Ep 129 - "No BS Fitness, With Drew Skaggs"

0:00 This intro is a little lackluster. Where's your energy level right now? Well, you know, dude, I was in a cold tank for... Today was five minutes this morning before 6 a.m. Five minutes? Five minutes. Listen. Wait, is the water temp up to 68 now? Brandon, I can't stop myself. I'm telling you, bro. I know you. We've known you to... If you do this, I promise you, you will thank me if you get into a cold plunge routine in the morning. It's going to change your mental health. It's going to change... It's been invigorating. I'm on day five. I'm on day five. My freaking 12-year-old boy joined me this morning. Dude, I'm so not sold yet. I'm going to be very transparent with you. I still feel like you're selling Hocus Pocus.

0:42 It was the best investment I made, second only to my sauna. My wife and I were reflecting on this, actually. We spent five grand on putting that sauna in. Mackerel. And it's not like we're just rolling in $100 bills. So it was an investment. And I put it off for a while. I'm like, I don't know about the space too. But I did it. And seriously, it's one of those things I have friends over. You aren't looking at your freaking phones because your phone will overheat if you're staring at it in there. So the phone has to be on the floor. We turn some music on. It is one of the most relaxing, rewarding things I've spent on. on my property is putting that sauna in. Okay, sauna. And my kids, my kids and my wife, we sit in there and all you can do is sit quietly or talk.

1:24 And I'm serious. It's been one of the best things. In the cold plunge, you're only doing that for a few minutes, but the physical anxiety and mental health benefits, and it's really great. Okay, anyways. So today... That was actually the perfect lead-in. It was great. Today, we have Drew Skaggs. Drew Skaggs is a national champion D1 baseball player, Rice University. I'm pretty sure they're a D1 school. Anyway, he was a very successful baseball player, college athlete, a CrossFit certified trainer and gym owner in the area. I happened to go to his gym. I've been there five years and I really liked Drew. I think you'll see in this episode, he's a really cool dude. And we cover the gamut. Mitchell Riley, by the way, thank you for posting a... a question or comment on my LinkedIn Live this morning about the show.

2:07 It was a great question to open up the show. And we talk about what are some of the lived experience benefits that you and I have had in fitness, which other people have heard. I promise that's not the majority of the conversation. Drew gets to talk. But Drew, he gives some really practical advice, including some practical tips for how to think about fitness while you're traveling. Because that's been a tricky thing for you and I. Some hotel gyms are really awesome. Like the one in Austin at the Collective by Core. Freaking awesome gym at the JW Marriott. Just a little tip there. That thing was silly. It's silly good. And then others, it's like there's a treadmill and some plasticated weights from five pounds to 20 pounds.

2:47 It runs the gamut, but he gives some great tips on how you can think about structuring a workout. He gives some tips about motivation and other ways to get more in a habit. We talk about mental health benefits. We talk about food. We talk about meal prep. And I think all of it was fairly approachable and actionable. A hundred percent. It might walk away. In fact, it'll be the title. It was just a no BS approach. Like it was no BS fitness, basically, with Drew Skaggs. That's really what it boiled down to, man. Yeah. So it was great. Check it out. Share it with a friend. That's it. Let's go. Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast.

3:29 I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for listening to the show. Hey, if you're not already following, please do so. And ultimately share, right? The coolest currency that we have in terms of supporting this is share it with a friend, share it with somebody, a colleague, a peer, one of your downline team members. Let them be able to take advantage of the information you're already leveraging. in your favor. And finally, guys, if you hear a show that really moves you, that really moves the needle, will you please leave us a review?

4:13 Those five-star reviews help us a ton. Right on. And listen, if you're trying to grow your business, you might consider checking out Floodlight's Business Opportunity Audit. It's free. We provide it at no charge. It's actually what we use to assess new clients as they come in. It's 110 point assessment for your business. And we've now decided to give access to the general public for it. So go and take our business opportunity audit at floodlightgrp.com. It's going to help you identify the biggest gaps and opportunities in your business right now. And at the end, it'll assign you a health score to let you know exactly where your business stands right now. So go check it out, floodlightgrp.com forward slash audit.

4:53 And take the boa. It's a great way to get a pulse on your business. Well, welcome to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast, Drew. This has been a long time coming. I mean, it's not that I've been badgering you. You pretty much said yes the very first time you asked. It was more a function of me like getting my shit together and finally scheduling you. You didn't have to talk him into it. No, no, no. You were cool about it from the jump. Patiently waiting for you to ask. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Well, you know, the cool thing is, I've actually, Brandon, I both have referenced the shop and our experience at your gym. And I've talked many times. I was just reflecting on this this morning in this live cast. I should tag you up. Do you have a shop LinkedIn profile? I don't think I'm on LinkedIn.

5:34 Okay, well, do it after we get off the call and then I'll tag you. Will do. Follow up post. So, you know, I've talked often. It's been five, I think it's been about five years since Kara and I joined. Something like that. That sounds right. I know it was before the pandemic. I wrote an industry article in our industry journal called, when I found myself on the gym floor. I don't know if you've seen that. Did I share that article with you? You know, I have not seen that article. Was that from back then or was that more recent? Oh, that was back in the day. That was old location, bro. That was probably first six months. I had some existential moments in those early training days. Yeah, that tends to happen. Yeah. So anyway, so here we are. I think, you know, the focus for the show today, I think one of the things I appreciate and I commented on this in the LinkedIn Live this morning was, you know, for Kara and I, we've been less connected to like a religious like church community over the last several years.

6:25 I think a lot of people, many people are different, you know, as they get older, the kids get older. that becomes more or less a part of their life. And so as we were kind of less connected to that community, we were looking for a new community to kind of be a part of, like people that we're seeing on a regular basis, a friend group and so forth. And in many ways, the shop became that, right? It's like, there's something really... awesome about having people where you have some shared values and shared interest that you see on a regular basis, even though we're not getting into existential conversations about God and the universe, typically in the gym, I have friends there. Some of them, like I just ran into Laura Gannon at TacoVor the other night and she waved us down and asked me about my dad.

