Ep 54 - "Quiet Quitting"

0:07 Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. I don't know, what'd you think? I don't know, it was kind of serious. Should we laugh? Chris, I have an idea. I'm not going to tell you what the exact environment was while I was doing this reading over the last couple weeks. But I was multitasking, if that's a helpful hint at all for you. Yeah. It was a personal moment. It was just me, myself, and my thoughts in this particular environment. Okay, so that being said... Well, that was a little weird, man.

0:49 It's kind of a slow roll into our episode here. You know, you got to change it up. Otherwise, it gets kind of boring. Oh my goodness. So anyways, all right. So here's the topic I wanted to hammer on with you a little bit. This has been going on... I think it started to gain some title, if you will, or like some formality around the kind of the end of the first real big shutdown with our local pandemic. And it's this idea of quiet... quitting. Have you heard that term? Yes, I have. Yeah, right? It's kind of a big deal. It's been in a lot of media fronts, obviously. We're seeing magazines like Forbes and some of the others really have multiple articles from different perspectives on this idea.

1:30 I mean, one of the most recent... I think it was a gentleman who was actually an engineer posted a TikTok video where he's talking about this. And I think it has like 3 or 4 million view. So clearly... I think that was the instigator was this TikTok video. Yeah. I think once that got out then... So anyways, there's clearly some energy around this idea. And I just wanted to unpack it a little bit for folks who maybe this is... Our industry at times can be just a little bit behind some of this information. So I wanted to present this idea to our listeners. And then I just want to talk about it a little bit. Not so much because I'm trying to convey... Right, wrong, this is okay, this is not okay.

2:10 I want to get into the topic a little bit because if you're not careful, you could read some headlines and have a judgment or a thought on it. Yeah, you can easily get the wrong take on this one. You really can't. Yeah. You really can't. So anyways, that's the thing. So I guess to start with, what have you seen or experienced so far on this idea? Oh. Well, I've just seen a handful of articles. I feel like I've probably heard it mentioned on some podcasts and YouTube videos and stuff recently. So here's my take. My take is this is largely being driven by sort of the millennial emerging workforce, right? And it's just another part of, I think, this culture within that generation of which I can relate to.

2:54 I'm 42. I'm technically at... I'm born 1980s. I am technically at the tail end of a millennial. I'm a millennial by some standards, right? Yeah. There's a lot that I don't relate to, but there's a fair bit that I do. And I think one of the things that I relate to is just this valuing of life quality. I watched my grandparents, great grandparents, my own parents, really kind of do this whole grind your face off for 25 years so then you can enjoy a great retirement. Yeah. And then, of course, how many of us have watched parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, they get to retirement, they buy the $200,000 RV they've been waiting their whole life for, and then they can't walk very well.

3:39 And then they got a walker, then they have a heart condition, or they die before they get there. Yeah. And I think millennials and the generation next have watched several generations of that. And they're like, you know what? I want my life to have more meaning. Yeah. I want to enjoy my life more than just deferring all of it until retirement. So I think it's another kind of manifestation of that, that people want their work to hold meaning and value. Yeah. Yeah. Or if it's not going to. Only give it what they have to. And so I feel like this quiet quitting thing is almost a negotiation response. It's like the millennials for the last 10 years have been saying, Hey, I want my work to have more meaning.

4:24 I want to know the why behind things. I don't just want to do things because you say I have to do them. I'm not interested in obedience. I'm interested in significance. Yeah. And the workforce, in some cases, has been very slow to respond to that. And instead, we've just, hey, do it because I told you to. Hey, I'm giving you a job. You should appreciate me for giving you work. After years and years of that, this generation is saying, you know what? No. If you're not going to give me some sort of greater meaning or provide me a vision of where I'm going and what my work means and the value of it... and the opportunity in front of me, then you know what? I need to create some boundaries for myself because I'm not going to give you my whole life unless you're going to give me a vision and something of worth for me to be working towards.

5:12 No, I think you hit it on the head. It's really interesting because I think there's this competing schools of thought. And it all probably depends on how much you're actually reading on or diving into the details. And really, I think you're right. I think at its core, the concept is this idea of protecting oneself from burnout. Whatever the environmental conditions are that create that. Just this really unhealthy working yourself to the bone in an environment that may or may not be producing any kind of result for you for doing so. Yeah. But then, like with anything, people see or experience some kind of stance or perspective that...

