Ep 16 - Self Awareness: Keeping Your Eyes On The Horizon

0:02 Welcome back to another episode of the MRM Podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we discuss business, life, and legacy. It's business time. How you doing, my friend? Well, I was thinking about that actually in the shower where all my good thoughts happen. I was like, you know, I actually want to start answering that question more honestly because you seem to open up every podcast with that. How you doing, man? Well, let me think about it. Let me give you an honest answer. Isn't that what we do though socially? We just ask people and then we don't listen for the answer. Isn't that what we do? It's like you're not really asking how I'm doing. I will tell you how I'm doing. So my wife and I had kind of a weekend. So we've got three kids. We've been married 20 years. Maybe there's other people listening that can relate to those stats.

0:45 And we just got totally sideways on a number of subjects. It was one of those things where we were just off as a couple. And by Sunday evening, we'd kind of talked through it and we were back in a good place. And I was just reflecting on Monday morning. with just how dark it can feel sometimes when you're in the midst of that conflict. And then how it can turn around and it's as if it didn't really even occur. It's like by Monday, you're back to normal. We love each other again. We like each other. And it's on. And I was just thinking, wow, I really need to become... more mentally tough.

1:27 I think it's part of it. It's just being able in the moment to recognize, okay, this too shall pass. This story in my head about my wife and the situation with raising kids, just all the things that we were sort of missing each other on. It was difficult in the moment for me to have perspective of... Instead, it started to become these stories of this is always the conflict we have. This is never going to change. And of course, none of this is coming out out loud. It's just in my head, right? I just get racked with all these thoughts about what does this mean? We're always wrestling with this topic. And it just starts to feel like forever.

2:08 And so, I don't know. I started thinking about that. It came into the week... mulling over that. And then of course, as we do, we're working with clients who are encountering some of those same kinds of stories. And I'm just reminded that, yeah, it's not just me and my wife. This is just like we have the same dynamic with people at work. And when stuff goes wrong at the shop and with our MIT team, somebody does this and all the stories in our head just flood in and It's really easy to get caught up in the issue of the day. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get it. I mean, we had a client express a story, right?

2:49 Oh, yeah. That's kind of a similar scenario. I was investing time and energy. I was doing X, Y, Z. It really just didn't work out the way that I anticipated. And basically, it was being really... honest about the fact that it just took the wind out of his sails. He spent all this time, all this energy, and really the net result from that effort felt like a big goose egg. Or worse, it felt like there was actually damage in the relationship. So now it didn't produce a result that he wanted, but it just didn't get the way he wanted. It ended badly. It's like, what do you do when that happens? How do you get back on the horse? Now, don't get me wrong. This individual is going to get back on 15 horses and kill it.

3:30 But But it is, it's true. He was just being honest about the impact of that being blown around almost by the... It's like the conflict that my wife and I had, it didn't rise to the occasion of, are we going to get a divorce? Sure. And by the way, I'm not making fun of that, right? I mean, that's a thing I think all married people, if we're honest, we contend with. What does this mean that we always struggle with this conversation or this topic or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. And I have no doubt, like your example of that client, right? That had this thing fall through that they'd really invested a lot of themselves into. Yeah. It's not like we're going to stop. Right. But I think those things aren't going to deter us. I'm not going to divorce my wife and that guy's not going to close his business down.

4:13 Yeah. But I think sometimes we can waste a lot of energy and time by staying in that place a little too long. Yeah. Yeah. And it just brings up this question for me of how do I transition out of that back into like being grounded, feeling empowered, feeling focused? Yeah. How do I make that transition a little bit faster? Because the way I felt coming out of the weekend was, gosh, man, I love my wife. And it's like we just gave up a weekend. being lost in these stories. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just being blown around by the environment. Just being tossed around by just the emotions of it, the frustration feelings and that both she and I were feeling.