7:08 And there's a real sense of community, I think, that you've helped develop there. And so, So that's a piece of it that I think often we don't really consider when it comes to our fitness and our wellness. And so, you know, I think there's an opportunity for us to maybe talk about that a little bit today. But I really wanted to cover the gamut, but maybe focus through the lens of wellness for business owners. And maybe this is actually a great place to start with Mitchell Riley's question on LinkedIn. Mitchell's a recruiter in our industry, runs a recruiting company, and it's been a friend of ours. And let me read his question because I think this will get us going in the right trajectory. And then I want to pause and just let you respond actually to this with your first thoughts. Mitchell says, this may be more of a time management issue, but I have a small home gym in my garage, mostly free weights.

7:52 I don't have the time to go to a gym. I'm a single dad of two with a growing business. Suggestions on how to find that consistent drive to work out regularly. And then parentheses, he says, was a team sports guy growing up. Having a group workout would be great, but isn't feasible right now. That's a great question. The first thing that I would suggest is that often people search for the drive and or the motivation, they're waiting for motivation before they take action. But a quote that I heard a long time ago, and one that's really resonated with me, is that you take action first, and motivation tends to follow. So in this case, if he has a home gym, and it is right there, just right out the door in the garage, maybe find something, it could be a five-minute routine, a 10-minute routine, something where the threshold to getting started is very low, so it's going to happen.

8:39 Yeah. And then just start doing that. Put in five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever he's capable of on any given day. And then motivation is going to build the drive to get out there and spend more and more time will build. And then he can augment the routine as he goes. Yeah. Yeah. You know what this reminds me of? Like one of my first reactions to that was I've been a follower of Mark Sisson, Primal Nutrition, made a gazillion dollars, sold at the Hines, I think. Yeah. The old guy with abs. Yeah. Holy cow. I mean, he's like shredded. I think he's the guy that like all of us, if you've seen Mark Sisson, you're chasing that. You're like, you want to look like that. I think he's freaking like almost 70. I believe he's in his 70s. Yes. Yeah. Still has abs, still like all the things.

9:22 And so he was probably the first guy that motivated me to take on this lifestyle choice. He said he has like a hex bar with plates on it. And of course, he lives in Malibu. And so he doesn't have to worry about rain. So he leaves his shit out in the backyard. But he has these places in his backyard where he has a crash pad and he has a hex bar with weights loaded up. And as he walks around his yard in the morning, he'll stop and he'll do a set of 12 deadlifts. And he's got kettlebells that he kind of places around his property and in his home. And he'll bang out a set of 12 or 15 kettlebell swings. And I just thought, man, that makes sense to me in terms of longevity and maintenance for sure. It's just get your body accustomed to having to do that at a moment's notice.

10:06 that's probably a pretty good fitness principle. And then I also follow Ben Greenfield. And Ben Greenfield, another one of these biohacker guys, performance athletes. And he also recently, he talked about that a few years ago, how he'll just have kettlebells. He has several of them just strategically placed at his back door, you know, by his patio and one in his rec room in his house and one probably by his kitchen. And periodically throughout the day, he'll sling some kettlebell movements and then keep moving throughout his day. And I took that on. And even though I have a gym membership with you and I come regularly, I set up rings on my back deck so I can bang out some ring dips and ring rows and things.

10:48 And my kids have actually started to adopt that. But that's part of my answer is get in the custom of doing something every day. Like even if it's just banging out a set of 25 pushups while you're waiting for your coffee to brew, you know, that's another thing that I was doing for a while is I'll do 25 pushups before I drink my coffee, allow myself to drink my coffee kind of thing, you know? Yep. Oh, sorry, Brandon. Kids, don't you? Yeah. Yes, I've got a five and a seven-year-old. Yeah, so you got young hoodlums and I know Mitchell does too. How have you incorporated or maybe tied some of that focus of physical fitness in with the kid time? Is it feasible for Mitch to maybe try to do something that almost feels borderline like entertainment with the kids or whatever?

11:33 Yeah, for sure. So one of the things that I get to do with my kids is I bring them to the shop and they'll run around on the turf. They'll swing on the rings. They don't do any structured exercise, but if they're keeping themselves busy, having fun, I can do something too. So depending on what Mitchell's garage setup looks like, if there's something that his kids could play on while he does a set of whatever exercise, then, you know, of course, play on safely in a mess themselves up. Perfect. Yeah. And Chris, to your point, one example that I've heard a lot of people do is, you know, those doorway pull-up bars, you can mount it over the doorframe. So if somebody puts that, let's say they work from home.

12:15 If somebody puts that in the doorway to their restroom, every time you go to the bathroom for the day, you just do a set of pull-ups. And so any given set might only take 10 seconds, 30 seconds, depending on how many pull-ups you can do. But by the end of the day, you've done a handful of them and it's a whole lot more than nothing. Yeah, and if you just did it, I do the, well, I'm up to 40 now. but I did pull ups. No, no, no. 40 pushups before the shower. Yeah. I do the old like head nod in the mirror. Like we're getting ready to start the day, knock out some pushups. And then I go into the shower feeling really great about myself. Now the rest of the day, we're not sure what's going to happen, but that's a pretty hot set, dude. 40 in a row.

12:55 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't master the pull-up engagement with you. So the only way that I have any pride is that as long as I can put out more push-ups in a single run, then I've got something to compete with. Yeah, you've got to beat your hands down. The pull-up scene has gotten largely ridiculous. And Drew, I blame you because you two are the ones with your matching beards throwing on multiple plates to do pull-ups and I still can't wrap my head around it, but... Yeah, although I don't like to talk about that because Chris is currently beating me, so... Oh, no, no. Sore subject. I really revel in that. I just like... It really boosts my ego a lot to have at least one thing that I can beat my gym owner in.