5:55 And then there's those with probably not as righteous perspectives that jump in and leverage that to be an argument to support really laziness. Yeah, they make, yeah, yeah, yes, exactly. They make it into a religion. They make it into a philosophy that just applies to everything and every situation. And we all need to be really careful to create boundaries for our employers. I saw an article. It was by an HR thought leader or somebody that just said, it's a recognition, this new quiet quitting thing trend. It's a recognition by employees that employment is a business contract.

6:38 It's a contract. I'm doing X in exchange for Y. And I think our previous generations... accepted the scope creep that I think happens a lot of times. I think in previous generations, it's like once somebody gets in and we see that they're good and they're capable, we just keep throwing more and more work at them. Not necessarily paying them more, but more late nights, more early mornings at the office, all that kind of stuff. And there was just this culture of expectation that whatever it takes, and there's going to be some kind of payoff or that team loyalty at some point would be worth something. And now they're saying, you know what?

7:19 Oftentimes, it's not. And if it's not creating something else for me, I'm not going to do that above and beyond stuff anymore. You're paying me for full-time work. I've got 40 hours for you and that's it. Yeah. And it's just a business transaction is the way this person was talking about it. I thought, well, there's something a little bit sad about that. But I think in some cases, we've earned it as employers. Because I think sometimes we really... Many of us... And I know I've been guilty of this. It's like, I'm hiring you to do something. And whatever it takes to do that, that's what you need to put in. And it's like on its own, without me thinking about how am I equipping them and providing the resources to accomplish those things and... Am I being reasonable or generous with my rewards and my recognition?

8:04 I just think in some ways, we have created this culture as employers and leaders because we have at times exploited and taken advantage of our people. And we've stopped thinking of them as other people that have aspirations and goals and dreams and fears. And we've started to think of them as production units and human capital that we can leverage to grow our businesses. I don't think you're wrong. And I don't think we do. It's not like we talk about that out loud and it's like a conscious thing. Yeah. I think this is just something that we're learning, right? It's like over time, we become more... enlightened, if you will. We learn more about how business works and how people work. And this is just a new stage of learning for all of us.

8:46 Yeah. And I think, again, I don't think you're wrong. I think there's some environmental conditions, some working environment conditions that we have created over the decades that have certainly fueled the fire. And then the pandemic was a unique situation where all of a sudden people were away from the building and working remotely. There wasn't the same level of accountability. And all in all, they were producing the same end result, but they didn't have this kind of unspoken expectation to see you all the time and be here grinding for 10 or 12 hours because we didn't really know, right? In a lot of cases, if they were or weren't. So I think that that definitely fanned the flames. But there is something also, and I think some of this perspective has been from having conversations with my kids.

9:28 My kids are both in their 20s. And kind of full on in this Gen Z, I guess, is really where they fall. And it's interesting because these kind of social media components, what it also did is it brought to market these individuals who essentially are becoming somewhat famous for saying how little they do and how much they make. That's right, the influencer economy. There's like this marriage right now. Marriage is... There's kind of like two things coming. One is it's an instant gratification nation. We can literally get anything we want so quickly that it's eroded our ability as individuals to do something long term.

10:12 Yeah. To work for a consistent period of time to earn something. Again, that is a very broad statement. I am not saying or alluding that these generations don't. That's not what I'm saying. However, it is a group of people that have literally grown up with technology in their hand and the speed at which they can get what they want is unparalleled in any other time in our life. Right. Oh, 100% agreed. And the reality is, is that as employers, we are beginning to compete more and more and more with the gig economy. Totally. Exactly. You know, honestly, especially in larger markets. Yeah. Yeah. People can make a real living with Uber Eats, DoorDash, like 20, 25 bucks an hour.

10:55 Yeah. If they're diligent at it. And people are starting to realize that. And they're starting to have friends that do that. And even though they have to work a lot for that, it's like full-time gig to do that. It's still on their own terms. And that opportunity was never available. 10 years ago without you starting your own brick and mortar kind of business or service. Well, and I think that's kind of what's getting sold too, is that there's just opportunities abound. All you need to do is make a decision and you can be an entrepreneur and an influencer and do all these things and make a ton of money. And there's some truth to it. There is some truth to it. Yeah, and it's growing over time. And I think, yeah, so we're not making value judgments about whether this is good or bad or the country's going to hell in a handbasket or anything like that.