4:54 And just you're at this kind of loggerheads, you know, that old term that people use, like we're just kind of button heads. And like, how do we transition from that? How do we notice that more quickly and pull back out? And like we were talking with this client of ours, How do you hang in that moment long enough to understand what happened and to learn from it? The same as my weekend with my wife. How do I hang there long enough to really understand what's going on? Right. Why are we here? Yep. Why is this coming up for us? And what's my role in it? All those things. Long enough to understand, but then be able to transition back out, refocus on the long-term objective.

5:37 Yep. And then get moving again. Shoot and move, yeah. Right? Yeah. So the Knowledge Project, you and I are like true believers. Awesome podcast. And they recently did an episode with the now ex-CEO of, shoot, Campbell's Nabisco. I mean, big players, right? And I think his... I'm going to do probably a little bit of butchering here. But long story short, he was doing a lot of this... in the mid to late 90s. And what he was doing as a CEO is he was really focused on developing culture and he talks very openly about this idea of he always felt that people were either, he called it the Vince Lombardi of leadership where it's all about accountability and hardcore expectation, or his term the lovey-dovey Covey, right?

6:24 Like Stephen Covey. Yeah, reference to Stephen Covey. Seven Habits. Yeah. Yeah. Like super employee engagement. More soft skills, leadership behaviors. Yeah. And so he was in this very... Probably a climate that did not understand the value of that very well. Now I think this whole idea of culture conversations and stuff is much more prevalent. Yeah. So he was just referring back to the days of when he was trying to forge this new trail and doing massive recoveries with these giant companies, companies with tens of thousands of employees. And this is a quote from the transcripts of the show. He says, we were being challenged to do things that just were more substantial than I had ever been challenged before. And I realized I needed to get better anchored in what I believed in so that I could have the courage of my convictions to deal with all of it in a way where I would survive because it was challenging.

7:13 Yeah. And so it was like this idea, like what I pulled out of that was this idea of, he had to find ways to be so in tune with the bigger picture, the vision, the mission that he had for his business, for his goals, for what he was spending his energy and time on. He had to be so anchored in his conviction of it that the things around him didn't shake him, right? Because basically, we all know that these things are going to happen. And I think it does relate to what you're talking about. It's this idea of us. It's so easy for us to get rattled by the real life and environmental things that we're being faced with in the moment that it can totally detract from our ability to stay focused, to stay on target.

7:59 And so we see things like this in businesses. We face it now, right? Where we, if something happens, it's exciting. Oh, and we just feel the flywheel building momentum and we're all pumped up. Then we have a reality check, right? Somebody gives us a pat on the head and reminds us a little bit of where we are at in the journey. And then all of a sudden it's like, how long does it take you and I to get out from that? Yeah, to recover from those setbacks. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that goes right back to what our friend was talking about with his business is like, what's the answer? The answer is, I think that we try to develop strategies to get better and more rooted in our conviction so that those events don't shake us up as much.

8:40 Because the reality of it is they're coming. Yeah. And if we're really stretching ourselves and working towards any kind of goal that's beyond just a strong stretch, we're going to have some environmental conditions that kick our ass, right? So what do we do? You know, I think the other side of that idea that... Was it James Conant? What was his name? Oh, Doug. Doug Conant. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other side of that piece that he's talking about, that he had to develop a much more crystal clear picture of where am I going? What am I trying to do? What's the big vision? So he can come back to that. I think we also have to accept that when really good things happen along the way, I think there's an element of managing our excitement around little wins as well.

9:27 You and I talked about this the other day. We had a challenging situation that we were working on with a client. And it worked. It kind of came together. We had a really key conversation and all these things fell into place. And I was just reflecting later in the day just how good I felt. I felt so good. My anxiety had fallen off. I was excited. I was re-energized. And I commented to you that the other day. Because we had just kind of resolved that thing that we'd been struggling with this one situation, trying to help the customer get breakthrough, etc. And anyway, so this thing, we had some breakthrough. And I was like, you know, there's a part of me, obviously, that I'm really glad. I mean, it's not that you're not glad about the breakthrough.