13:37 That's funny. So with Mitchell, because I think this is just so great. Obviously, they say abs are made in the kitchen, right? And from a nutritional standpoint, can you talk us through your day? Because I know you're an engineer by training. Is that right? That's right. Okay. Okay. And that shows itself in a variety of ways as I've gotten to know you better and better over the years. So you have a natural inclination towards structure and order, but you've brought that to a certain degree with your food. But I also know that you F off occasionally and you enjoy some treats. And so it's not as though you're a monk in terms of your eating habits, but you have some order and a daily habit. Can you just talk about how you manage food? Because you're a busy guy. You got two young kids.

14:19 You have a growing business. You have employees that you manage. And you're also very physically fit. Like that's been a discipline, which I can't say of every gym owner I've encountered. Right? There's a lot of gym owners that get caught up in the work of the business and they kind of let themselves go to a degree. And you've... Clearly, it's a value of yours to maintain your fitness level. So talk about kind of your food routines. Sure thing. Yeah, first, you nailed it. My very first core value is deep health. And what that means for me is that the more I take care of my body via exercise, nutrition, things like that, the better I'm able to do everything else in my life. So that kind of comes first, not to the exclusion of everything after, but more to the benefit of everything that comes after that.

15:03 When it comes to food, you nailed it. I studied chemical and environmental engineering in college. And so I'm all about routine, structure, optimization, efficiency. Those are like my buzzwords that are just built into my DNA. And I have... a breakfast that I pretty much have every day. And I've done this for going on close to 20 years. I have a lunch that I've had just about every day. It often involves meal prep. I have a protein shake that's every day. And then dinner is where it can fluctuate a little bit. I have a format, which is basically a protein, a veggie and a starch. And then within those categories, that's where I get a little bit of variety.

15:44 But beyond that, I really thrive on the repetition and the routine. And I don't need to have something different every day. And I think that's what greatly simplifies my routine and saves me a ton of time. So a lot of what I do is based on meal prep or cooking in bulk. So if I'm cooking dinner, I'll double or triple so that I have leftovers for a couple of days. When I make beef and bruzzies, that's a recipe that I came up with. I know you've eaten it, Chris. That literally makes a week of food for me. And I just have it once a day like clockwork. And with all of those sort of structures built in, I get a ton of protein, a ton of veggies.

16:25 And then as far as effing off a little bit, there's a little bit of room in there every week and I take full advantage of it. I've been a proponent of like the 90-10 rule or the 80-20 rule, where if I'm hitting my nutrition on a 90%, even 85 or 80% basis, then whatever happens with the remaining percent, fine by me. Yeah. What's your favorite go-to? cookie butter ice cream from Trader J's. Oh, nice. I was pretty certain it was a form of ice cream. Yeah. Cookie butter in particular is just ridiculous. That's the speculose cookie butter? Yes. Yes. It's like a ribbon through the ice cream. Oh, man.

17:06 Yeah. This is a theme that I've discovered amongst, uh, not just CrossFit people, but people that train routinely is the misconception. I think a lot of people have is that we're so anal retentive about nutrition. We don't ever consume any carbs and all this kind of stuff. The reality is most of the people I know that train really hard and consistently love food. They love food. And it's part of why they have to. And it's part of why they love training is it enables them to enjoy foods they love periodically on a regular basis. And, uh... But a lot of people just think we like monks or something, but I definitely do not. You know, I kind of hang in this pocket a little bit, Drew, because I may be the opposition to a certain extent, but like I'm listening to Chris talk about like, yeah, you just throw this exercise equipment in random spots throughout your house and your yard.

17:53 It's awesome. And I'm just being honest and I'm like, I would never fucking do that. Like I'm not going to do it because it doesn't hold the same level of... probably priority if I'm honest, right? Like I've always admired that about my brother in crime here is that he is very adamant about building lifestyle around this, which I think is fantastic. I'm also trying to look at it for our average listener and go, okay, the concept of meal prepping, the concept of re-engineering my house to a certain extent, my yard fixtures to a certain extent, seems like mentally you've made another tier of commitment.

18:34 For you to prioritize at that level, there's a different connection with physical fitness, I feel like, versus the average busy person that might be listening to this. Yeah. So help me as a layman understand, like I think there's Chris who's already determined in his lifestyle, this is an epically important thing for him. But what about the rest of us that just need to begin orienting ourselves around proactive engagement in this stuff, but be more realistic maybe on, what's the first phase look like? Does that make sense? Like I just don't- Yeah, I think you're doing like a good cop, bad thing, copier thing, I get it. Yeah, yeah. I do understand your question. And I think there's a lot of it depends in that answer.

19:18 But I think what's most important is that whatever someone tries to do, it should just be incrementally more than what they're currently doing. Let's say that somebody is not performing any form of structured exercise and they're wanting to get into better shape, maybe lose some weight or build some muscle. If we were to give them a five-day-a-week routine with a meal plan that covered breakfast, lunch, and dinner, that is an excessive amount of change for a single person to make. And while maybe somebody can just sort of white-knuckle through that for a couple of days, After that, it's kind of destined for failure. So the most important thing is that a change can be sustainable.

20:00 And it's just this tiny change over what they're currently doing. If somebody is not doing any form of activity, I would say the most accessible thing is walking. Just getting their steps in. If they have an office job, if they work from home, I mean, almost no matter what, you can just get out and go for a walk. And if you work in an office, you could walk laps around your office floor, depending on the size of your building, obviously. But that's the simplest way. It doesn't need to be complicated. It doesn't need to require equipment. And it doesn't have to be anything over the top. If somebody is looking to strength train or something like that, then bodyweight exercises are accessible just about anywhere.

20:41 So things like push-ups, sit-ups, air squats, lunges. And what I recommended earlier was just coming up with this very simple routine. So maybe it's the same thing every day. Maybe like Brandon, you said you do your set of push-ups. It doesn't need to be done. different from day to day because that just adds complexity. Pick a routine, something you like, and just do it. Consistency is going to be the number one thing here. Yeah, I cycle hard. You know what I mean? I go through these phases where I'm all in 110%. Then I'll go through phases where I'm lucky to push 60% dedication to it. And I know it and I for instance, with Chris, and I can see where the consistency has paid off.