11:35 It's just things are way different now. Yeah, these are elements. These are variables that are affecting the way that we play the game. So it's challenging because you do have this group in our employee base that their expectations are not realistic. So what they're frustrated by, what they're pushing against isn't necessarily truth. It's this kind of accumulated perspective of influencer nation, instant gratification, right? They don't know what it's like to work for three years before some kind of really substantial movement happens in their career progression. We don't know how to work as a nation under those terms as much anymore.

12:15 And again, we can sit in a corner with this and we can write wrong or indifferent all day, but we need to play the game to win. These are rules. These are new variables. These are new parameters that are affecting our employer status and our employee base. And so we need to act accordingly. I think too, this is what's interesting to me is the miscommunication here is that it is just a reason to be lazy. And again, that's not the core thought. The core thought is, is that... People want to create personal boundaries so that they're not just giving, giving, giving, giving. And the expectation on the employer side is just give, give, give, give, give and be happy that you have a job. Yeah.

12:56 Like it's that zone, which is probably, I hate to say it, but it probably is the majority versus not. If we just look at the broad strokes employers out there and the majority of the jobs that either any of us could go get tomorrow, unfortunately, there's a strong chance that the company is going to want everything from you and they are going to very intentionally limit what they spend and provide to you. It is what it is. It is what it is, but this is interesting because I've been talking about this with my wife and even just about our kids and just relationships in general. And the older I get, the more profound this law of the universe is, is that all relationships are predicated on reciprocity.

13:38 Mm-hmm. Period. End of story. None of us, there's exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, none of us remain in a relationship where we are routinely putting out more than we're receiving. Period. And so I think in any business transaction, there is profit in the transaction. And ideally, a win-win deal is where both people are profiting. Maybe in different ways, but both people are gaining from the transaction. And I think the reality is that that's not the way that we function for a lot of generations in business. There was this leverage that employers had over their employees where they could extract more value than they were putting out.

14:23 And that's And so now it's just, it's challenging us. And I think what the opportunity in it for all of us is looking at that reciprocity and saying, am I really based on what this generation wants? And we've already hit on some of it. Some of it is just money. But I think for a lot of them, it's being a part of something bigger than themselves. They want to know what's behind the curtain. They want to understand how things work. They want to know the why behind what's being asked of them. They want to know where it's going, where it's taking them. All of those things. They also want to be a part of delivering a product or service, I think, that makes the world better. I know that sounds really foo-foo. Yeah. But I see it over and over and over again in all different areas, not just amongst liberals or conservatives.

15:07 It's like everybody in this up-and-coming generation, including me, to be honest... We're looking at our lives and we're looking at the way our parents lived and the way our grandparents lived. And we're taking on some different priorities, many of us. Hey friends, hey listeners. We're doing something a little bit different with our ads. So you've been accustomed to hearing some ads with our favorite partners and companies in the industry. Now we actually have a product page, our partners page on our website. So floodlightgrp.com forward slash partners. We want to give you a quick rundown though of the people that we're partnering with and we believe in as really go-to resources in the industry. The first one is restorationerp.com, right? ERPs are an important part of our sales process, our customer development process.

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18:05 And I think people just underestimate what happens organically with your SEO search activity when you're getting these new and active five-star reviews from our clients. And we just can't let the pedal up on that because of the effect on our business as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long as long It's a big deal. So check it out. Check out our partners page. Do business with them. You won't regret it. We're confident in that. floodlightgrp.com forward slash partners. Thanks, guys. I think in general, people do not want to have two completely different lives. No. Yeah. And that's the challenge. We keep using the term. And this group, this group that's kind of pushing or openly communicating the quiet quitting, it really is predominantly this balancing act of work and personal life balance.

