Ep 103 - "Thin Ice"

0:07 Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. Man, I love this industry. A little laughing off camera, off recording there. How's it going, man? Came in with some laughs. You know what? How are you doing, man? I'm doing okay. I'm doing actually just fine. We had a good man conversation earlier. Did that feel cathartic at all just to be able to talk about? You know, it did, actually, and it's where I want to go. It's actually where I want to go with this episode. You know, I think before we get too deep into it, we're going to talk about our sponsors. But just to kind of give you guys...

0:49 an initial thought here. Holidays are coming, and they're coming real fast. And if your worlds are anything like mine, the holidays are interesting. It's like this really unique mix of sometimes there's some pain and sorrow associated with it. There's a lot of joy. There's a lot of focusing on what I think we can collectively say are probably better priorities, more important things, often surrounding relationships. But I think what's interesting is this time of year tends to be a fuel for a lot of head games. Good, bad, or indifferent. And I'm not impervious to that.

1:31 I've definitely been experiencing some mounting, I don't know what, recognition of some hard stuff. So it just got me thinking, you know what, we can't be the only ones. And with the holiday season approaching, it seems like a good time to chat maybe a little bit about some of those things that pop up in our life that make us question, make us think. make us wrestle. And I think that this is, the timing is good because I don't think we'll be the only ones. I like it. I like it too. That's where we're going to go. Yeah, there's something about, there's something important about us giving air time, I think, to those things. So yeah, let's take it, dude. All right. Sponsors. Which one do I want this time? Well, I'm going to go answer for us. I'm just going to cut right in.

2:11 I don't know if you guys listened to our last episode or not, but Chris got a little preachy on answer for us. It was actually very respectable, but dang, you're a believer. That's for certain. Yeah. And we are in general, guys. We've said this a lot. There's so much that happens in that initial primary interaction with our company. And so many times our clients are calling in a very distressed state. There's a lot of anxiety. There's stress. There's just this, we're trying to do life. And this thing has happened. And it is really confusing and very stressful. And so these people reach out to our teams in a moment of real deep need. And then we often kind of fumble that initial interaction.

2:52 We don't prioritize it. We don't make it something where people feel invited and hopeful and ultimately experience something that's consistent and value added. And so anyways, if there's a potential wrestling match happening within your organization where we don't have enough redundancy, we haven't really prioritized an intake system or process. One of those partners is honestly AnswerForce. And answerforce.com forward slash floodlight, you can kind of see the opportunities that are available by being a listener of the show. But at the end of the day, they're just an outstanding bolt-on partner that will customize an intake process to match yours so that it's fluid, it's seamless, it's consistent.

3:33 Have some redundancy, have a safety mechanism put into place when our teams get overwhelmed, somebody goes on vacation, whatever the case may be, these guys are an opportunity to help you really professionalize and level up what that initial experience is like for a client. And God knows how much we spend to get the phone to ring. And no contracts. Yeah. Oh, no contracts. You can change how much you use them every single month. Yeah. You throttle, you de-throttle, you do whatever the heck you want. Make it make sense to you. They're not going to put you into a box or DM you into a corner. So answerforce.com forward slash floodlight. Check it out. And if it makes sense, guys, bolt them on. Love it. That was good, dude. All right. Liftify, Zach and co. Zach and the team are just great.

4:15 I mean, they're obviously an advertiser. They pay us to say nice things, but they back their stuff up. And we believe it. Yeah. Yeah, we believe it because we've seen it. We get the emails from them. Hey, thanks for this client. We just onboarded them. Or we get the update. Oh my gosh, these folks just eclipsed 200 reviews. They were only at X. And it's exciting. They're connected. They follow through. They follow up. They do what they say they're going to do. When something's not working, we've also seen them get into motion. The restoration industry is their fastest growing vertical And they recognize it. They're taking care of it. And they're taking care of it. They're finding unique ways to augment their process to create even better results within the restoration industry.

4:59 Because we do have a weird industry. It's weird. Like the way we invoice for stuff, the way we close out jobs, it's just different than if somebody's just putting a new furnace in, right? Or getting pest control done, right? It's just different. And so they've optimized their process for the restoration industry to drive results. And what more could you ask from a partner? Yeah. than somebody that's tuned into your business and how it works and is trying to drive better and better results. So I don't think we've said it for a while, but, you know, the industry standard is that people convert 5% to 10% Single digits. of their jobs into a Google review. Yep. They, at Liftify, are targeting 20% to 25%. And they're getting it. Yep.