21:25 Like mentally, I can kind of fuck with him for lack of a better term. But at the end of the day, his consistency is winning. And there's lots of proof in the pudding from that. And so I think as just kind of piggybacking on what you're saying is anything that we can do to try to do something to create more consistency, is overall a better return. I tend to go all in. I nerd out about dumb crap and then I get overly into it. And it's like the gear and I'm analyzing the optimal outputs. And the reality of it is, is nine times out of 10, I'm never going to do the stuff that I'm going all nerded out on to the extent that I'm acting like I am and certainly not for a consistent period of time. And so it's like almost this element, just reset the expectation.

22:07 Don't go from zero to hero Go from zero to different and see what different does, right? As long as you can maintain different for a consistent period of time. Yeah. 100%. That's a great way to put it too. Yeah. We try to share with people that are new to the shop. We try to share with them that consistency is key. Avoid the intensity trap because one great workout is not going to make you stronger fit. But three to five workouts a week, every week, for months, for years, that's what's going to transform your life. So important. Yeah. Before you go off on something else, I don't want to get too far from it. This kind of like... You made a very clear reference.

22:48 And I think this is really important. You made a clear reference to the fact that for you, the physical fitness is for the other things that you want to be more optimized, more secure in, more efficient and effective in. Can you hang in that for a little bit for us? Because I think one of the things that for me is a challenge... is I know things, but experiencing things are different. And it's hard to commit when you know something versus when you start to experience something. And I really liked the way that you were so crystal clear and unapologetic at the end. end of the day, I'm doing this because of these things, draw that connection for us.

23:29 Because I think to a lot of extent, that's the opportunity for us to be motivated to even consider the value of health and fitness beyond it's just good for you. Everybody hears that shit. And then we don't do anything with it anyway. So help me understand what you're saying and how it's being leveraged for these other elements of your life. Sure. So I think to help illustrate this, I think we might need to go all the way back to me for the summer before my eighth grade. So during that summer, I was kind of an unhappy kid and my parents were going through a divorce. And so it was a tough time. I was also a little bit... out of shape, we'll call it for a seventh grader.

24:13 And that was the first summer that I entered a weight room. And I had a very basic routine. It was machines at the local gym, but it completely changed my life. I built confidence. I leaned out. I started adding muscle for the first time at a fairly young age. And so I have been convinced ever since that this was something I needed in my life. So that transformative event happened and I can pinpoint it. I know I can tell you everything about that gym from that year for me. What that translates to later on now, so for example, today, I've developed my routine for the day to where I know what time I'm going to get my workout in.

24:56 But what happens for me is that that's kind of on my mind until I check that box for the day. So until I get my workout in, it's kind of preoccupying mental space, which doesn't allow me to focus on other things. Or knowing that I'm going to get it in allows my brain to sort of free up that space and then focus on more important things like either business or my kids or things like that. And there's rarely a day that I miss a workout, but when I do, it's all consuming. It just sort of gets to me. In terms of like, what did it take for you to start making those connections? So obviously, there was this kind of transformative moment where you were experiencing the fitness and that was fueling your consistency maybe in your commitment.

25:43 But like as you kind of sit down and say, oh, wow, this has really had a profound effect on X. Like kind of walk me through some of those. Give me some examples where you just really are experiencing this change or, or a better output in these other areas of your life and help us as the audience, like to make that connection, to be open to the connection. Right. Oh, sure. So back then, yeah, In my seventh grade year, and then all the way through high school and college, I played baseball. And every ounce of effort that I put into the weight room, I could see coming out in terms of output in my baseball career. And so it's what allowed me to have a very fun, enjoyable, and good high school baseball career.

26:28 I ended up getting a scholarship to Rice University in Houston, played baseball there for five years while I was studying engineering. We won a national championship. So all of those were sort of, I don't want to call them side effects, but they were certainly related to the effort that I put into training. I either saw it in my physical development or just that mindset of committing to something going all in was translated into sports, academics, things like that. Then once I got into my adult years, I had a corporate job a long time ago, long before I opened the shop. That was the way I started my day. I was out in my garage at 5 a.m. every morning, and that set the tone for my day.

27:11 And it allowed me to sort of, I guess, work on my grit, my tenacity, things like that, that I could then go after my day knowing that one of my big rocks had already been fulfilled for that day. Yeah, it's interesting. I switched to the evening workout piece, right? I was in the shop. And I liked it. I really loved the community element. I certainly loved being able to be in the same gym with my friend because the competition and the camaraderie is super awesome. But I did also realize that it didn't work for me because it was at the wrong time of day. I think we all are unique in that way.

27:53 And for me, there's something better for me mentally to get it done and over with in the morning. And when I say get it done and over with, that's honestly how I feel about it. The post event is great, but working up to it, oftentimes the workout itself, I'm not in love with the experience, I'll be honest. But I love afterwards. I love, like you said, I got a big rock. I've done what a lot of people won't do today already. And I think more than anything, like you said, is it just... It motivates me a little differently because I did a hard thing. And for a lot of us, if we're honest, you know exactly what I'm saying. A lot of us don't love this shit. And you're talking yourself into it all the way until you do that first rep. And the reality of it is the fact that you did that very first thing in the morning equips you to do it over and over and over again all day in all the other areas of our life that we know going into something, we're not excited about what we're about to tackle.

28:49 And so for me, going back to a morning routine just was right. It was the right fit for me mentally. And so I like it. I get a return out of it that is aligning with what I want. But I think that's an important connection is It's the whole eat the frog first, right? Like what are you going to do that day that you know you've been having some angst around or some anxiety around and knowing how freaking good it feels when you accomplish the first thing of the day that you knew took some mental gymnastics to talk your ass into doing it, right? And so I totally relate with that. And I think it's been really powerful for me. I know personally. Yeah. liftify.com forward slash floodlight.