18:51 And I think what's interesting is when we get under the surface... it's not necessarily a group of individuals wanting really clean separation. Like, I'm just going to give you nine to five and after that, I'm out. In some ways, it feels as if this group is responding that way because they feel as if there's not another opportunity. Yeah. But I wouldn't say that's necessarily what they want. And again, I'm speaking for people I don't even know. This is just my opinion and my perception purely. What I think it is saying, and you alluded to this, is the workforce at large right now, and I don't think this is ever going to go backwards, is their level of expectation of what they're participating is higher. Now, here's the beauty of that, honestly.

19:33 For a guy like me, and I'm naturally wired this way, and I understand that that is not the case for everybody, but I'm a real team sport guy. I like the idea that we are going to do something as a team, that we will be unified. I've got a military background. We talk about this a lot. I was part of the 82nd Airborne Division, and that is something that is so important to me. that I was part of that group mainly because it's kind of like one of the first tiers of special operations. And I know if you're a Navy SEAL and you're listening to this, we are not that. But it's like one of the first separators between the average army as a whole. Yeah, the regular Joe. This next group, right?

20:15 And so I learned a lot about small teams and what small teams were capable of when everyone was so engaged and committed to the outcome as a group. Mm-hmm. And what was so beautiful about that was this level of camaraderie with a very diverse group of people from all over the world, different states, different socioeconomical backgrounds. It did not matter. It was all for one and one for all. Two ridiculous levels, right? Yeah. And what was so difficult for me transitioning out of the military was to try to recreate or participate in that again in my place of work because I spent eight years realizing and learning that my job, my primary focus was in an environment that had this really unique trust and camaraderie around it.

21:05 I was part of something that was bigger than me that protected the world at large. There was a massive mission. Yeah. And there's nothing more of a letdown than to leave that to a nine to five where I have a list of tasks and I exchange my time for money. That's the most fucking uninspirational experience that somebody could have. Yeah. Period. So the opportunity here is if you're the kind of individual that actually does want to have relationship with their team, that they want to build something that's special, that's unique, that has engagement, this group actually is very willing to participate in that.

21:46 And again, we're talking broad strokes. Is there dirtbags in every group? Yes, of course. Mm-hmm. But as a whole, I think we really do, especially now with Gen Z, I think we legitimately have an opportunity to create something special with our people. But it's going to cause us to have to re-review what we've done in the past, what our expectations have looked like in the past, and just say, what if? We've talked about this so many times. It's not foosball tables. It's not beer vending machines. No. It's, hey, how are you today? Yeah, that makes me think of a great... Yes. That makes me think of a great story. One of our clients was a hotel GM.

22:27 This is awesome. I can say his name's Scott. Yeah. Yeah. So Scott had 150 FTE, 150 employees at a hotel. I mean, big hotel. I was talking to him. And one of the things he mentioned is in the hotel business, he has extremely low turnover. Yeah. Which is super rare. He's had a core group of like 30 plus, which is just unheard of in that industry. Yeah. And I said, well, how do you keep people? Because at that time, I had a team of direct reports. We had a really growing team and we were struggling at intervals, with turnover and stuff. And I'm like, what is it? He said, you know what? I just really care about my people. And I said, well, can you double click on that for me? Yeah, what does that look like?

23:08 Because I think I do too, but... And he said, well, let me give an example. He said, one of my housekeepers just had really bad teeth and was like, and didn't have, our dental insurance is garbage, just like everybody else's. And he's like, she needed a lot of work done, three, $4,000 worth of stuff. She was like in constant pain. wouldn't smile because I just had some broken teeth and stuff like that. And he's like, I've tried to create an environment with my employees when I bring them on where I tell them, look, if you ever need something, you come talk to me. And he's like, I set that expectation with every employee I brought on. And she came to me one day and she said, I just don't know what to do. it's distracting. I'm in constant pain. I have this toothache.

23:50 Anyway, you told me to come to you if I ever needed help. And I can't afford to get this done, but I just don't know if there's anything you guys could help me do. And he was able to figure out, one, he was able to get approved with his owner group to pay for part of it and then break out the remaining to have come out of her check over six months to where she could totally afford it. She was able to get the work done immediately. And he's like, she'll never leave me. Yeah. She'll never leave. And he's like, you know, all in. And not for any negative, like, I owe you, but just appreciation. Oh my gosh. Because she felt cared for. Exactly. She felt cared for as a person. Yeah. Yeah.