5:40 We've seen it consistently. And so if you say do a thousand jobs a year and you're not accumulating 250 reviews a year, then your stuff's probably not as good as it could be. Your people aren't remembering to talk about it as often as you think they are or they say they are. That's right. And so put a platform like Liftify in place where at the very least, you're going to more reliably catch that conversion that you want. And that drives your business. It's going to drive organic search results. That's one of the main reasons why we do these Google reviews is because it drives organic inbound calls. We're all trying to just grow. We want to make sure.

6:21 to pick up dimes, folks, call Liftify.com forward slash floodlight. Get a demo. Get a demo and just look into it. Maybe you're using Podium or BirdEye or one of these other platforms right now. And you're like, well, it seems to be working. Well, take a closer look. And look at how much you're paying too. Because a lot of vendor fees and subscriptions that we do can get lost in the shuffle. Yeah. It's like maybe at one point in your business when you had everything in a storage unit and you're really excited about doing a million bucks that year, you would notice that $400 a month charge. And now you've gotten to the point where it's like 400 bucks ain't a big deal.

7:02 Yeah, but is it doing what you think it's doing? That's the thing to investigate. It's easy to blow off those lower costs when we have so many bigger rocks that we have to move in our businesses. Yeah. But is that little expense doing what you think it's doing? Take a look and you ought to get a demo and see what Lyftify can produce for you and then compare and make a decision. So anyways, lyftify.com forward slash floodlight. There you go. And then last but certainly not least, Michelle and the team, CNR Magazine. You guys know we've referred to her many times as a friend of the industry. We've been kind of pointing towards some of the work that she's currently been partnering with KnowHow on and just the key and critical information and influence that she continues, her and her team continue to provide to our industry.

7:49 It's awesome, guys. And really, there's no ask, right? There's not even an ask. It's just subscribe. Get access to this free information and leverage it for the health of your team. And also just having a consistent perspective on what is going on in our industry. Now more than ever, we really have an opportunity as an industry to continue to unify our voice behind a common mission of wanting to provide really high value to our clients, our clients' experience. And wanting to protect our businesses so that we can all do this and serve this industry for a sustained period of time. And in order for us to really do that, we have to find more common ground. We have to find more spaces in the industry where our voices can be unified.

8:33 And just an outstanding starting point. is get behind CNR and participate in their sphere. So yeah, you ready to get into this, man? Let's do it, dude. Okay. So we kind of set the stage. There's just been this overwhelming sense of there's some things that all the self-help and self-development, personal growth that we try to focus on via podcasts and influencers that we pay attention to, our own mentors and mentee relationships, all those faces... I inevitably will hit a wall where it doesn't feel like it's answering the real problem. There's this thing... kind of underneath it all that for whatever reason, it doesn't feel like the work is penetrating deep enough to create change there.

9:16 And therefore the rest of the outcomes still kind of have this sticky something on it, right? I'm just trying to describe this in a way that people can relate to. But long and short of it, I've just been experiencing more so over the last handful of weeks going into the holidays, just this sense of, man, the work we've been doing this year It's not getting down in the threads. There's something below, right, that I need to wrestle with more. Well, yeah. You know, yours and I's conversation earlier, like for me, the tears were flowing. Which I think is hard. Like there's not many people in my life where I allow myself to do that.

10:00 I allow myself to feel those things. Yeah. And I think that for me, that's part of the issue is just unintentionally. I think none of us try to stuff those emotions, but we do. And I think particularly in business, and we're in a powerful industry, right? In construction, there's a lot of machismo. There's a lot of get shit done. There's a lot of... salty language and tough shit, you know, that's like really valued and sort of praised in our... And I get it. And it's useful. And it's all the things. It's useful. Yep. And at the same time, I think we don't give... We don't acknowledge enough the reality that we all sort of carry burdens with us.

10:46 Yeah. We carry... We talked about it in that Heart of the Matter post and in that keynote we did at the collective where we all have these file folders. And it's very personal to each of us. Some people listening to this conversation are in the cab of their truck by themselves. We all have those moments alone where it's just us and our thoughts and those file folders. That's right. And I think most of us don't have people in our life where we can expose that. We don't feel safe. Yeah. Exposing what those thoughts truly are.

