you, the first piece, the priority for you is this business is the thing that you're creating, whether it be a restoration team or whether it be obviously what you're doing now with Large Loss Mastery.

20:57 I appreciate that. I appreciate it because there are many of us, sometimes I feel like I'm in this category, but not always, where just because of our natural wiring, if we're not engaged in something that feels like we're lifting, creating, building a mission, we aren't happy. And so I think we can oversimplify some of the things that we're talking about in terms of, well, everything's balanced. It's all about making sure that you prioritize all the facets of your life. And I I think we need to have understanding of the different facets of our life, the different things that influence us or that we hold important. But I think it's also okay for us to understand there's going to be certain people, the way they're wired and the things that they're chasing, that that is never going to be second to anything else.

21:42 And as long as we're diligent about communicating that and building relationships that can thrive in that kind of prioritization, you're going to be okay. Is that an okay summary of kind of where you went with that? Absolutely. I mean, it's, and that's just from my perspective and, you know, from my perspective, it's, you have to have people that are helping you row the boat. You know, you have to have people that have your back when you don't have your A game and you, you know, you have to have that. You can't do anything by yourself. And with large loss mastery, it's a little bit different because I'm at that tip of the spear because I don't have a book or anything explaining how to do it.

22:26 You know, we're buying a franchise or something. There's a whole support system. I am the support system. And so I have to surround myself with people who know more. who are better in certain areas and then have my downtime with my girlfriend and where we can escape on little vacations or go down to our favorite restaurant or whatever it is. And so when you're in a situation where you're creating something that has never been done before, it's really a challenge because you have to not only challenge yourself and act constantly, ask yourself, what am I not seeing? I know what I know, but what am I not seeing here?

23:07 What more can I do? What am I not doing enough of? And what am I doing too much of? And when you're creating something that there isn't a blueprint for, that's challenging, but it's also really exciting. Because when it starts to click and you start to see it working, it's unbelievable the energy that you get out of that. And I've just been blessed to have been very fortunate to have worked with. amazing people all through my life and they wore off on me. And so now I'm trying to wear off on other people. Yeah. My gut says you've been doing that most of your career, man. I know that what little time we've spent with you, you wrap all your experience in a ton of humility.

23:48 So I think that I'm glad you're on the mission that you're on right now, because I think a lot of people are getting a ton of benefit from your experience in the way that you carry yourself in that perspective. So that's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. All right, let's take a minute to recognize and thank our MitResto Mastery sponsor, Accelerate Restoration Software. And I'm fully aware, by the way, that when I say those last two words, restoration software, that that instantly creates heartburn for some of you out there, right? Because we probably all fall into one of two camps when it comes to software. We've either cobbled together kind of a version of free website tools and spreadsheets just to make our business work, Or we're in the camp where we've adopted one of these existing restoration platforms, you know, one that has all the bells and whistles and supposedly does it all.

24:40 But we can't get our team to consistently adopt it and input information to it. Yeah, and that's really where Accelerate has honed their focus. They've created a system that's simple, right? It's intuitive, and it focuses on the most mission-critical information, i.e., guys, your team will actually use it. Let's talk about sales, right? After years of leading sales and marketing teams, the biggest trick is getting them to consistently update notes about their interactions with referral partners and clients. And the essential piece there is there's got to be a mobile app experience. And in our experience... the solutions that were previously out there were just too cumbersome and tricky to use.

25:24 Yeah. Imagine guys, how your business would change if your entire team was actually consistently using the system. Do yourself a favor, go check these guys out at xlrestorationsoftware.com forward slash MRM and check out the special offers they're providing to MRM listeners. All right, let's talk about actionable insights. Owners, GMs, you can't be your business's expert on all things estimating. You might've been three years ago when you were writing sheets in the field, but the industry's always changing and so are the tools. If you're the smartest person in the room when it comes to Xactimate Matterport, how does that scale? You're the bottleneck.

26:05 I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is where Actual Insights comes in. They're a technical partner that can equip your team with the latest bleeding edge information and best practices, and then update them with webinars and training resources when the game inevitably changes again. For this reason, we recommend actual insights to all of our clients. Yeah, three of the kind of big things that stuck out to me when being introduced to AI and their team. First off is this consistently updated training. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys are the experts. They're out front all the time. They're constantly learning new trade secrets and ensuring that your team's got access to those things. A 3,700 plus page database of Xactimate templates.