24:31 And, you know, when he told me that, I just thought, wow, that's awesome. And you say, well, you can't do that for everybody. Well, maybe you can. Maybe you're not doing a couple grand for somebody's teeth and you're making payments and all that kind of stuff. But you really don't know what that burden is going to be. But is it worth it? So for a couple thousand dollars and a little bit of payroll deductions and whatever, a little bit of hassle factor, he just secured that relationship with that employee forever, potentially. You know what? I think you touched on something really interesting here. So you're talking about the fact that he had 150 employees, roughly. That's a big company. If we just looked at that as a restoration company or a home service business...

25:12 That's a really substantial outfit, guys. We're talking millions and millions and millions a year in revenue. And I think that it's just so telling if we're honest with ourselves. If an organization with that many employees can still be creative and find ways to care for their employees in a really special way, There's really no excuse for us if we have 30, 20, 30, 10 employees. The challenge is though, it's a lot of work. Leading that kind of relationship is work. And for a lot of us, if we're honest, it puts a level of stress on us that some of us may feel overwhelmed by, right? Yeah. Like there's this whole additional layer of relationship that's required for me as a business owner or as a leader.

25:53 There's just a reality that you don't have to do that. Yeah. Yeah. You're likely going to be one of those teams, though, that just struggles to keep people on because you're just living too much of a transactionary relationship with your staff. And again, it's not a matter if we, you know, I made this comment to my son last night. Our agreement status does not make something right or wrong. And we need to remember this. What do you mean? Whether or not I agree with somebody's perspective, straight up does not make it right or wrong. We got to be honest with ourselves. Okay? Your perspective and your opinion is that. Yeah. Okay? Nothing wrong with it. But be careful that we don't look at our agreement status on something on whether it's right or wrong.

26:35 We have a scenario right now where we have an entire generation of our workforce. It is the largest workforce coming into effect right now. And from their perspective, relationship depth with their employer is important. If you agree with that or not, it's relevant. It doesn't change the fact that that's their perspective. And I would say you and I continue to see, and we see examples of this in our own client base and inside the industry, that the ones who are being aggressive and proactive of moving towards this generation and identifying ways to adapt and flex their own leadership behaviors and their priorities and their language and all that stuff are winning.

27:17 They're winning all the time. It's just like this guy, Scott, He has literally... So he's part of a hotel group that has, I don't know, 22 different large format hotels all over the country. It's a company that's headquartered out of New York City. It's a very successful hotel portfolio. He is the most profitable property in the entire portfolio. It's widely respected and regarded. He's incredibly... But if you look at his operations, he's a mentor of sorts. I had a lot of these conversations with him. If you look at how he organizes and focuses his time, he often, in fact, we interviewed him in our master course. He's a great hour-long interview in there.

27:58 But I believe he even talks about it there as he leads by walking around. He does very few appointments during the day. He doesn't schedule meetings for himself outside of his normal conference calls with his owners and whatever. He doesn't really schedule meetings. he walks around his property and he leads and he connects, he engages with his people, engages with his downline. Oftentimes he has standup meetings and hallways with his downline leaders all the time. Yeah. And when you ask him about his focus from a management and success perspective... He's like, look, my job... He calls himself the playground manager. Yeah. He's like, my job is to make this place a good place for people to come to work in, an inviting, hospitable place for our guests to stay and be.

28:42 And he said, and when I'm totally oriented around that, we all win. Yeah. It's interesting because not that long ago... Well, it hasn't come out yet. So it'll be coming out in the next couple of weeks. is the coaching culture episode. And I think why I was so motivated, probably subconsciously, to do that episode, and we wrote an article on it for CNR is... You did. Yeah. And it was good. It was fun. It's one of these components. That's something that if you put that in place within your organization, and what I'm coaching culture without rehashing the whole thing is... It's this idea that you're intentionally pouring into and developing your employees, your peers, your downline team members. There's a focus on that that's intentional and expected in each role within the organization.

29:27 So if you're a department manager, if you're a GM, if you're a sales manager... A major part of what you are hired and tasked to do is to pour into develop your downline people, build connection. And what's interesting about that is that some of the feedback that we've gotten over the years from lots of different types of organizations, some that we were directly engaged in, some not, is that we've got a lot of feedback was that the beauty in this coaching culture is the ability to speak truth into somebody's life and help them move the needle, personally and professionally. Not everybody's ready. We know that. And what's frustrating is oftentimes we're in scenarios where less are ready for that than are.