11:27 And so I don't know. I guess I'm really thankful, dude, that you and I have that kind of friendship. And it's taken years. It's taken years to build that. It's where we trust each other in that way. But I just... When I'm in the shit, in my head, in those stories, the real stories. The real stories that not everybody sees or knows about. My fears and inadequacies and also just the imposter. It's that same place as the imposter syndrome. Those stories come out. Yeah. There's not... I don't have a lot of people in my life. I think most of us, that's probably true. Yeah. Yeah.

12:08 I mean, the hope is you have at least one. Well, the hope is like if you're married and you have that kind of relationship with your spouse. But I just, I think the reality is most of us have some sort of filter even with our spouses. Like there's some things that are just like so personal. We feel... because the way we grew up or just what we believe about what you should be. Yeah. How a man should act and think and talk and all of these shoulds. Yeah. We often don't feel like we can share certain things with anybody. Yeah. You know, it's interesting kind of the way this is starting to go. And I think I want to hang here because it's important. And that is...

12:49 Often, we're going into November, right? So about the time this show comes out, we're going to be like mid-November. We're going to be approaching Thursday, right? Which is Thanksgiving. And there's kind of two opportunities I feel like that can happen right now for us. One is that we have a moment where, and like with all holidays, we're going to get wrapped up in all the to-dos, the planning, the preparation, the foods, the things, the stuff, the beer, right? Yeah. But we do really have an opportunity to physically be reminded to pause and give thanks. And I think one of the pockets I want to stay in this year as I think through that is that. It's like those friendships. The relationships that really are meaningful.

13:29 Meaningful to the point where they change... the way that you experience life. And it's interesting. I think a lot of people that listen to our show are business owners. They're in key lead positions. They're in team lead positions. And it can feel super lonely. And or there's just this constant grind to succeed and carry the weight of leadership, which is both profound and heavy all at the same time. And those relationships or those people that you can speak truth to are just so imperative because you and I were talking about this idea that Often I feel like my life is in that Tupperware container. The things that I'm struggling with or wrestling with are there. And every so often, I just get enough of a burp. The old school 70s, 80s Tupperware, you could hit the button and it...

14:13 I can let a little steam out. I haven't removed anything though from the container. All it did was burped out some air and it gave me a little bit more runway to go kick some ass. And then inevitably, I'm going to hit that marker again where that cap is at full pressure and I've got to do something. And I've realized that I've spent most of my years just burping that Tupperware container instead of actually getting in, pulling the lid off and trying to pull some shit out from inside that container. Cleaning that shit out. Yeah. All right, Head, Heart & Boots listeners. Wanted to stop here just a moment and thank our underwriting sponsor, Bloodlight Consulting Group. As all of you know, right? You know, Brandon and I, this is our passion project, Head, Heart & Boots is.

14:55 But it's also a way more and more that our consulting clients find us. And in effect, they interview us, right? Those of you who've been listening to the show for a while, you get to know who we are, right? What we're about. So if Head, Heart & Boots is valuable to you, one of the best things you can do is share it with your friends. And it's been incredible to watch just the audience grow. And we still get text messages from many of you about shows that you really like and impacted you. So that's number one. And please keep doing that. Many of you have been huge advocates of the show. We also just want to remind you, too, if you're a restoration company owner and you're interested in a partner in your growth, you want some help building out systems, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams, developing your leadership teams. helping set up the infrastructure for you to scale and grow into the company that you're trying to build.

15:40 That's what we do. That's what we do is we come alongside restoration company leaders, we help equip them, and we help support them in that growth trajectory. So if you're looking for that, go to floodlightgrp.com. Potentially, we could be a great match for each other. Another way that we really do serve our client base and our sphere of influence is through our premier partners. We work really hard to vet those folks that we believe bring a level of value to the industry, that it can really be leveraged in a way to have a sincere, positive impact on your business. Thank you. We take that very seriously. The folks that we create those kind of ongoing partnerships, that's not a check-the-box kind of scenario. We really see strategic alignment in the value that they bring.

16:21 We see value in the way that their leadership teams and their partners are developed. And we've done very sincere work of ensuring that these folks that we introduce our clients and our sphere to can actually create vetted value. So go check out floodlightgrp.com forward slash premier slash partners and see if there's some folks on there that you can connect with and begin developing some other resources to support your growth and your business. one of the things that I'm leaning into this year is just the idea of how important my friendship is. Not you, you, as one of those people. How important I think those relationships are going to be in order to give me both the courage, the competency, the support to get the lid off and start removing some of the items in that container so that I can actually create permanent bandwidth and not temporary bandwidth that I got to return to later.