26:48 I don't know what else to say here other than Don't reinvent the wheel. It's already available. Download it, copy it, use it, bam. Database of commonly missed items. I think this is huge. So many of us can change the numbers by just moving the needle a couple points and those commonly missed items can make all the difference in the world. So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash F-C-G. Before we move on. Yeah. Yeah. Just you bring up disciplines as having been an important thing for you to develop over the years. What are some of the disciplines that are really important to you at this stage of your life? At this stage of my life, the most important discipline for me is health.

27:32 You know, and once you go past 50, all bets are off. I mean, things might have been fine last week. And then it's like right now, you know, I've got at the doctor this week and it was like, all right, so I hurt. Well, we don't know why you're all right. But I hurt, you know, now this hurts. Now that hurts. And so the main that's I think that's probably the number one thing is when you're in your 30s and 40s, make sure you're watching out for the 50s. You know, your knees, your shoulders, all those things, you're going to miss them when they don't work like they used to. It just is. And so that's probably the biggest discipline now is health.

28:13 And especially with my schedule this year, it's like, dang, you know, I'm having to train like Rocky just to make sure I can get through this first half of the year. And that's the biggest thing is making sure you're healthy. Because if you're not healthy, you're not any good to really anybody, you know, including yourself, starting with yourself. Man, we just recorded an episode. And now I'm getting a little bit more courageous that I want to let it go out into the open world is based on what you're saying. It's like Chris and I have just had this a bit of a... Epiphany is a really neat word. But we just came to this realization of how important some of the things that we've done to shift a focus onto our health in terms of it being foundational for being able to build the company, be able to do serve people the way that we are and I've been hesitant to let that show go out because it felt a little condemning and a little bit like we're trying to guilt people or condemn what they're doing.

29:07 And that's not the point. It really is like what you're hammering on is that's kind of the foundation of the system. Like you can't keep asking to produce when something doesn't have fuel, right? Or it doesn't have, you know, its functionality. The equipment's not working, you know? Yeah. And what is that? I mean, can we dig in? What does that mean to you that fitness or taking care of yourself? Like what practically speaking, like how do you fit that in? I mean, you have a really intense schedule, even though you're not operating in the field like you used to, you are very busy traveling all over and teaching and so forth. So what does it look like for you to be disciplined about your health? Well, when I got about three years ago, I downsized. And so I had a house that was, it was, it required a lot of work.

29:47 You know, I landscaped it. It was awesome. You know, and outdoor movie screens and pools and tiki bars and all that kind of stuff. And, but I'm very passionate about that too. So I was always working on it. And so I decided I was going to sell and downsize. And so I downsized into, I've got a condo now. It's right on the river and it's really cool. And I can watch rockets go out that window over there. Well, they don't actually go out that window, but I can watch them launch over there at Kennedy Space Center. But luckily there's like just, there's a little gym down here and there's lots of area to walk around, walk and run and all that. And they've got a little gym downstairs. And it's actually, this is why one of the number one reasons why I chose here is because, you know, it's got a little Marcy machine.

30:31 It's got a couple of treadmills and, you know, so it's got some weights and stuff. And so, and when I'm working, I just, I get up in the morning, I put on my gym clothes and I work. And then when I get a break, I just go down to the gym and, and do my hour a day. And, It's a religion. If I don't do it, I'm actually upset with myself. Because I live in Cocoa Beach and in Cocoa Beach, it's very laid back and you can get in a real laid back mode and drink too many beers around here at night. And then it's counterproductive. And so I try to keep the beers to the weekend if I can. I can appreciate that. And just, you know, just eating and, you know, it's just so important, you know, and the older you get, the more challenging it is.

31:15 And the harder it is to keep weight off, the more disciplined you have to believe to really pull it off. And again, going back, if I could go back and tell myself some things in my 30s and 40s, I would slow it down a little bit. Yeah. I wouldn't change anything. You wouldn't be where you're at if maybe you had listened to yourself, right? There's that kind of dichotomy, if you will, of the two things it feels like. So are you guys cool if we switch into a little nuts and bolts here? Let's do it. Yeah. So we've, obviously seen you in the industry for quite some time. You said five, six years now, right? That Large Loss Mastery first came to fruition. And just loosely, here's some of the things that we see.