10:08 Right. But it's like I had been investing so much in making the situation okay, rather than just being okay, as I moved through the situation. Does that make any sense? Yeah, I think so. It's a little heady. It's a little heady. It's a little heady. But I was just kind of connecting with this. And I think I can look back over my career and just see so many... I'm an emotional guy. I think it's what drives me. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are. It's very visionary driven. And of course, so much of what we do is relational and we also have our egos all tangled up in all this. But I just realized I think part of becoming more mature as a leader is not being so bounced around by the waves.

10:51 It's like when I deep sea fishing, I have a love-hate relationship with deep sea fishing. I love the adventure of it. And I hate the fact that I end up chumming the waters for everybody else. Thankfully, I have good friends and they always split the catch with me, but I usually end up just feeding the ocean. But what do they tell you? What does the captain say? We start to get sick. Eye on the horizon. Eye on the horizon, man. Yeah. Never worked for me, but theoretically, you get less sick that way. But I think there's something there. If we allow ourselves to just become so exuberant about the last great thing that happened, it lifts us out of the trench. It's like, oh, find me a win. Well, then what are we telling ourselves about the losses?

11:33 You know what I mean? It's like we're preparing to be depressed. Things are going wrong. Things are stressful. Things, there's anxiety. There's stuff happening. I don't know. I just think that's some of the leaders that I most admire. I think Doug is kind of giving a window into this a little bit in that podcast episode. I think there's a skill of managing our emotions. Yeah. of saying in a difficult situation or even a great situation, you know, I'm not going to get on that train. Like, and I think that's where the big picture comes in is that it's good to celebrate our wins, but it's also really good to, to get a fresh look at the horizon and say, okay, this is great.

12:14 this is another step in the right direction, but we've still got 300 miles to drive here. Yeah. Because I think sometimes we can celebrate the small wins so much that it almost takes our team off of the prize. Like, no, the real prize is still out there, guys. We're gunning for it. Yeah. Great. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I do. It's kind of a mixed bag here. There's almost an element of the calm in the storm. Yeah. Right? Is this... When we're in the midst of it, there's got to be a way that we're building the foundation, that we're improving on our skill set, our mindset, that we're not getting so swept up in the things around us. In the thing of the day. And it's high or lows. what you're saying. It's this idea of we don't let the highs get so high it distracts us.

12:57 Yeah. And we don't let the lows get so low that it distracts us. Exactly. These are small battles, but the war is being won out there on the horizon. And you know, this reminds me of Good to Great by Jim Collins. I think it's Good to Great or It Might Be Built to Last, his first book. Yeah. But he talks about in the extraordinary companies, like the 5 or 10, and they profile like 40 companies or something. And the 5 or 10 that just were off the charts successful, almost across the board, they had a battle rhythm to their company. They called it the 20-mile march. They called it just getting first downs. None of these companies were this explosive, emotional, swing for the fences, celebrate the grand slams.

13:45 They were not about that at all. Five yards. Five yards at a time, baby. Yeah. 20 mile march. Yeah. The most successful companies had CEOs that were just all about the next down. One more down. One more down, closer to the end zone. One more down, one more down. It was all about progress. It wasn't about leapfrogging. It wasn't about taking over the industry and these really charismatic leaders that you kind of see these fire breathers. Wow, let's go grab that, take that territory. And no, it was... It were these enduring companies that had a very clear vision and they just marched forward in step together. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

14:25 And the reality of it is, is that sounds awesome on paper. I know. It sounds awesome on paper. I am so not naturally wired that way. I mean, I, Highs are high, lows are low. We're in or we're out. I feel like that's the mind space that I spend more time consistently in, at least on a subconscious level. It's different when I'm being super proactive. And obviously, we spend a lot of our time now trying to be in as much of that space as possible. But certainly by default wiring, I don't even understand how that's possible. Yeah. through hard work, you start to identify some of it, but it's not natural. And I think one of the first things that pops in my mind when I hear you say things like managing the high and low, especially when we're talking about the high is, oh gosh, but I never want to get to the point where I'm not good at celebrating the small wins.