17:13 And so maybe one of the opportunities for me, I think, this year is when we as we approach Thanksgiving, doing the best I can to not get so consumed by the event of the holiday itself and really lean into what am I extremely thankful? Like, what are the things that have changed my life? You know, the relationships, the wrestling with some of the hard things, the commitment to some of the self-disciplines that you and I share. Those are things that moved the needle in my existence. They helped me be a better person. And I think I have an opportunity to just really sit in that this year and be thankful for those things. You know, I don't know.

17:54 I'm not saying it'll fix anything per se, but boy, it does seem like there's something healthy about that, you know? Totally agree, dude. You know, it's also worth maybe saying out loud, for our listeners, like before we started this podcast and we were talking about kind of this topic, we were like, you know, God, are people going to get tired of us always going into these kind of heart conversations? Like, is this... Should we talk about maybe some project management best practices? Or maybe we should talk about commercial sales again. We haven't talked about that in a while. Or maybe we should talk about some leadership principles and how we run our leadership. And I just... I've had one conversation after another, and I know you have too, with clients.

18:38 Yeah. And I mean, I think of one of our clients where we were on site with them a few weeks ago and... you relayed a conversation you had with the owner about kind of what their... The family culture they were raised in and how it affected... I mean, the way that you were able to see that person, just they made so much more sense. Yeah. You know? Yep. Like understanding those... The file folders that live inside of all of us, those good and bad things that happen, happened... To all of us, man, it's just, there's something really important about acknowledging these parts of our life and having people in our life that we can verbalize these things.

19:25 Yeah. I don't even know exactly why it is that way. Yeah. But there is something special in a word that somebody, rando person told me this before is this Hebrew word called yadah. Yadah. I just latched onto it and it describes this, what I now kind of think is just this ancient... like universal permanent thing about humans is we have this inherent desire to know and to be known. Like there's this thing, it's just... It's built into the DNA. And yet, like in social media, it's interesting because for the last like 10 years, most of us, not all of us, but most of us are on some form of social media.

20:10 Yeah. And in some ways, legitimately, we feel... Like a lot more people know a lot more about each of us. And we know a lot more about a lot of other people that we otherwise wouldn't have known without social media. Yeah. But then it's also created, it's become this tool for knowing, but we can control what parts people know. And of course, generally, we like people to know all the good shit about us. Yeah. when we've got ourselves dialed in physically, well, we want to share pictures of that view of us right then, but not six months ago when we packed on some pounds from whatever.

20:50 Hey, are you referring to me right now? You son of a bitch. You know, but it's like we curate... the image that we're putting out. And we don't just do that on social media. I think, in fact, social media has kind of taught us how to do that in real life too. Oh, for sure. The way we curate how we present ourselves to other people and, God, there's just... So yesterday, man, I had this... I spoke in this RIA technical conference. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the topic was AI, chat GPT. It was a cool topic. I mean, I think that stuff's really cool. And yet I was kind of like, why am I the guy talking about this? And then I found out Jeff Moore.

21:31 Oh, sure. And I realized I'm name dropping there. I mean, right? Like Jeff is this icon in the industry. He's a really cool dude. And I think what I love about Jeff is that the little, you know, it's not like we're best friends, but just the few interactions that we've had with him. I just really quality guy. Well, I just, I love how... I hate to use the word authentic because, you know, so right. But he just is a very genuine dude. And the times where I feel like when I've seen him in a public setting or I've been around him or when we've had him on the podcast, When I ask a certain question and I'm expecting kind of a PR answer from him, instead he responds with a more authentic from the gut answer.

22:15 Yeah. I think when others may have crafted a more diplomatic response or whatever, like he's just very honest. He comes off that way to me anyways. Professionally honest. Yeah. Like I just... I really appreciate that. And he's one of those people where, again, you just feel like you're getting the real copy of them, right? Anyway. And so when I found out Jeff was going to be also part of this session, I was like, oh, sweet. Okay, well, I... I don't really care why they asked me to do this. Now I get to do it with Jeff. And it's like, okay, this is cool. Let's talk about ChatGPT. So anyway, it was great. But again, I was just reminded of...

22:56 I felt so much imposter syndrome, dude, coming out of that. I felt like Jeff did a better job than I did hitting on the subject. you know, Jana and I created the slide deck. I thought the slide deck looked rad. Thank you, Jana. And, but I just, I felt so unconfident in the moment. And it's so funny because I think a lot of people perceive me to be really confident and extroverted in those kinds of settings. And there is a part of me that is, you know, it isn't a show in that sense. You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. Yeah. But it's so funny. I have to remind my kids this sometimes too.