31:57 One is super interactive, live primary, and in a real... I'm going to let you go into it, but You've done something really unique in the setting of the training. So just start there. Give us an overview of what Large Loss Mastery is and what's different about that training platform compared to what most of us have seen in other elements, I guess, on this more technical side of training. Well, what I did with Large Loss Mastery was I was on a project up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, kind of where all of it was born. And I was working with a franchise in Oshkosh. And he never put together a contract or a scope of work for a contract that big.

32:41 And it wasn't that big. I think it was a $300,000 or $400,000 job, which was really big for him. And I was up there and I went up and put together the contract, the scope and the number and asked, you know, I said, all right, we've got to ask the adjuster for, you know, upfront money. If we're going to ask for 20, we always ask for money up front. If you don't ask, you don't get. And so he was like, can we do that? And I was like, yeah, if you don't ask, you don't get it. So walking them through all of that, and then the adjuster who had been in the business for about 25 years said he'd never seen a time of materials contract with a budget number. I was just like, okay, well, really? I was like, that's what this industry was born on was time of materials and a budget number.

33:27 And so I started to realize, and he brought in a consultant to look at my stuff. And because he couldn't, to me, that was just boggled my mind because it wasn't that big of a job. It's a small little factory, almost like the factory where I started back in the 80s with that chem sponge. It's almost exactly the same. And so I started to realize that the gap in the industry was growing. It was expanding between the consulting insurance and the insured side and the end user and the restoration companies. And so it wasn't necessarily a gap. It was the gap was really just because of inexperience and lack of knowledge about the basics, about the fundamentals, about the best practices of the industry.

34:12 And no one was teaching that. And so what I did was I got together with Mickey Lee and Brad Key, who are good friends of mine and just brilliant guys. And Brad has been in the industry for. Oh, God, 40 years. Wow. And yeah, he's one of the founding fathers of commercial restoration as it is today. And he got with them and took a skeleton of an idea and sat down and wrote and rewrote and restructured. and created a program called Large Loss Mastery. And it had all the best practices from damage assessment to scope writing to critical path management to managing changes, managing variances, invoicing, audit triggers, all of those things.

35:03 And so because no one was touching on those things. There was lots of technical courses on how to dry information. But there weren't a lot of programs that were designed on how do you manage, how do you do the job so that you're profitable? How do you estimate it so that you're correct and you're competitive? You know, and how do you do a damage assessment? You know, that's the foundation of the project. And so all of those things weren't being taught anywhere. And so I put them into the first manual. I think I have three down. I have three different manuals. manuals now with a new one coming soon with a technician the next tech we're going to add a next tech course which will be the next level technician but that's that'll come later this year and that will be based on the same principles you know that not The technician motion of how to dry and how to remove carpet or how to clean a wall, but more on how to manage people, how to manage the client, how to manage a problem, working through, you know, critical thinking, you know, managing the critical path.

36:07 All of those things that we need the guys to be doing over and above just pulling equipment and moving equipment and taking readings. We want the next level of everyone. So that's where I want the journey that I try to take everybody on is this is where you need to be thinking. Because a lot, everybody gets in this box and they just think like this. My job is to remove the blinders so that they'll see everything. and not miss anything. And look around, always look around and ask yourself, you know, what if, how much and how long? What if something happened? How much would it cost? And how long would it take? And if we're always asking ourselves those questions and plugging in the best practices of what we already know, you're ready to go.

36:51 So when that call comes for that big job, you're ready. Because that's my job, is to have you ready for when that moment happens. Whether that moment is... Today, where that moment is this year or next year or five years from now, that's our job is to have you ready for when that moment happens. I love it. Talk to us a little bit about this setting, because I think the setting for what you do is really a major differentiator from other types of training or learning systems that I've at least seen. Walk us through that a little bit. And what does somebody experience when they come to an event specifically done by you? The experience, well, number one, and kind of in everything that we do, we have to enjoy the moment.

37:36 Enjoy where you are. Enjoy what you're doing. Enjoy the moment. If you're not enjoying the moment, then do something else. And so that's the first thing I always tell everybody and that I want to convey to them. When we do a class, say, for example, when we're here at Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral up here, we're always like at a little resort and to where everybody is in one place so they can network, they can communicate, they can meet new friends, new allies, new strategic partners, you know, that will be. coming through the class. And so I like having that atmosphere to where everybody's in one place and we have dinners together, you know, we go to the class together and then we plug in a case study that we break into teams and usually a teams of three or four.