15:16 I agree. Right? And I know that's not what you're saying. It's just... without becoming boring, there is this opportunity to get closer aligned with a stable march. Yeah. Right? Like not allowing ourselves to just move so to and fro based on our external environments, but at the same time, not becoming dead men walking. Well, I think part of it too is... When it's grind, grind, grind, grind, grind to get the win, it's like the 20 mile march idea, right? We've all heard the phrase. We've all probably said it. Hey, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah. And I think when we get so swept up in the emotions of the business, good or bad, we're basically communicating to the team.

16:01 This is a sprint. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's very short-sighted. It's very short-sighted. It's all about the thing in front of us rather than like when Rachel was on the podcast and she was talking about visioneering, right? And creating this really vivid picture. Well, she wasn't just talking about a charismatic leader, just constantly talking and jabbering about the cool thing in front of them. She described a process of Her doing the visioneering and her team and then creating a process for other people to speak into that vision, to own it. Yeah. And then everybody's on the same page and everybody has a very clear picture of where we're going. And so I think it's, that certainly helps. Yeah. I think that's a big part of the process is creating a clear vision that not only you have in your head, right, but your team has.

16:47 Yeah. So that when you get those big wins, we can celebrate the wins for what they are, which is progress. Yeah. Yeah. And when we have the losses, we can reflect on the losses. We can process them, try to learn from them and just realize, okay, well, that was just the speed bump on the road to where we're headed. Right. And we don't get so hung up in it. Right. And as far as how do you do this? Because I'm in it. I'm saying basically I struggle. I'm emotional sometimes. Yeah. Which I think we don't talk a lot about in our business, but I think a lot of us, this is an emotional business. It's a draining business. It's a 24 seven operation, even, even as consultants, right? I mean, we got, I remember I had a client call me on a Sunday morning. You remember this? I told you about this. We had a client call us because our one-on-one clients can call us anytime they want.

17:30 Essentially. I'm not kidding. I'm on the toilet in the bathroom. I just got, my coffee is brewing in the French press. And my client says, Chris, what is a Sunday morning? Chris, what do you do on Sundays when you're not working? Like, how do you, how do you not work? And I just said, well, that's an interesting question. What do you mean? Like, how do I relax? You know? You did start this story by saying you were on the toilet, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know exactly. I love you, dude. Let me help you, dude. Seriously. Yeah. So... but I think it is a tumultuous business.

18:13 You know, if we're honest with ourself, it's a tricky one. I think business in general, business, I want you to business leading a business. We're working with people, right? Can I offer something here? Okay. I'm not saying this is the thing, right? Right. But it's hard for me not to hear us say things like this out loud and not go back to some real foundational things that we believe in. And what it reminds me a lot of, especially going back to his comment, Doug's comment on the Knowledge Project show, is this idea of if he's saying part of what helps us do that is get really clear on our conviction. Yeah. Yeah. I think that starts with us understanding the time that we put in to analyze our company and our vision and our goals for ourselves as professionals, right?

19:06 So for leaders and business owners, this idea of really taking the time to do the headwork, not build a pro forma, not build a business plan. Yes, all that is important. But the fluffy stuff, go find that... Go out on a camping trip. Go on a fishing trip. Go get on the dirt bike. Do what you need to do to process what it is that you want to see your company become. You and I believe that that's an important step of business operation because we believe that lays the foundation for who it is I'm trying to hire. That becomes the foundation for the culture that you're developing, i.e. the company that you're going to now spend many years and many, many, many hours of your life building and dedicating yourself to.