23:37 It's like, because dad, it just seems so easy. You do this podcast and you get up and talk in front of people and you do workshops and stuff. And I remind them, I'm like, I get nervous and concerned every single time I do anything in public. Yeah. Now, a lot of it starts to melt away when I'm in it because I practiced it so many times. You know what I mean? Sure. Sure. But like yesterday during that RIA virtual deal, I just felt so... I just felt off. And I felt like I didn't come off the way I wanted to. I wasn't as confident with my delivery of it. And it's funny, beforehand, I asked Jeff, I was like, dude, do you...

24:19 I mean, you do so much of this, right? I mean, he's all over the place. And he's such a huge front man, I think, for ATI. I mean, I think a lot of people, when they think ATI, they think Jeff, right? Yeah. I said, do you ever feel nervous anymore doing this? And he said, well, yes, sometimes. Especially if I feel thrust into something where I'm not Like I just, it's kind of outside of my domain, you know, definitely. And I think that was part of what it was for me. Yeah. Is that chat GPT, it's something I'm curious about and I'm interested in, but I don't feel the same authority, I guess, over the information that I might... with some of the resto stuff we talk about and commercial sales and a lot of the things that you and I get involved in.

25:04 And so that was certainly part of it. But there was also something very just, again, meaningful to me about being able to have that conversation with Jeff. To be able to ask the question. It all sounds like navel... I fear as people listen to this shit, dude, that it's just so navel-gazy. Sure, yeah. And it's like, let's fucking get back to work. Yeah. You know? But there is something about dealing with those head stories and those emotions and games that feels really productive to me. I mean, just even right now, you and I just have a little bit of a pause break this morning. We just happened, our schedule happened to have some time in it for us to sort of process and digest some of these feelings that you and I have been in different ways.

25:46 Yep. You know, when we started, you kind of opened the conversation this morning and I felt myself just tapping into the same place of like, shit, yeah, I've... There's some of these emotions and things that have been stacking up for me. And we've had a couple events, a couple interactions with people in our orbit... Yep. ...that have kind of hoped and prodded at some of these... Yeah. ...file folders. Yeah. And... And I think you and I just, the nature of the work, you just kind of stuff it down. Yeah. You have your internal reaction. You have all your thought head games that are rolling around. But I think like this morning for you, you're just like, shit, I just got to, I have to get this.

26:29 I have to talk through this. Yeah. And I'm so glad you did because I think it... That's the other thing I've noticed is sometimes I'm the instigator between you and I and sometimes you are. And there's something really powerful about that. You know, that's an interesting point. I think it kind of makes... Like by you being willing to go there, it gives me permission to... To deal with my shit. That's it. That's what I was going to say is I think there are times where I'm the one that leads out because again, it's just I got to burp the Tupperware. I don't have a choice. Something is going to happen, right? But then I think just like what you've referred to, there's been many times where you're the one that initiates the conversation for the same purpose. You got to burp your Tupperware.

27:11 But I immediately connect with it. I don't know of too many times ever in the last nine plus years. Oh. Where I didn't have some kind of experience or relationship or whatever that there was context that I shared with you. So when you started to bring this item up, this topic, wrestle with it, whatever, it wasn't like I was only listening for the sake of you. Almost every time I could listen because it was cathartic for me as well in the moment. Like the timing of it almost felt... ordained, right? In a lot of different circumstances. And so as you're talking about that piece, this is what it's got me thinking a little bit about. So I'm kind of a visual guy.

27:52 Like when I try to remember things, they tend to come to me in some form of a picture. I don't know if anybody listening are Lord of the Rings fans, but I'm like old school nerd. I love all sci-fi, nerdy, naive. Dude, I saw the first Lord of the Rings. Like the old school? The original Lord of the Rings. Of the new trilogy. Yeah, yeah. Not the book, but the movie. There's only... Well, there was like old school cartoon probably when you and I were kids. No, I'm talking about the cinematic. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like the real... Because if you think back to that, when that came out, it was... Oh, it was groundbreaking. I mean, it was absolutely... It was kind of like... It was in the same vein as like Avatar. It was. Remember when Avatar came out? It was stunning. Avatar still holds... I mean, it still holds weight.