38:23 And the case study will always be a fire, water. And in this last couple of years, we added in COVID. And we're there at the resort. So the resort is part of the case study. So there'll be fire and water damage at the resort. And then we tie in a field trip to Kennedy Space Center and we'll have a fire and water scenario at the Saturn V building or at the Atlantis building or other buildings that are on campus out there. And so we get to go on a field trip, but I want them to look at it not through the eyes of a tourist, but... but through the eyes of what if, how much, and how long. And the atmosphere and everything is a built-in distraction because I also want them to be nervous and distracted and look around and say, oh my God, this is, how do we do this?

39:09 Where do we start? But by the end of the class, the proposals that are turned in are second to none. And we've taken them And just a short and an eight hour period, they've put together a three or four million dollar project. And some of the guys that have done that have never even done, you know, a hundred thousand dollar project. And so it's all in our minds on what we, the limits that we put on ourselves. And one of the things that I pride myself with the class is we remove those limits and we take the blinders off because we want them to see everything. You know, some in the industry, they want the blinders on. They want because they don't want restorers to make mistakes.

39:51 We want them to do exactly this. We want them to use this. But my theory is if you're trying to keep these guys doing the same thing that everybody else is doing, you're not helping them grow. You're not helping them really at all if you're just afraid to let them make mistakes. Because guess where all of the biggest things and all of the most successful things that come into this world are based on mistakes that we made or things that didn't work the first time. Removing the blinders is the biggest thing for me and getting people outside of their box and then making them feel really comfortable with doing something. And I have to remind them at the end of the class, look around and look at what you just did.

40:32 Look at the proposal that you just put in. You know, I would take their proposals and put them up against... any real project that may come up. And so it's really exciting to see the light bulbs come on and for them to see exactly what they're capable of. And that's the biggest jolt for me is like, man, look at these guys, you know, and I have to grab myself and look around the room and say, wow, look at this. This is happening. This is real. And so it drives me to no end to be better. Go ahead, Chris. Well, I just wanted to affirm kind of what you said of taking the blinders off and addressing those limiting beliefs, right?

41:12 Like I could imagine there's some restorers out there that are new to the game or they're new to the large loss scenarios or cat work and they're intimidated. Like, I don't know if I have what it takes to do a $4 million loss. We encounter this sometimes with our clients who are looking to grow and get to the next level in their business. And there's just this kind of fear of, I don't know if we're ready. I don't know if I've got the experience or whatever to jump into that area of the business. But I... So Brandon and I, we had a Zoom chat with you a handful of weeks ago. And you walked us through the Edge Plus software. Now, for somebody that I've not been in the estimating side... I mean, I've only had cursory exposure to it because I've primarily been on the branding, marketing, sales stuff. But even as a newcomer to that conversation...

41:55 I felt a great sense of understanding and confidence, actually. I'm like, oh, so this is how it's done. I haven't been involved in a lot of those large loss estimating environments. And so even just listening to you and the way that you broke down the Edge Plus software and kind of walked us through a case study scenario... Like, oh, yeah, this is this is so doable. You know, like this is very accessible, I think, for somebody who hasn't even spent a lot of time on the estimating side of the business. So I just want to affirm that I can only imagine what that case study exercise is like in terms of accelerating people's skill. You know? Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. One of the things I was thinking about too is just the real differentiator.

42:35 And this is so common. It's like, we all buy the same gear, right? Now that you guys invented LayFlat, we're all using it, right? All the things. But there's this reality that... In my limited experience, we had the opportunity to work with some larger brands and watch some very competent large loss project managers work. execute on larger projects. And it is less about... And I'm not downplaying the requirement of technical competency. But in addition to that, I guess, and is there is a real key element to the way that we manage the experience is what prevents us from getting in a lot of trouble. And two things that you talked about stood out to me.

43:15 One is getting some money up front. I don't know why in this industry, we are so shy to ask for funds to do our job, but it is what it is. So you have not because you ask not. I love that. But then it's this prep. It's the, what does the org chart look like? Who's doing what? What is the combination of leadership to labor force? And that's really what... And we haven't even tipped into this, but your software is really designed to help us get a grip on that. And that inevitably helps us save face and liability in terms of consultants and billing and all the things post event. Do you want to just touch on the edge software a little bit before we close our time together?

43:56 Absolutely. And I'm going to keep it simple, stupid guy. And all my life, I like to create things that make our make my life easier. When I was in my project manager days, you know, back in the early 90s, when the first laptops came out, it was amazing because you could actually create a critical path. You could create these things for the job. And so I always had, you know, all of these things in my head. And in the late 90s, I had an idea for an estimating tool where I could put together an estimate on everything, whether it be documents, document recovery or structure or high tech, which would be your electronics and all of that. And then it just kind of sat on the legal pad for a long time until, you know, I started up Large Loss Mastery.