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31:00 So AnswerForce.com forward slash... blood light. Sounds great. CNR Magazine, we're friends with all the folks at CNR. Michelle and her team, they do a great job of keeping their ear to the ground and reporting all the important information from our industry. Right? You want to stay up on all the M&A activity and what the latest best practices are for selling your company successfully. Right? She's got that. Great articles about all the four quadrants of our business. Right? CNR is constantly pushing out great material and leveraging great writers and subject matter experts in our industry. It is the water cooler of our industry. So if you're not subscribed, go to cnrmagazine.com. Follow them on LinkedIn.

31:40 Follow Michelle on LinkedIn. Trust us. If you're trying to stay on top of everything happening in the industry, your best destination is cnrmagazine.com. You guys, many of you have already heard about actionable insights and the training and the technical expertise that they bring to the industry. But how many of you are already leveraging the actionable insights profile for Xactimate? That's the game changer. It's essentially an AI tool that's walking alongside of you as you write your estimate, bringing things to your attention that should be added, that could be considered. All of them items that increase our profitability, increase the effectiveness and the consistency of that scope. And it can do anything from helping a new team member assimilate some estimating best practices.

32:25 And it also helps the grizzled vets add back that few percent that we've just forgot over time. So actionable insights, get insights.org forward slash floodlight and take a look at what the actionable insights Exactimate profile could be doing for you and your team. I've been talking a fair bit about sauna and cold plunge and how some people get so annoyed by this. Like, oh God, here we go again. But... But I got a sauna at my house and I recently got a cold plunge. And I'm about five days in from doing it first thing in the morning. My sauna, it's not a fancy one.

33:05 I don't have like an app timer preset deal. I have to like... I just have like a delay timer that I can set. And I always get it wrong. So some mornings I have to wait for it to warm up because I timed it wrong. Yeah. But I'll do 15 to 20 minutes in the sauna. My 12-year-old son actually started joining me. Simon started joining me. He's joined me four out of the last five days. That's awesome. I wake him up at 5.10 and he gets up with me. It was just fun. That may be... more worthy. Yeah, it makes, yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. Right. It's awesome. But you know, we'll listen to music, but that cold plunge, what's interesting about cold plunging. And, and I'm curious just for your experience, cause I know it's something you've gotten into a little bit here in the last several months or last year or whatever.

33:47 Yeah. The first time I did it, a friend gave me one of those feeding troughs or one of those agricultural things. He just brought it to my house. He's a cool friend. And he's like, hey, I've been doing this. I think you should try it. He just bought one for me and delivered it to my house. I was like, oh my God. Great friend. Yeah, great friend. But I stared at it for two weeks. And I filled it. And I stared at it for another week. And finally, it got to a Saturday. And Simon's like, are you going to do it? And I said, yeah, let's do it today. And I literally sat out on my back deck for four hours. Staring at me. Like, no joke. I got up. I had my coffee.

34:28 And I'm like, before I eat, I'm going to do this. And I literally sat out on my back deck with him. And he's like, so are we going to do it, dad? I'm like, yeah, I think so. I'm going to do this breathing exercise first. I did some Wim Hof and I'm trying to do some meditation. And I know this sounds really dumb to probably most people, but I was scared in a way. I couldn't get myself to do it. And finally, I did it. It took me four hours. And then it took me a few days before I could get myself to do it again. And then I had this idea. And this was a few months ago, actually. I'm like, I heard Joe Rogan talking about it. I've heard all these other dudes talk about doing it in the morning first thing and how awesome it is.

35:11 And I set my alarm and I literally, I barely slept the night before because I was so anxious about waking up and walking out into the dark and getting in this cold plunge. And I did it. I didn't do it the first day. So I lost my sleep and I couldn't get myself to do it. And then it was a few more days and finally I did it. And then I didn't do it for quite a while. But I just recently thought, okay, I'm going to do this. And the reason I bring this up is what I have found from this over the last few days is it's gotten easier and easier and easier and easier and easier to where I don't even have to... I don't make myself anymore. It's just something that I do. And I've noticed this switch in me.

35:55 And I've also noticed too, and I don't know if you've noticed this, but... I have had a level of focus and drive coming to work this last week that I haven't felt in a while, actually. And I attribute... I feel like a big portion of it is those morning plunges because I've chosen to do something that used to be extremely uncomfortable and anxiety producing. And now it's become normalized. To where kind of like what you were talking about, just the workout in the morning, it flips some kind of switch in me to where nothing else feels that hard. It might be challenging, but I'm not afraid of it or I'm not anxious about it.

36:37 It has really quelled my anxiety in a significant way with no pills. Yeah. I am really sold to the point of now I'm thinking of investing in a chiller. So it's like always filtered and chiller and stuff. Anyway, my wife isn't yet sold on that idea, by the way, when she saw how much they cost. But nonetheless, so anyways, what's your experience been with this whole cold plunge thing? And again, I'm not trying to sell anybody on cold plunge. It's more just this idea of doing hard things. And around this area of discipline, I have found a dramatic impact. impact from it? What's your, what's your take? Yeah. Well, first I want to highlight something you said and Brandon said it too, which is the biggest benefit might just be that you did something uncomfortable or hard or challenging and, and having completed it and known what it feels like to be anxious about it and then overcome it and sort of have that, that positive feeling on the back end of it.

37:29 That might be the greatest benefit of all. My experience with both sauna and cold plunge, I have a sauna at home too. I got one of the infrared ones, mostly for the convenience because it's a push button, turn it on and then just sort of set it and forget it sort of thing. With cold plunge, I haven't done it as routinely as what you're doing. What I've primarily done is a cold shower. Yeah. Just because it's, I kind of talked myself out of the cold plunge, similar to the way you started your journey, which was, oh, it's going to be cold. I got to fill up this tub. I'm going to have to change the water frequently. This is going to take forever. So to make it easy for myself, I just started in the shower when I'm done with my shower routine.

38:13 I just turn it all the way cold and sit there for about two minutes. And that's that. And tap water here and where we live is surprisingly cold. It is, man. I remember I was introduced to 75 hard a long time ago and part of it is to add the cold shower. I don't even know if that's a formal part of it, but man, that was like the worst part when I did it the first time was the cold shower piece. And it was like, I was psyched if I got to a full minute, man, the mental gymnastics for that every morning were intense though. I can't for sure. Or I still can't. Yeah, as far as the physiological benefits, probably to no one's surprise, it is highly controversial. There's some people that swear by it and say that it does all these magical things for your body.