28:33 You watch it now and you're like, oh my gosh, this is 21 years ago. Yeah. Same thing with that. But I watched it at the old Whiteside Theater. Oh, yeah. Right. One block over from where our offices are. Yeah. It's a hundred year old theater. Yeah. And it's got like the rosette on the ceiling and like this old school theater. It's amazing. And we watched it only seats like 200 people. Oh, that's sweet. And anyway, so I have memories of that first. So, so every hour long film. Yeah. All of them were like three plus hours, three or four hours. Anyways, there's the scene and I'm brain farting right now. There's going to be LOTR nerds listening and chastising me. I can't remember. I think it's the third film. There's the scene where the lead bad guy is... Oh, this is The Hobbit, I think.

29:14 This is The Hobbit series. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Hobbit series, okay? So this is pre-Lord of the Rings. This is about the Battle of the Kings when the dwarves try to take their kingdom back, okay? Anyways, there's this scene where the lead bad guy is floating under the ice. So there's this body of water that's frozen over. And one of the kind of like lead good guys, if you will, is standing over the ice as this enemy... who you think is dead, is floating face up. Oh, dude, I've seen this thing. Right underneath the ice. And then right as he comes underneath his feet, his eyes, these pale blue eyes open, and he sticks this weapon up through the ice and it goes through the foot of our hero. Okay?

29:55 So hang with me here. To me, often, my emotional state feels like this. Where I am very confidently standing over this thing, where I feel like I have made progress, there is infrastructure between me and this moment of danger or weakness or whatever that And there'll be this thing that happens and that weapon comes through the ice. Punches through. And punches me. And I realize in that moment... A vulnerable. I was on thin ice. Not being tongue-in-cheek, but the things that I had been doing and building up and putting into place were merely ice.

30:36 And they were so easily broken through to where I then experienced firsthand. Dude, that is... The pain, the danger, the moment, right? That is a powerful picture, man. It's trippy, right? And I think today, if I'm just... I'm not trying to skirt around any of the topic. I was having one of those moments today where I rolled in and something punched through the surface and hit me right in the gut. And it made me realize... the fragility of the things that I have put into place to address some of these issues. And these, again, it's your file folders, right? It's why that talk was so important is because it is so universally relevant.

31:17 Now, we may not all be in a state where we're willing to accept it or recognize it or admit it. But this is universal experience. And then I'm thinking right now, Our people, our teams are made up of people who very likely are experiencing something similar to them. Not very likely. Not very likely. they are experiencing the exact same kinds of things. They are experiencing similar things. The individual that you and I are thinking of, where we had an experience, they also have the exact same thing going on inside. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

31:57 And I think that's just kind of, I'm not sure what else to say. I think it's just a matter of giving folks permission, if not myself permission, Dude, the ice is often thinner than I think. And at a moment's notice, boom, something happens. It breaches the service, totally slaps me upside the head. And it becomes very overwhelming. And I think what you and I were really dialing in today before we hit record was this idea of, there's more work to be done. It's like I... I've still only done a good job of adding multiple layers to that ice sheath.

32:37 Yeah. But I haven't been, I haven't burrowed through the ice and found out what is this thing that keeps floating underneath it, right? So I have a hypothesis around this for me, like that I think the power is in the sharing and acknowledging. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anymore at 43 years old if it's about the fixing. You know? Yeah. Like I feel, I feel, I mean, our conversation is more, I feel really connected to it, dude. And by extension, I feel connected to you because I realize, God, we're all in the shit together. Like we all have it. Yep. if we're honest, if we feel safe enough to be like, yeah, you know what?

33:21 Here's the shit that's tumbling around in my head. Nine times out of 10, I'm thinking of another entrepreneur buddy of mine. I had him over to the sauna. We had a sauna sesh. I love this. I freaking love the sauna. I like how you call it soak. Yeah, sauna soak. You know what I call it? Sauna soak. Yeah, sauna soak. So we had a sauna soak and we're all soaking in our sweat. It just like pools up and dropping on the floor. Drop it on the seat, bro. Yeah. No, but it's like you're in a confined space. There is an amount of suffering in motion that's like shared. And we end up talking, you know? And I was talking with this dude This is this buddy of mine about, we just went to the deeper places, man.

34:03 And the shit that's going through his very successful, oh my gosh, man. Very successful dude. And I think somehow in our heads, we're always protecting ourself from looking less than in front of more than people that we perceive to be more than us. Perceived, yeah. So we look at people that have more money, bigger businesses, whatever, more attractive spouse, bigger house, more toys, more security, they're more responsible, make better choices. All the things, more spiritual, more Christian, more whatever. And we compare ourselves to that impression that we have of them.