19:53 The reason that's so important to do that is because you need to understand your convictions. And I think that that's part of where people can develop those convictions. I would like to say that even in our consulting business, you and I have done this phenomenal job of stopping the world around us and really spending enough time focusing on where are we going specifically. Now, you and I do a lot of that ad hoc because we're just kind of naturally wired that way. But we could even do a better job of getting crystal clear on the convictions that we have about our business. And that in turn could help us get stronger at letting the lows not get so low and letting the highs not get so high.

20:39 Just understanding that this is a small battle and a big war that we're fighting. And so I know that's really utilitarian. Yeah. But there is a reality that if we don't spend any time really drawing out and mapping what it is that we're excited about and where we're going and why we're going to go there, then I don't really understand or see a way for us not to get swept up in all the stuff. Yeah. Right? Because it's hard for you to look out on the horizon if you haven't established where the horizon is. Yeah. And I think that that's a big part of what we do when we... think through this. When we visioneer, as we had shared with us, as you think about your company, as you dream about it...

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25:08 So go check them out at value.getinsights.org backslash fcg. I think what we're hitting on a little bit is ultimately self-awareness, which we toss around a lot in business circles. I think it's becoming more... a thing that people realize they need more of, emotional intelligence, right? It's this other buzzword. I think you can't lead other people well until you lead yourself well. Yeah. That's been the ceiling for all of us, you know, in different stages of our business. Like we're the ceiling on our business. Yeah. And there's really no way to avoid that. So I think, and we're talking about sort of managing the emotions of our work and whether you're a business owner or you're a mitigation manager of senior tech, right?

25:53 And you're going out and doing the work. I think as owners and leaders, we forget that we really need to understand what's going on inside our own head and learn how to manage ourself before we can model that for our team. If we want to create a better work culture and environment, a growing business where we're growing people and all that kind of stuff, I think first we have to be really tuned in. What's going on inside me at any given moment? Mm-hmm. And I think that's something that all business owners and leaders struggle with, right? Because there's just so many things tugging at our sleeve, right? It's just so easy to just kind of tamp it down, push it off, ignore it, have a couple whiskey and Cokes at the end of the night, just sort of dampen it all down and get to sleep and do it all over again.

26:43 And we all have some sort of go-to that helps us push those things off or tamp it down and And yet I think until we really start to recognize what's going on inside us in the moment, we it's really hard to change our behavior. It's hard to model something different for our team too. Yeah. You know? Dude, so I was thinking about something today. So we had somewhat of a sales call today, right? With a new prospective client. And I'm going somewhere with this, so hang with me. So I was thinking about the interaction with them. And this is our second exchange with each other. This, we got to see more of the team this time.

27:24 And just for clarity here, this is family dynamic. So this is a multi-generation company. This is mom and dad. Dad specifically started it or bought it and developed into what we're seeing right now. And now we're seeing the boys coming up and they're getting ready to take the reins. And I remember just you and I... One of the first things we said when we got off the phone or off the meeting was this respect that you felt. These two guys are not faking it. They respect what he's built. The one son has talked about wanting to join the team since he was a little guy.

28:07 He's been bought into this idea since the beginning. So here's a picture of a family-owned business, which... Dude, this business is hard in and of itself, let alone all the family dynamic. And really what we walked away from was this perspective of there is cohesiveness, unity, They're not perfect. Otherwise, they wouldn't be entertaining a call with us. Right. But there's cohesiveness. There's respect. There is an admiration for the way that things have been done. Okay. So that's one picture. We also this week took a call or had a call about a scenario where... I want to be careful here, but a leader did what a lot of us do, got caught up in the moment, and responded physically, emotionally, whatever, based on the environmental conditions.

29:03 that left some toxic residue on the team. So we can circle back around later. We can have some apologies. We can say, oh, that's just so-and-so and that's who they are. But those are two very different looking pictures. Right? And it's hard for me not to look at those two situations in context of what you're saying right now and go, I would much rather be that first one. I want to be leading my team in such a way that I am practicing enough emotional restraint that my team over time is going to look back and say, man, I really respect that. It's not respect it, but it's not even respect it and.