38:57 And then other people say those are just, you know, overblown benefits and things like that. My own experience is that it's invigorating and refreshing. I generally sleep better when I've done a cold plunge. And it's just something that I'm, I have this sense of pride. I did something that not many other people do. And it was hard. I overcame it and I did it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the thing that is hard to... Again, going back to the experience versus knowledge. I think that's the real challenge sometimes. And it's interesting because a lot of the people listening to our show, they're entrepreneurs at minimum.

39:38 A lot of them, at least are key leaders, have teams of people that report to them or are directed by them. And so these are driven folks. These are people that come from an industry that is very challenging. There's nothing easy about it. Not that business is anyways. But there's a lot of things that people are having to overcome on a day-to-day basis that are very challenging. And at the end of the day, in terms of entrepreneurs, they're not the mass of the population. They're often a smaller group within your community number. So anyways, point being is people are already doing hard things. But it's interesting to me how disconnected we can still be around doing hard things as they associate with discipline to physical fitness, personal health, mental health.

40:21 It's very easy for me, and I'm just going to speak for myself. It's easy for me to tell someone and talk about and be a bit ego-driven by this, yeah, we work this long. We do these kinds of hours. We've grown the business this much. We've had to commit to this kind of travel schedule just to get the job done and move the business forward. But then I can struggle personally on how to apply that same kind of grit mentality or that focus on doing hard stuff into some of these other layers of my life, like mental, physical health. For me, I would say right now, my biggest challenge is mental health. Being partnered with Chris in a business has helped me kind of toe the line.

41:01 I used to be great in physical fitness when I was military. Outside of the military, really struggled. Having a business partner that's connected with it has helped me. But the mental health piece, like I've not done a good job of being committed and investing in that. Where am I going with this? So from your perspective, what do you see? Because you work with lots of people that aren't engineers. That discipline is harder by default. How do you connect the dots? What kinds of conversations are you having with folks to help them understand like doing this hard stuff is going to have these profound impacts that are going to carry into other elements of your life?

41:43 Are you addressing that with people, the folks that you're working with? What does that look like? For sure. I guess the conversation is a little different depending on each person. But one of the things that we try to connect for everybody is the deeper why they're coming to the gym or why they want to get in shape or why they want to lose weight, build strength, add muscle, things like that. Because if you just tell yourself, I need to go to the gym because that's what I'm supposed to do. That's not a very compelling reason. And so when times get hard or when you have a packed day, your schedule is full, stressful, things at work, something's going to give and it's going to be the weakest reason that's going to sort of fall by the wayside.

42:26 But if you connect it to a big why, so for example... why does somebody want to eat well and lose weight? And the reason might be something like, well, if I lose weight, I'll have more confidence. If I lose weight, I'll be able to keep up with my kids when they want to play in the backyard or do things like that. Or, you know, a number of reasons like that. They could run the gamut. But when you then remind somebody like you're coming to the gym because you want to play with your kids and have an active lifestyle and set a good example for them. Now that resonates. Now when they have a stressful day and they're thinking about skipping the gym, they just sort of connect with that deeper why.

43:10 And all of a sudden it becomes an easy decision. That's amazing. note to self. Yeah. That's important. Right. Note to self. That's actually a very big driver for me is, is that, is that piece. It's longevity. It's like, I think a lot of us, I'm 44. I think a lot of us watched our parents defer from, a lot of the things that were important to them until retirement. But like all the things, fun, spending money, buying the RV, doing the things. And I think many of us watched our parents, grandparents do that only to then be saddled with health conditions, disabilities, or earlier death than they anticipated. And I think many of us are coming to the table and saying, okay, how do I make sure, one, I'm enjoying myself now and I'm living my life to the fullest now because there's no guarantees.

44:00 But then also, how do I prepare myself to actually thrive and enjoy my entire life? That's part of what I'm thinking is. I want to be able to do whatever the heck I want. I want to still be able to go climb middle sister with my wife when I'm in my 50s. And maybe I have more free time and financial bandwidth to be able to do those things when I want and that sort of thing. I want to come back to the mental health piece, man, because this has been a significant piece for me. I... And I've talked about this on the podcast and had many, many conversations with other friends and fathers and stuff like that, that I have struggled for a lot of my family life, like married life and family life with anger.

44:43 it makes me feel better to say, I think a lot of men do. I think all men do to some degree. And I think that anger comes out differently. And for me, that anger shows up in kind of emotionally disconnecting, just kind of distancing myself when I'm feeling angry or frustrated. Sometimes it comes out of me being sarcastic or kind of snappy with my kids, irritable. And I have noticed... There's a number of things that I've learned to do that have helped me with that, to manage that and start to gain more self-control over those emotions and those reactions to things. But I have noticed a pretty direct correlation to days where I train, where I lift hard. I talked about earlier picking up weights in the backyard and stuff.

45:26 That's not what I mean. Like when I actually train and I kind of gut myself out, like if I come to the shop for a workout, I'm pretty guaranteed to leave it all on the mat. You know, it's like, I'm going to sweat through my clothes. I'm going to thoroughly wring myself out in that workout. And those days that I do that, I'm less angry. Like I have less of that tension, frustration buildup and stuff. Like what have you noticed in your own life in terms of mental health? And what do you hear from long-term shop members? Is this something that they also talk about? Like talk to us about the mental health piece. Sure. Well, I think you're right on the money, struggling with anger and things like that.

46:08 I think in my experience, anger or what I've, what I've heard anyway is that anger tends to come out when you don't know how else to express your emotions. Mm-hmm. I'm far from a mental health professional. I have my own therapist, so I will say that, where I have help or a coach on my side for the mental health piece. My personal experience is that when I get my training in, that tends to make a lot of other things just sort of dissolve away as best as they can. It doesn't eliminate your problems or anything like that, or your struggles. But this comes back to one of the very first things I said, which was, when I get my training in, that makes me the best version of myself for everything else that I do.