30:08 But the point is the same is that our Gen Zers, my son is a perfect example. He wants to be coached and mentored. He wants to learn. He wants to know more. He wants to have a wider perspective. And I think we've slid into a place where we're making such broad generational assumptions that we're grouping people into a category that's just not a real look at them as a whole. What they're asking for is relationship. They don't want to show up, barely get talked to and take a check and go home. You can do that. You can build an organization just like that. You can make millions and millions of dollars. You will have turnover like crazy and it may actually become almost impossible to recruit at some point.

30:50 if the generations continue to develop the way that they are right now. And so it's a real opportunity to build something worth building, where you have a purpose as a leader in this organization. And that purpose is to develop young people, young leaders, and pour into them and give them a reason to want to be with you until the end of days. If you do it, it's this amazing space where you really value what you've built as a person. It's the kind of stuff without getting crazy religious or anything. It's the kind of business that when you're done, you look back and you go, that was an effort worth putting out. Oh, yeah. It honored me. I respect myself for building that.

31:32 I feel like I didn't waste my life that I spent it doing something to enhance those lives around me. It's beautiful. It's a legacy building type of business. And this generation is hungry for it if you'll develop the systems, the practices, and the attitudes to do it. But if you don't, you're going to have people quietly quitting. And they may be there every day. They may fill that seat, but they are not going to give you anything compared to what they could. If you met them in a space that said, you're valuable, I hear you and I want to help you in more than just how well you process a TPS report. Yeah. Right? TPS reports. Off his face, man.

32:13 All right. Oh, that's classic. No, man. Yeah. I think a good theme for this is reciprocity. We've, for a lot of generations, we're kind of new to this business and capitalism when you think about it. Right? For the last like 200 years, this has been this Western American capitalist experience of scaling companies and all this kind of stuff. And I think we're just learning as we go. Every generation has been a little bit different. But it's still, at the end of the day, it comes back to reciprocity. We don't stay in marriages, like some of us do, and it's sad. We stay in marriages where one person's giving a lot and the other person's not. And we stay in all kinds of relationships that way. We know how that feels.

32:53 It's just this law of the universe. This is how we interact as humans. And I think sometimes we forget it in businesses. We make it a transaction. And in transaction where we want as much as we possibly can get for this dollar value. Yeah, it's true. And so we're starting to experience some pushback and say, Hey, this is not a great reciprocal relationship here. Yeah. And it isn't always just about bottom dollar like we talked about, right? That dental thing, the answer was not, I need to make a ton more money. Yeah. And so I need a big raise so I can afford my teeth. It's, Hey, I've got this problem. Can you help me with this problem? And then I can get back to work. You know, that's a good point. And I don't want to overlook this. And we kind of direct our dialogue more at this key leader-owner perspective, just because our vast majority of our leaders probably fall in that category.

33:38 But you know what? We have folks from all shapes and sizes in our industry listening to this show. And I would have to say as an encouragement that if you're one of these individuals that's looking for a deeper relationship at the place that you work... remember that there's this awesome opportunity to lead right back up that chain of command. It may not be a scenario where the owners of that business or the manager of your department or whatever doesn't want that or doesn't care. You got to realize for years and years and years, we've been taught by HR lawyers and pretty shitty HR scenarios that don't touch anything personal, boy. Don't cross that line. Keep it super neutral and mechanical. And everybody gets It's the same.

34:19 Everybody's the same. One size shoe fits all. And it's sad. Right? But if you're an employee, remember that just like for you, there's things that have affected your environments and shaped your perspectives on how you act and respond. The same thing has happened to the generations prior. Same thing has happened for those leaders that are in positions right now where in a lot of cases, they've been feared into really cutting off this kind of depth of relationship with their employees. Yeah. And so this is a team sport. It is going to require that this generation talks, communicates, is more clear on asking what they want and leaning in to, hey, it would really be helpful if, right?