29:43 Yeah. It's just, I respect that. I want to do that. I want to be that. I want to admire that. Right? Mm-hmm. And so I think it points towards... This isn't necessarily the cure, but I think it points towards the validity of how important this is. And one of the differences between these two entities is that when we were asking questions to the first group, the family owned, he was very clear on one thing. It was like the one thing that he started the conversation around when we said, what's important to you? from the very beginning of him establishing his company, it was all about culture. He did not say, I wanted a feeling of a family-owned business. He said that culture was critically important to him.

30:27 And what I'm seeing in execution, and this is a number of years later, he must have done something to establish what the horizon line looks like. And he's consistently marched towards that horizon. And it shows in the way that that team works together. Again, they're not perfect. They've got all the same things that we all need to work on, that we seek help and we seek partnerships to overcome. But man, what a testament of how important it is to be focused on what you're talking about. Yeah. One of the things we're talking about is stability. Stability. Yeah. There's a health and stability and trust. I called it love and respect.

31:08 I called it out. You mentioned it to them. I know. I know love. Everybody loves that when I get all touchy feely, but there is like, you could feel it. We're on zoom and you could see it and understand that there was a stability, stability, there's an underlying health in that family business. That's a good word. Right? Yeah. So, yeah. Dude, I love how you tie that together. That's a great example of what we're talking about. Yeah. So how do we get there? Right? We've kind of poked around the answers a little bit. I think there is some element of us... Doing the hard, probably in many ways, it's probably even harder because you got to do this solo. There's no one really holding you accountable to it. Yeah, you got to do it.

31:48 Right? Yeah. There's no one telling us to go out and get away from the distractions and just dream a little bit. Just focus. And a lot of us forego this because there's things we need to do right now. There's things nagging and pulling on us right now. And it's more rewarding to get that box checked. There's some instant gratification of me just going out, putting out that fire and doing what I need to do. But I think there is a calling for us to go out and really take the time to set the stage for what... And we keep going back to this horizon idea, but I think it's a great one. I actually went out like two weeks ago and got totally sick, but we caught a bunch of salmon, so it was worth it. Yeah. It is this idea of what do we do to establish the horizon?

32:29 It's almost like in a weird way, I think about those bumpers that you can pull up when you go and play... Bowling. Bowling, right? Do we need some kind of marker? Right. Just look, they can be pretty wide. You may not be able to see all of it in the same look. Yeah. But you got to be able to look out in front of you and see something to help you know that you're on track. Yeah. And I don't know that we can really do that if we don't do the head work to establish what we want to build and why we're building it. And the why is probably the most important part, right? Yeah, yeah. So anyways, I think that is an element. I think the other piece you touched on was just this self-awareness. We've got to have a grip. those two examples, does the one that had the blow up even understand the weight of that?

33:14 Yeah. Like, do they know what caused it? So in that same circumstance, I asked some deeper questions and I was able to just kind of loosely say, oh, well, I wonder if really this is the issue. That's what had them kind of fired up this week. Mm-hmm. And it's just like any of us. We're worried about incoming workflow. We're worried about cash flow. We're worried about all these things. And so in a moment, we get caught up in it. Yeah. We flip out. We lose our shit. But really, it wasn't the thing. Yeah. It's this bigger thing over here that rightfully so I'm stressed out as, as a business owner, as a leader. But because I didn't have the awareness in that moment, I let that thing become really active in this conversation with a downline employee.

33:57 Yeah. And I may have just totally lost traction. Yeah. Right. I may have just blown out that relationship because I wasn't aware enough to know, man, I am on this week right now. I need to be aware of that. I've got things that I'm stressed about that are totally natural and totally appropriate. Okay. What am I going to do about it before I walk through the door? Yeah. Because I don't want to get swept up in the emotion. I don't want to lead in such a way that it leaves that crappy residue on somebody. Right. So those are two big things. And again, I know some of these ideas are really general and I know all of it's a lot easier said than done. No, but you know, I do have, this is so funny, man, how those stuff spider webs together.