44:42 And it was like, OK, I started to see where it all started to fit in. And then a buddy of mine, Brad Key, who has just taken in an enormous amount of data, created a production rate calculator. which is now part of the Edge Plus. And then out of that, you grew the rest of the Edge Plus. So it's all based on historical data. And when you use it, you'll see that it's typically we're within 10%, either a little bit higher, a little bit lower than any project that you've bid in the past. And so that's always a challenge that we always give to everybody. It's like, Take it, plug in your projects that you did in the past. It took a couple of days for you to estimate.

45:23 And you'll see that now you can do what used to take a couple of days or even a day. You can do it in 45 minutes or an hour, as long as you have the right data. You have all the damage assessment done and everything. And that's what's really cool about it is it works and it's accurate. Now, there are some people that going back to some people in the industry, they want to keep everybody in that box. The edge is outside of that box. And it literally, the name says it as it is. I want to take people to the edge. I want them to be on the edge of where they can get with projects and estimating. I don't want them in a box. I want them on the edge of the industry. And so there are people that they're like, no, Tom, we don't want guys.

46:06 We want to be using the same, you know, all this. I don't You know, again, I just don't apply to that. It's like I don't want everybody thinking the same. Everybody doesn't think the same. And everybody should be outside of the box and utilizing all the tools that are out there because this is an amazing tool. And the guys that are using it, that are using it on the most consistent basis are extremely happy. And they are the guys that drive the next version. Every month we come up with a new update. And so it's one thing about software, it's in constant evolution. It's never complete. And I'm never satisfied with it. And or am I ever satisfied with myself?

46:48 I'm always demanding more out of myself on a daily basis. And the same with the software. It's never complete. And I was having a conversation with some clients on Monday and we were talking about what they were wanting to see and what I was telling was coming, you know, in the future. And it's just really exciting, especially when they use it and I get that call and be like, man, this software is amazing. And I wish I would have had it when in the 90s and 2000s, who knows where we'd be at right now. Yeah, I think it's been, I think it's powerful. We of course are just starting to get kind of a grip on it and learn more about how it's deployed.

47:30 But I think it's just that for people listening that, you know, just to be clear, this is not a product pitch. It's more from the perspective of making the transition to commercial can be very intimidating. And we've got to take action to help prevent some of that or remove some of that intimidation so that people can be passionate about it. And they can bring... It's like we have this saying with the technicians, making it easier to do the right thing than the wrong thing. Anything that we can do to equip someone or any tool someone can use where it makes it easier for them to, as you say, be creative and think out of the box, it's got to require some confidence. You don't freestyle with an instrument until you have enough confidence about the basics that you're not thinking about it anymore.

48:11 And I think in a lot of ways, this software is a tool to help people get there. They don't have to be so caught up on the concern of, do I have it? Do I have enough experience? Whatever. They can leverage a tool like this that's got years and years, multiple decades of experience for them. So again, I want to be clear, we're not big product pushers. And so I don't want people to get the wrong idea. But this is something that will give you more confidence to make this transition into commercial. And your training does the same thing. And a way to look at it too is, you know, all the training that's out there, we're always focused on sizing equipment. You know, so we're always looking at the CFM or gallons per day. That's all production rate. And that's all production rate of equipment.

48:53 But nowhere is anybody teaching the production rate of people and how to size your crew and how, because that's what all this is about. And so do you have too many people on the job? Do you have too few to be? And so that is the other, besides the estimating part of it, is the production rate calculation that tells you exactly how many people you need to do the job, supervisors and production people. And so it's very exciting. I get everybody should be using it. Yeah, I think, again, coming at it from the sales customer experience, the soft side of the business, I think what I appreciated is a lot of times the cost of mitigation restoration projects is just this black box to our customers.

49:39 Even our commercial customers that have higher loss propensity, more experience with these kind of damage events and so forth. The whole billing and invoicing and cost of the projects has always been this black box because of Xactimate. And it's so robust and complicated and everything else. As I went through that case study with you, when you did that for Brandon and I, I thought to myself, this really makes the process a lot more plain. I mean, it really breaks it down to the fundamentals. It was so easy to understand where the costs were coming from. And I thought to myself, well, shoot, I go back to when I'm in the field doing Going into customer segments like multi-site hotel groups and stuff like that, to be able to sit down with an operations leader pre-loss and to be able to take them through a loss scenario and explain the cost factors that drive the overall severity of damage events and so forth would be a really interesting way to augment your sales process or relationship with clients.