46:53 I can now give everything else to trying to overcome whatever challenge or struggle it is that I'm dealing with. That's been most helpful for me in terms of maybe aggression or something like that. If we're lifting heavy or throwing med balls around or something like that, that is a form of expression. And you just get to take it all out on something that has no feelings or emotions and doesn't matter what happens to it. That's one of my own benefits. As far as other people that come to the shop, common theme that I've heard is that when they get their workout in, the rest of the day just seems to go by a little bit easier. Not to say that it's magical or anything like that. I think it's more methodical than anything.

47:36 I think this probably is commonplace for all of us, but I got a question around... When we make a decision to shift things up, right? So let's say, for instance, Chris and I's households, we obviously are prioritizing physical fitness differently than a lot of households. Yeah. But then your sphere affects that. It can have an impact on the motivation. I think also guys like Chris and I find ourselves in a place where you begin to look at others. And out of a really good reason, you're worried. You grow more concerned. And at times, you feel more called to be vocal to... and communicate your concern to somebody or want to try to raise additional awareness.

48:17 I mean, it's part of the reason why we bring this kind of stuff up on our shows. We do believe it's important. And we've seen the gains or advantages in our own lives from it. But obviously, you have lots of people coming into the shop. Like... How do you balance two things? One, identifying when it's appropriate to speak up versus like we can get caught up and because this is a focus for me right now, now it needs to be a focus subconsciously for everyone in our fucking sphere. So how do we balance that? I mean, you literally teach people this for a living. So I know it comes up in your sphere. And then when it is time to talk about these things... What are maybe two or three things we can keep in mind to make sure that the conversation is realistic, appropriate, and maybe comes from a more safe place?

49:04 Is that... Are you tracking with me? I think so. Let me clarify to make sure I got it. So if I'm working with one of our members or a group of our members... when is it okay to maybe comment or ask a question about something I've noticed with what may be going on in their life? Is that where you're going with that one? Well, it's like, okay, so let's say Chris and I, we're roommates, okay? We start working out all the time and I noticed that Chris is not. Drinking beers and eating French fries. Drinking beers and eating the fries, right? But then it's like on the weekend, I hear him complaining about, oh, I feel so shitty in my jeans. I'm this and that. I'm making comments about how I feel about myself and look. Yeah. It's like you want to contribute, but I also know from personal experience that that wasn't an invitation to contribute.

49:49 Right? So how do you in your own world and your family, your friends, your partner, how are you shaping that conversation? Choosing when to engage that and when not to. And then when you do choose to engage that conversation, what are some things maybe that you try to keep in mind to make it as safe and as healthy of a conversation as possible? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now I follow you. That's in drinking beers and eating French fries. I got you. So it doesn't sound like Chris, but let's say Chris is doing that. I think if I were his roommate, the first thing I would do is just, just sort of let him know like, Hey, Chris, I'm going to go get my workout. I'll see you when I get back.

50:29 That way I'm not putting any pressure on him or shaming him or anything like that. Like, hey, another round of french fries for you there, Chris. Because nobody was ever shamed into making meaningful change, right? That just makes them feel worse about themselves. And then pretty soon I would even extend an offer. Hey, Chris, I'm heading to the gym, man. You want to come with me? And then... Regardless of the answer, no shame, no pressure, just extending an offer, just being a good friend. I do think that sooner rather than later, that would have an impact on Chris in this example, where he'd be like, you know what? I do want to come to the gym with you. So thanks for the invite. I think the extent to which you do that is very dependent on what role that person plays in your life and how important they are to you.

51:19 For example, if I see a stranger on the street that I don't know, I don't think it's my place to mention anything or bring anything up. That's just inappropriate. If it's a casual acquaintance, I think most people know that I own a gym and I work out and they'll ask if they have any questions. If it's somebody that I care about, whether they're a friend, a great friend, a family member or something like that, that's where I tend to take that route that I just sort of explained in the hypothetical with Chris, where it starts as friendship and extending an offer sort of thing, but never saying you should do this or you should do that.

52:03 I think that's where I can get challenged a little bit, right? Is because I'm a challenger by nature. And so I want to like, hey, what you keep saying X, but you're not doing Y. So what, you know, what, what, what gives, you know? And I've seen like, you know, not health related, but just conversations in general, let's say with my kids, like... They know a lot of stuff already. So it's not like I told them the silver bullet that once they adapt to it, their life changes. It's just this personal threshold that we each have to cross. And I think that I can often feel convicted. Now that I'm aware that you want to change this, and I'm aware of ways that can help you change this because I'm doing them and experiencing it.

52:45 then I feel this weight or this pressure of, if I don't, I'm failing them. And I think sometimes I just struggle how to live in that space. And so I think one of the things I really appreciate about what you're saying is, it's fairly unapologetic. Like you're not owning that person's experience. You're saying, this works for me. I'm going to be open about it. I'm going to communicate what I'm doing so that they're aware of it. And then I'm going to extend an invitation and then it stops there. And I didn't hear you follow that up with. And then I moved to phase two of aggressive accountability. Like it stopped at, I sent an invitation and you're comfortable with that. And so I think that's helpful for me. You know, because if anybody's going to be motivated to get people to take action, it'd be a gym owner.

53:27 Right. I think I can respect that. Yeah, exactly. I have a direct monetary benefit from those types of interactions. But you mentioned, say, your kids, for example. Granted, my kids are really young. We don't do any structured exercise for them. It's all about play and things like that. But nutrition, for example, when we're cooking dinner, I'll make a protein, a vegetable, things like that, and I'm eating the same things that they're eating. So in that way, it's leading by example. They know when I go to the shop, I do a workout, and they get to play, but to them, it's probably like doing a workout. They think they're doing what dad's doing. And so I think it's the integrity factor to lead by example, rather than say, eat your vegetables because I told you to, or because they're good for you.