34:39 I did a post on LinkedIn. People can go back and look for it about the Jim Dethmer project. So I was in my own kind of personal reflection. It was the last Friday, I think maybe. I revisited that old Jim Dethmer leading above the line. Oh, yeah. It was also a knowledge project. So if you haven't subscribed to knowledge project... He's the residue guy. That's where that language comes from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, so I guess maybe this could serve as a summary. So what is the answer? How do we become more in touch with what's going on inside us in the moment or is closer to in the moment? To where can I get in front of what's happening inside me so that it doesn't spill out on the people around me?

35:19 It doesn't explode on others and harm relationships. What I found is there's no solution except for some kind of mindfulness. For some of you, maybe the translation is prayer, right? It's that quiet time in the morning. And for others of you, it's some form of meditation. And for those of you that haven't really been exposed to either or committed to either, it can just be thinking through a list of questions periodically with your morning cup of coffee on a Sunday morning or... If you're kind of a daily person that sits by your cup of coffee before you head into the office, whatever. But Jim gives some really good self-assessment kind of questions that for me have been really useful.

36:01 In fact, I've even referred to these. over the weekend as I was processing what was going on with my wife. Here's his questions. Was there any way I got reactive in that conversation? Right? It's looking back over your week, looking back over the day, the previous day, whatever, and saying, was there any situation where I got reactive, where something stirred in me and I just exploded or I just quickly knee-jerk reaction to something? And then I think just exploring that, just thinking about it, mulling over it. Well, what was that about? What was I so pissed off about? Like just connecting with, why was I so upset? Why did all that come out? The second question is, was there any moment where I got self-protective?

36:45 Another version of that could be defensive. where I felt like I was being attacked. And just take a moment, step outside of what the other person said or did or the group did or what went wrong and just say, was there ever a point where I got self-protective or defensive? What was I feeling there? What was going on? What was it about that thing that person said that maybe... I mean, I think sometimes when we create some distance between what happened, we can look at it more objectively and But I think when we commit to ask ourselves these questions, I've found I start to be more tuned in in the moment, more often. So let's say instead of being totally aloof to it 90% of the time, now I can kind of see what's going on and sometimes catch it maybe half the time, which is a massive improvement.

37:35 It's resulted in far less tanked weekends with my wife. That's been the bonus. The last question he says is, was there any moment where I got more interested in control others' approval or safety or survival than I was in learning? I was like, man, those are good questions. Yeah, those are good. You know, you mull over those with a cup of coffee, right? Yeah. you're going to start to understand yourself a little bit better. What I'm hearing you say with that is the idea of getting in this consistent practice. You're going to create some new muscle memory because you're more in tuned with this review of your actions and how you responded to a situation. I've started to feel that way. I had a coach actually that I hired one time and he told me this and I thought this has also been really helpful.

38:18 I would say, gosh, you know, I'm really upset about this. And he'd say, no, you're not. He said, part of you is really upset about this. You're like, wait a minute, what? Yeah, no. And he clarified me. He said, no, no, no. Part of you is really upset about this. And you don't have to live your life under control of that part of you. Because there's some batshit crazy things that that part of you tries to do or wants to do. Right? Maybe we call it the ego. I don't know. Right. That was actually really helpful to me. He said part of his practice in terms of self-awareness and his leadership practice, this coach, is when I can say to myself, boy, part of me is really upset about what's going on in this meeting. Is you just gave yourself the option to respond from a different part of yourself.

39:05 Hmm. So call it whatever you want. I mean, there's some religious connotations here that some of you maybe latch on to. But there's just this idea of there's different parts of who we are. The ego and then our real true self. That's the part of us that really is kind of unchanging. It holds our principles and our values and whatever. But then there's our ego that's just screaming to... be accepted, to be liked, to be esteemed. Our ego wants to be defensive when we feel like we're misunderstood or accused of something. Our ego is the one that just is the reactor. And I found that really helpful when he said that. It's become part of my self-talk now.