50:35 Right. Kind of coaching them through giving them a really clear view of, hey, if we have 10 units affected at one of your hotels, we have this kind of scenario. Let me teach you kind of the moving parts and show you what that scenario is going to look like before it happens. Wow, that is a cool, that's potentially a cool sales tool. Have you seen any kind of progressive companies starting to experiment with using it in their sales process or account management? Yeah. Not yet, but that's part of our business development course, you know, is plugging the edge in not only for estimating, but because once you understand how powerful it is and how much leverage it gives you and you take, you walk into any size company and say, okay, what if there was this scenario?

51:18 What would it cost? Boom, boom, boom. Here's, let's run you through this. Here's what your cost, your estimated cost would be under this scenario and under these guidelines. And it's a tremendous leverage tool, especially if you're doing ERPs or DRPs, to sit down now with the client that you just signed up on an emergency or disaster recovery plan. And now you can walk them through and show them what costs. a scenario may cost them. That is tremendously valuable. Number one, it may show them that they're underinsured. Number two, it may solidify them and say, you know what, we got the right company because not only are they saying what they're getting, they're already telling us what that scenario would possibly cost.

52:00 And so it's a tremendously powerful tool for sales, ops. And then even in the project management world, you know, knowing your production rate, when you're a project manager is very important so that you know, are you producing what you should be producing? Yeah, I think the other thing too, we were just talking about this earlier with some training content is that pause that happens in these organizational charts or these chains of commands in the commercial environment, like our on-site leadership, we need to be aware that they have limited decision capacity for a lot of really good financial and business-based reasons. And so the more that we can do and the faster we can provide the kind of information to speed up their decision-making process, the quicker we can move forward with the project.

52:46 But if we don't do a good job of creating and providing that level of information... there's no way for them to be proactive and be able to keep that project moving as well. And I think a lot of people may not fully grasp how much better this tool actually makes that particular process. It's that, what do we, I think some companies refer to it as the rough order of magnitude or something along those lines. It's just... Give these folks tools to make decisions that will therefore make you able to produce the work and move forward with the job. And this would play a really critical role in that as well. Oh, you know, we're just scratching the surface with it. And that's the exciting thing about it.

53:28 And I have to be very patient because I'm like, for me, if you don't have this weapon in your toolbox, then you're really missing something. And it's one of those things that when we first put it together, it's like we started testing it. It was so accurate. And one of the first things some of the people would say was, where has this been? Why is this the first time? And so I'm very excited about it. And whenever we test it against any of it, it's always there. And so I'm very excited about where it's going. That's awesome. That's cool. That's awesome. Well, hey, Tom, as we wrap up, I think we've probably created a fair bit of interest in some of the different work you do. So could you just share real quickly for people that are just kind of getting turned on to you and Large Loss Mastery and the Edge Plus, are there events that people can get in on still this year that if they're not totally full, what are those?

54:19 When are they coming up? The number one thing is I always have enough room. And so no matter where we're at, we always have enough room for more. And so... you can go to largelossmastery.com and check out our schedule. Just go to register and you'll see our courses that are coming up. We do have a few more that will be popping up in the fall, but you'll see our full schedule. And then you can also check out the Edge Plus, which is also there at largelossmastery.com. Just click on get the edge and you can select either the basic edition or the plus edition. I really suggest the plus edition because it's the basic edition is just really just the calculator.

55:01 You won't be able to do any scope work or anything like that contracting. And eventually, we'll probably stop offering the basic anyway and just offer the plus. And so, largelossmastery.com. And there is a phone number that's on the top of the page. All you got to do is that goes right to me. Any questions or anything, come right to me. And so, I'd be more than happy to see everybody at a course or if they have any questions at all. You can also shoot me an email at tom at largelossmastery.com. Awesome. Right on. Well, thanks again, my friend. We appreciate you hanging out with us. It was exciting to see you and talk with you some more. And we do encourage folks to learn more about what you're doing, what you're training.

55:43 It's a game changer, I think, for those that are making that transition into the commercial space. So thanks again, my friend. Yeah, dude. We admire what you're doing in the industry, man. Big time. Thank you very much. Thank you for the time. Yeah, right on. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.