35:02 And then at the same time, I think we have to encourage employers to very carefully and with guidance begin to blur as much as that line that we can in a safe way. And please do not refer to anything we've said as HR advice. Talk to your HR. Yeah. Talk to your attorney or your SHRM certified HR professional. Yeah, I think that's good. And also speaking to today's employee, worker, project manager, whomever you are, I think there's always a healthy reflection too on what am I putting into this relationship? Yeah. Because we can easily take an emotional posture of, they're underpaying me or they don't recognize me or they don't value me. And so therefore, I'm going to put a shitty product out.

35:44 Yeah. We have to self-reflect and be like, okay, am I to the letter of the law doing this punch list of chores that I'm supposed to do? But where's the quality? What am I contributing in this? Have I allowed myself because of cynicism or pessimism for me to start to betray myself in terms of what kind of person am I being? What sort of professional am I bringing to this role? Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to get swept up into a culture of my employers taking advantage of me and over time, start to lose track of what am I putting out? Yeah. What am I putting into this? Or am I putting out the bare minimum because I'm waiting for you to show me it's worth putting more?

36:29 Which if you're honest with yourself as an employee, think about that. Yeah. You can barely trust me with little, but at the same time, I'm expecting you to trust me with a lot. That doesn't really make any sense either. It's true. So I think it goes both ways. And again, it comes back to reciprocity. It was such a simple law, right? It's just that all of our human relationships are oriented around giving and receiving, right? It's like, what am I giving? Really? What am I giving? Am I... Am I really bringing the level of energy and focus and creativity and hustle and earnestness that I projected in my interview that I said, this is what you get when you get me? Am I really bringing that? Yeah. Because sometimes, I know there's been times in my career where I wasn't.

37:11 And I was frustrated for whatever reason. Somebody said something to me that was really offensive. And I felt like, you know, took away from my value or something. And I reacted out of that. And I started essentially being the person that they were treating me as, right? Like, I was not bringing all the stuff that I said I was going to bring either. And so it goes both ways. It goes both ways. But I'm with you, man. I think the other theme here is there's a huge opportunity. The people that we see... that are really leaning into this. How do we care for our people? How do we see them as people and families? Like one of our clients, they have this wall, this family wall. And I think I love, I freaking love this idea. They have a wall in a hallway and it's not employee photos, it's employee family photos.

37:55 And we were sitting in on a production meeting they had or it was an all company safety meeting. I forget what it was. And the GM was just talking about Guys, don't forget why we're doing what we're doing. When you go out and collect on AR or you go out and do a final punch list walkthrough and you do a really nice job for a client, you're putting food on the table, not just for you. I was like, Oh, that's so good. That's the perspective we need to make sure we're maintaining. Right? Couldn't agree more. Yeah, couldn't agree more. All right, my friend, let's wrap it up. Thanks again, as always, for joining us, guys. We'd really be excited for you to help us share this message and help us grow the listenership, obviously, that keeps the dream alive.

38:41 This is a real passion project for us. Share it with a friend, a colleague, a peer, somebody in your sphere of influence, if you believe you've been getting some value from the show. And if you have been, if you wouldn't mind stopping and giving us a review, that's so powerful. It's so helpful for us. Chris and I made a commitment that moving forward, we're going to be a little bit more diligent about asking for your guys' support and help with that. It's not easy for us, but we know it's important. Yeah. And then along the same lines, some of you listening to this are really trying to grow your commercial sales. It's like virtually everybody in the industry is trying to figure that out. If you're looking for a turnkey solution to onboard new sales reps or to equip your existing sales reps to more effectively chase commercial business, it's a different ballgame.

39:26 I think we all know that and recognize that. But where do you turn? And that's why we created the Commercial Sales Master Course. It's 10 hours of very intentional training. It's a framework. Your sales rep doesn't need to reinvent the wheel. The system that they use selling for XYZ company before they came to you may not be appropriate for restoration. It's a different game. So if you're looking for a way to equip them, check out the Commercial Sales Master Course. You can find that on our website, floodlightgrp.com. And you can scout us out before you buy anything by checking out both Brandon and I's LinkedIn pages as well. We post all kinds of content and stuff there. So thank you very much. And we'll see you up. Floodlight Friday live streams on LinkedIn, 9 a.m. Pacific on Friday mornings.

40:10 Another way you can catch some free stuff from us. So free content, free values. There we go. Till next time. Bye. All right, everybody. Heath, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow. Formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.