34:48 And that creates an immense amount of suffering and self-doubt. Yeah. And then you have these moments where you are totally honest and they meet you in that honesty and you're like, oh, man, we're actually all the same here. Yeah. There is something important and special, I believe, about that. And I don't care if you're Christian or you're Buddhist or you're Mormon or you're, you know, whatever it is, I think that... seems to be there's something important about us having those kind of honest relationships where we can air that stuff out. You know, where you can just like take the lid off the Tupperware and you see the you know, the three-day-old casserole that, you know, you brought back from the office.

35:37 You're like, we're all the same stuff. Yeah. I think you're right. I think that's becoming more universally clear. And it's, you know, it's interesting because anytime you start talking in absolutes, I think there's always something inside of me that my skin crawls just a little bit because it's like, yeah, but, you know, our world has changed so fast because of our exposure to experiences and new people, new relationships, new perspectives, all the things. But there is just something that I am growing more bold in is that universal truth of human suffering. And I don't mean that like, dum-dum-dum. It's like, oh, my, you know, depressing and all the things. I just mean there's a reality that all of us have something that we're wrestling with.

36:18 But it's the act of ignoring it or seemingly thinking that we are in a silo. That you're alone in it. That we're alone in it is what the problem is. It feeds it. I almost think of it a little bit like, you know, Jocko Welling's dichotomy of leadership. Yeah. And that idea is it's this balancing act. It's the both and. It's the both and. It requires both and it just is. You can not like it. You can love it. It really doesn't fucking matter. This is the truth. There is this need of equilibrium. These things exist at the same time. And I think when it comes to suffering, pain, issues, challenges... Emotions, anxieties.

36:59 They are going to exist. I don't think there is a moment or a world that we are going to create, manipulate, or control where someday I wake up and I no longer have to wrestle with these things. I think though my understanding of the balance can get better the more time I spend looking in the dark spaces to wrestle with the things that I feel like are compromising me or creating the thin ice. Right? And I don't know what that looks like. I mean, in full humility, I don't know. I don't have the answer. This is not something I can teach or preach to. This is something I'm actively wrestling with and figuring out how to do it in a way that's healthy that then I can mirror potentially for our team and mirror for my kids as an example.

37:43 Well, you know, like as part of our conversation, I think maybe it's less about fixing, right, than we are kind of conditioned to think. You had a problem. You have something you feel crappy about. Well, you just need to make changes. And then you'll never feel crappy again. Well, of course, we all know that doesn't happen. Then there's something else to feel crappy about that's going to pop up, right? And coming out of yours and I's conversation earlier, I felt a new motivation to lean into... Like I told you, I've been kind of... I've been kind of locked up with my wife the last couple days. Frustrated. She and I had an interaction. Both of us sort of reacted poorly to it. And we've been at this stalemate for the last 24 hours or so.

38:27 And of course, between work and kids and everything else, you can just sort of... You can almost put your marriage on hold. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maybe I'm... Yeah, right. Okay, right. We're all in this shit together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So you just like... You don't verbalize it. Nobody says, Hey, let's hit pause on our marriage. No, but it's just like you just kind of... You flip that switch and you're like, you just kind of got through. You know? Yep. You almost shift into roommate status momentarily. Right? Oh, yeah. And I shared with you some of that. And you were sharing some of the shit that's kind of been in your head. And somehow... even though neither one of us really offered each other any advice on, well, you just need to do this. I came out of it feeling like, you know what?

39:08 We're all in this. And I need to reconnect the dots with my wife. That's what I want. That's what I want. And so what's the next right thing to do there? I don't know that I'm ever going to fix this, this, the, the thing. Like there's always going, I, maybe this isn't true. Maybe some people just have like unlimited bliss in their marriage relationship, but it's like, it feels as though there is a level of suffering in life that is never entirely going to go away. And I know like sort of my, my religious upbringing is Christianity. And so there's, there's this hope I think that Christians often reflect on of like, Hey, someday in heaven, all of this is going to be made right. You know, that, that all the suffering will go away.

39:51 Right. We'll fall away. And that's a beautiful thought, you know? And I think for a lot of people, that holds a lot of hope. Like someday there actually will be relief from all of this. But, you know, here on earth, it's just like things are never going to be perfect in relationship. You know, but just by feeling heard by you, And you acknowledging that some version of that struggle exists for you too, just helps me move forward. Yep. And so I texted my wife, actually, when you got up to go get more coffee or whatever. I was texting my wife and I'm like, look, let's get the kids set up at dinner and let you and I go out. We need to clear the table. We need to reconnect the dots.