39:49 Not always, but when I'm in the moment enough to say, gosh, part of me is getting really ticked off about how Brandon's talking to me. Right. In that moment, I can actually think about that thought and be like, all right, why am I so pissed off? What is it about Brandon? It's less of an identity at that point. Exactly. It's less about me. It's like, what's going on in my head? Our mind comes up with just all kinds of crazy, unproductive stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. A lot of it's really repetitive too. Yeah. So I found a lot of value in that. Sometimes little mind tricks, they're helpful. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's almost like they're little breathers. It gives you an opportunity to kind of like get out of your default response and actually get back into interacting intentionally with what's going on.

40:34 Yeah. It's like responding versus reacting. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah. Dude, that's not a good summary though. It was terrible. It was an excuse for me to talk. It was just a beautiful piece of information, but it was a horrible summary. You want to... You summarize. My mind is like, how do I summarize this? Okay, I got to do it. All right. So the original concept here, I think the vein that we stayed into was this idea of getting swept up good and bad, right? Just being completely tossed around by the environmental conditions at work, home, whatever. And so what, basically, what do we do with that? Because we can see examples of when we're caught up in that all the time, there's there's a lot of negatives, right?

41:18 We can get burnt out. We can lose our commitment. We can get so caught up in that one small battle that we lose the war. So it's this idea of just like, what can we do? What are some of the practices that we can put into place to give ourselves... a more rigid spine. I think we have to have a clear strategy or excuse me, a clear vision for what it is that we're doing with our business. What is this thing that we're going to be spending so much time and energy on? What are we creating? Why are we creating this thing? And again, we say this all the time. It probably comes up at least once a show. We got to get beyond the numbers. What is it about our business that's going to drive us the ups and downs, the lows, And really establishing that so that we can determine that horizon line.

42:06 So that we can keep our eyes on it so that we don't get so swept up in the individual battles that we forget that there's actually a war out there that we're fighting. And so I think that's huge. And again, there's a lot to unpack there, but I think it's a starting place. You mentioned a really cool, just kind of a practice that you can get into. And it's almost like a daily after action review, right? You're looking back in the past and we're asking ourselves three questions. again. Oh, I will. Yes. Yes, indeedy. Right here. Okay. Hit me. So the first question is, was there any moment where I became self-protective or defensive? Okay.

42:46 I lied. I'm having to go back to my profile and I closed it all. Oh, shit. So that was one of them. Okay. Oh, was there any way I got reactive in that interaction or conversation or situation? Okay. And the last one was, was there any moment this past week, yesterday, this morning, whatever, where I got more interested in control others' approval or safety slash survival than I was in learning. That's good, man. That last one's huge. All right. And then the third tool, the third tool was in the moment. noting that there is a part of you that's feeling X.

43:27 It's reacting in this way. I'm pissed, I'm stoked, whatever. A part of you. Yep. And the benefit of you reciting that terminology or using that perspective is this is not a full-body experience. This is not your identity. There's an element that is being provoked in some way. Cool, take note of it. Now you have a chance to maybe change the way that you're gonna respond. Or the way that you're gonna raise to that occasion or not. Rise to that occasion or not. So again, I think just to do this justice, these are big things. This is big stuff. But the idea here is, what are the things that you can do as a leader and as a business owner to take some of the emotional instability out of your operation, out of what you're doing, so that you don't lead people in such a way that you're constantly having to apologize for your behavior, or you're just you're just leaving people behind you, right?

44:23 Bodies on the floor behind you, right? You're not getting so caught up in the wins that you forget that that's one of many in the step towards this greater goal. So again, it's kind of heady stuff, but I think it was good. We're going to end on that. Right on. Later. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of the MRM Podcast. And if you got something out of it, share it with a friend, hit subscribe, hit follow, leave us a five-star review. Thanks a lot.