54:16 It's, hey, we're having broccoli tonight. I'm eating it too. Here's your serving. Yeah, I like that. Just mirror it. Yeah, totally. Okay, so this has been fun, man. This has been a great, great chat. Sure. Something I'd like for us to maybe wrap on is we have a lot... A lot of people listening to this podcast, they travel a lot. It's one aspect of our industry that there's a segment of it, a fairly large one that travels a lot for work. They travel to the hurricane zones and natural disasters and things of that sort. And many of our listeners have multiple business operations in different markets and territories. And so they're in hotels a lot. Brandon and I are in hotels a lot.

54:57 A lot. And it's difficult for us, for me to maintain the intensity of training or the variety of training when I'm in hotels. And that sometimes feels frustrating. I feel like I can kind of fall behind a little bit in my training. I come back to the shop and I'm lagging behind some of the others. But can you give... Most hotel gyms now have a set of dumbbells a, what do they call it? The strider machine where, you know, you're kind of like a low impact cardio machine, a bike and a treadmill. Some now will have like a machine with like a chin up rack and a stack of weights for like tricep pull downs and lat pull downs and things of that sort in a decent hotel gym.

55:40 So with a limited kind of setup, for those people that are traveling next week, we're actually heading into hurricane season. So for people that want to either not slough off their routines that they've maybe developed during the fall and winter, and now they're going into their travel season, they don't want to put that 20 pounds back on or they want to continue with their fitness. Can you describe maybe a mental model like... like a split or just an everyday full body routine that somebody could do with minimal amounts of equipment that might help them accomplish their goal of staying in shape while they're traveling irregularly over the next few months? Yeah, that's a great question.

56:21 And it's a good point that you bring up about all of that travel that's involved. I guess in that regard, I'm fortunate that I don't really do any traveling other than the occasional conference, you know, once a year, twice a year, something like that. The first thing that I would say regarding a mental model is I would manage expectations. Yeah. And there's a famous strength coach. His name is Dan John. Brilliant guy. He's also brilliant at keeping things simple. One of the things that he talks about is a check the box workout. So out of 100 workouts that somebody might do, five to 10 of them might be like earth shattering. Oh my God, I felt so great today. Like I just totally crushed. 10 to 20 of them, you might feel pretty crappy where, you know what?

57:04 Not feeling it today. I'm exhausted. My body hurts, but I got it done. The rest, you just kind of feel pretty good, but you got to do it in order to get to those five to 10 where they're earth shattering. He calls them a check the box workout. And when you're traveling and you have a hotel gym, maybe you have a set of dumbbells, an elliptical machine, something like that. If you go into it expecting to just light the world on fire with the greatest workout ever, that might be the wrong approach. Instead, it's, you know what? I'm going to make the best of what I've got here. Let's get it done so that I can go out and do my job and do a great job. Having said that, I tend to divide...

57:44 programming into some fundamental movement categories. There's a squat category, a hinge category, a lunge, a push, a pull, and then core. So kind of like six things there. And you can do all of those either with just your body weight or a machine or a minimal amount of equipment. So a squat could be as simple as just an air squat, a bodyweight squat. If you have a dumbbell or a kettlebell, you can hold it in front like a goblet squat. And now all of a sudden you've got your squat variation. For a hinge, if you had access to kettlebells, you could do some swings. That's always a great one. If not, and you just had, say, a dumbbell rack, you could do RDLs or single leg RDLs.

58:26 RDLs being... Romanian deadlifts. So like a stiff-legged deadlift or Romanian deadlift. So something to work the hamstrings on the backside. YouTube it, folks. Yeah, exactly. YouTube is your friend. For the lunge category, it could just be a walking lunge or a reverse lunge with your body weight or with dumbbells if you got them. Yeah. So that kind of takes care of the lower body. And then as far as sets and reps, I would keep it simple. I would do, call it three sets. If the only weights you have available to you are lighter, your reps need to be higher. If you have access to some heavier weights, then your reps could come down a little bit, but otherwise don't overthink it. Pushing and pulling, you've got pushups.

59:06 Those are available to you at any time in any place. If you have dumbbells, you could do things like dumbbell bench press or something like that. For pulling, pull-ups and chin-ups are always a favorite of mine because they're just so darn good. But if you had machines, you could do lat pull-downs or you could do a pulley row or something like that. And then for core, it could be as simple as planks and side planks. So I think the key takeaway there is just don't overthink it. Just check the box that you got it done. Do some things that are fundamentally good, like those movements that we just went through. And that's it. You could even do the same thing every day. The intensity would be such that it's not going to be harmful to your body to repeat it the next day or something like that.

59:53 I think that's really good to take it. I think it's the expectation piece because I'm like, oh, I got to do my bro splits and everything's got to line up with my routine that I was on on Monday when I left for the week. I like to check the box. I'm going to own that on sometimes you just get her done. And that is absolutely awesome. Like that was the right move for that day for that event. Right. For sure. And like, I mean, you guys know what I do at the gym. For example, the last time I traveled was a couple of months ago. I went to Austin, Texas. The gym had a great setup. They had an assault bike. They had barbells with bumper plates. But even though I could have done all the same stuff that I do at the shop, do you know what I did instead?

1:00:33 I did freaking curls and triceps and leg extensions because I just wanted to get a freaking pump. And so it was fun to mix it up Yeah. I'm not going to lie. Chris and I have been known to do a little pump prior to some stage time. There's nothing wrong with that. And it really helps you stand up a little straighter when you walk into the room. So don't discount. It would only be wrong not to do that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I think that's an awesome wrap up, Drew. This has been fun, man. We've kind of covered the gamut. And I think we've also given people some actionable thoughts to think about. Like what can you do tomorrow tomorrow? to get back on the horse or to develop a new incremental discipline that's going to help you get to where you want to go, right?

1:01:18 I think it's been a fruitful conversation. So thanks for joining us, man. I enjoyed it. And I will potentially see you at 4.30 this afternoon for today's WOD. That's right. I expect to see you there. Yeah. I'll let you know how many pull-ups I did so that you can try to one-up it. Oh, bro. Today is pull-up day. That's right. Video only, my man. Video only. Video or it didn't happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hang tight. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend.

1:02:00 Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.