40:32 We just have to, you know? Yep. Yeah, you know, Gina and I are getting ready to go on a little bit of a vacation together. And that was, you know, literally the same thing. We're so funny. And right after that conversation happened, I texted her. I was like, Hey, I need to see and hear you this week. Like, let's make sure we maximize you know, our time on this vacation. And, you know, what I want to do right now, like if we're just completely transparent, just like every other business right now, we are crashing towards the end of the year. I feel like we're on a train. I'm tied to the front of it and that fucker's screaming. And, you know, And I can see the counter in front of me, right?

41:13 That it's almost up. And so what I want to do is just kind of eat, sleep, and breathe our business. But in light of how I was feeling this morning, I'm like, you know what? That is precisely what continues to add in my confidence of that thin ice. Yeah. Is if I just keep myself busy... I won't have to worry about this thing. And then I'm like, okay. But if I want this year to have significance, having a week where I get some ground on my understanding with my partner, my understanding to our relationship, my understanding of how that affects me personally and the foundation I'm trying to build under my own two feet, that seems like it will likely yield more return for me than just hyper-focusing more hours on the business because it will do something to our revenue stream, secure one more client, or put one more system in place before the end of 2023.

42:05 Yeah. I don't know if it's the right answer. My gut says it is, and that's what I'm going to lean into. I'm not ignoring the other shit. but I'm going to try to maximize that week. You know that visual that you just have like tied to the front of the train? It reminded me of that story. And I can't, I've never a big like Greek mythology guy, but isn't it, is it Oedipus, right? That the story of burning the ships? I don't know if it's Oedipus. Or Perseus. Kind of an eagerness. But where he had his crew tie himself to the mast of the ship. So he couldn't, like they were facing almost certain death. Right. As they approach the shores. Yeah. And they could have turned around.

42:46 He had them tie him to the, whatever the front of the ship is. That thing, like I think of Titanic. Yeah. Or he's out on the front of the ship. Right. Whatever. Whatever the view was. Anyway, it was just like. You know how many semen we are offending right now? You know, I use that term on purpose. Okay. We are. We're falling apart. We are falling apart. I think maybe it's time for us to land the plane. Yeah. You guys listen, you guys have probably grown accustomed to this that sometimes... Would you please write to us and reassure us that anybody gives a shit about this stuff? Yeah, right. Give us a damn direct message. Do something. But here's the reality, man. There's got to be a part of us too that just kind of doesn't fucking care. Like if this is meaningful, if we really do believe some of the universal truth... Yeah, it is to me.

43:28 We have to be really careful because we're asking broken people who are all just like us, trying to build up that facade, protect themselves, control their ego, do all the things to give us their opinion sometimes on the realities of some of the things that you and I talk about. And I feel like by doing that, we're almost... we end up perpetuating the problem. I think that many of us can relate to the stuff that we're talking about. Yeah. And if this is the kind of show that doesn't work for you, That's okay. There's lots. Yeah. But I think it does for many. And we're going to continue to stay in this pocket. It won't always look like this.

44:09 We're going to continue to do that. Maybe we'll talk about project management next week. We'll get into some PM school. We'll talk about inverting more recon in your business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to me, at the end of the day, this is more meaningful. Yeah. And it's stuff that's powerful, I think, for us. It's good to wrestle with. So guys, going into the holiday season, thinking about Thanksgiving coming up, Maybe one of the opportunities we have this year is to do two things. One, recognize again the humanity of our people on our team. Recognize the holidays get difficult. They just are difficult. If you're not wrestling with an event that's related to the time of year of the holidays, you're also still stressed out and all the things. This is a tough time of year, both good and bad.

44:49 Remember that with your team. Ask them questions. Engage in the conversation. Call out the elephant in the room. Don't be afraid to recognize that our people could have some challenging experience over the next six weeks. and that it's real, and that by you recognize it may be the most meaningful thing you could do all year. And then I think the other set is, how confident are you standing over that ice? Is there something else for us to admit, wrestle with, incorporate a friendship or a trusted mentor into so that we can potentially make some ground and keep the ground? Yeah. Yeah. That's good, man. Okay, guys. We'll see you later. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots.

45:32 And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow. Formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.