Ep 109 - "Things Are Never Exactly As They Seem"

0:07 Welcome back to the Head, Heart, and Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brennan. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. Man, I love this industry. What's up, man? How are you? I'm good. You have got a topic for us. We started batting it around during our coffee sesh. We got started today. It is just for kicks. I'll mention to people, it is literally New Year's Eve. Yeah. And you and I got in here to the studio. It's been a hot minute since we've been recording. It feels good to be back behind the microphones, to be honest. Yeah. We are laying down some conversations, got some fun episodes we're doing. But before we dive into the topic today, let's get into our sponsors.

0:49 Answerforce.com. Everybody needs redundant systems when it comes to our call intake. Yeah. if you are still dependent on your spouse or your family member or your single receptionist to handle all your call intake, your system's broken. Because what happens when they go on lunch? Then what? Whoever just randomly answers the phone? Okay, it's a problem. AnswerForce is a great gap filler. It's a great solution for that fundamental problem. And the calls that are coming into your... They're valuable, right? We've spent a lot of money already. Don't chance it, right? And their base package...

1:29 It's $370. And they said they actually even have a lower one. And there's no contracts. Flex up, flex down. Answerforce.com, a great call reception partner. Solves a critical problem in virtually all restoration companies. Create some redundancy in your call intake. Don't lose valuable leads because you mishandled them. Love it. Liftify. Liftify.com forward slash floodlight. You guys know Partners in Crime. We dig them. Their platform is... Ramp up the number of five-star Google reviews. Grab the SEO. Grab the online attention. Maximize your brand. Get more business. Liftify.com forward slash floodlight.

2:09 And last but not least, our friend, our partner... CNR Magazine, Michelle and the team rocking it, crushing it, gathering all the inside information, giving you the details, the know-hows, the know-whats in our business. She's got a massive thing planned for this year in terms of the different content they'll continue to put out and provide for all of us. We're going to actually partner in some of that. And so it'll be fun. So do yourself a favor there. Get connected with CNR Magazine, all their digital content, their print content, solid. It's good. Where are you taking this? So, okay. So this topic is kind of funny. We learn so much by watching our kids in terms of just being in that relationship with them, listening to their struggles, all the different things they wrestle with so much.

2:52 Sometimes it just turns into a giant spotlight for me on an area that I have... Man, I've just missed. I just missed that that's been a struggle, a blind spot, an issue, whatever it might be that's held me back or that I've wrestled with personally and just couldn't put words to it. But for whatever reason, you watch your kids and you're like, boom, that's what it is. Here's the thing, right? And so both my kids, early 20s, starting to explore the professional world to a certain extent. And my daughter is a kind of... I just call it mid-level manager. She's an assistant manager in a retail business of spa business. Not like Whirlpool spas, but... No, no, no. Massages and facials and all that stuff. Day spa, whatever.

3:33 Day spa industry. Yep. And it's interesting. I think that world is interesting because the pay scales are nuts. They just underpay everyone. It's weird, right? It's in the hours of... Wealthy, absolute clientele, and then everybody's paid $14. Everybody's completely underpaid. Anyways, I'm not going to shit on that space, although I kind of want to. The point is, is my daughter is continuing to be in these positions where she comes up against the kinds of leadership that I think she is out of sorts for her. She either doesn't align with it. She's witnessed or experienced leadership that has looked different. She doesn't respect it.

4:13 And it can be a challenge. Let's put it that way. Anyway, she was going through one of those situations. And it was basically the way that she's being spoken to The way that that particular owner and key leader lives out some of the practices of the business and some of the principles of the business, long story short, doesn't feel good. Yeah. Okay. And so I'm listening to my daughter interpret, I'm using that word on purpose, her experience with this individual. What was said, what the behaviors were. And then she's, for all intents and purposes, she's telling me her version of the story. Yeah. And because I know my daughter so well, because I care about her so deeply, I just see her actions and her behaviors a little bit differently than she does, just like we all have people in our lives that are capable of kind of seeing these experiences through different lengths.

5:08 They see it clearly. If we're honest, they see it more clearly. Yeah. And as I'm listening to my daughter retell the story... I can't help but think. And again, it's like if she were to listen to this episode, I want to make sure I'm really clear here. I'm not devaluing what she experienced. Yeah. She had an emotional and mental interpretation of an interaction with another human being. An experience. An experience. Yeah. I'm not taking away from that. It made her feel a certain way. And then when she told that story to her mom and I, she's interpreting that story through the lens of how she experienced it. Yeah. And the reality of it is, is that what she experienced still may not be the truth.

5:53 Yeah. There's a lot of truth in it. It may or may not have been presented well. There may actually be some real failure in behavior on the leader's part. Yeah. I'm not questioning that. Yeah. And I do know also, though, that my daughter received it a certain way through her own lenses, her own baggage, her own life experience. She interpreted that interaction. And when she went to tell somebody else the story, her voice, her body behavior is interpreting that story to match what she experienced. Okay? It's kind of a complicated... I'm with you. I'm with you. Keep going. So what it caused me to do, some people listening to this show know this and many don't.

6:35 I had a previous experience in my career that there was a breakdown in relationship as well. And the interpretation of that relational breakdown was... Produced fruit. Okay? I'm not super excited about all the experience that I have. However, when I'm sitting here and listening to my daughter tell this story, and I know from my experience, again, because I love her so much, because I know that she's got a lot to her personality. I just see things she doesn't, blah, blah, blah. I know that there is some interpreting that she's doing when she receives this message that is not necessarily married up to the facts. Okay? And all of a sudden, I got blindsided with this emotional response of, oh, fuck.

7:15 How much of that happened in my personal experience? That where a breakdown in a professional relationship caused an outcome that I still have pain from. I'm not excited about what happened. To me, I still mourn what could have been. Yeah. Right? Right. And though, I'm realizing this as I'm monitoring the behavior of my kids, as I'm listening, because I want to coach them, because I want them to be awesome. I want them to experience life through facts and truth, not just emotional response. I realized, holy shit, I think I did some of this. Like I had a part to play in the breakdown in this relationship because I undoubtedly was receiving messages.

8:00 And again, just like my daughter's situation, those messages may not have been sent the best way. There may have been some very significant failure on the part of the other individual. And not maybe, there was. Just like there was failure on my part. But man, I interpreted that information a certain way because of my own baggage, my own perceptions, my own connectedness to the relationship. I received that information and my system interpreted it. And then that interpretation began to have an effect on the way that I thought about that relationship, the way I thought about the business, the way that I felt about my place and my role. And it's just interesting now looking back and going, wow, how much of that interpretation then did I leverage, whether it be conscious or subconscious, into behaviors that ultimately help break that relationship down?

8:50 Because, and the reason I say that specifically is part of my advice to my daughter was... Hey, you on paper don't look like you even warrant this level of position. Although I believe in you, I know you're capable of it. On paper, you don't. Don't allow this to be a self-fulfilling prophecy where you have to hit reset and start all over again. Do your time in this position and earn your stripes so that that paper validates what we already know about you. So that you can make a move into the kind of role or position or company that actually makes you happy. So now I'm listening to my own advice. And I'm going, oh my gosh, what did I do potentially in this situation?

9:31 Yeah. Because of the way I interpret it. Again, there's blame on the other party's part. No doubt about it. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So this is, I mean, this thing was just sitting on me, man. And I'm going, and I don't mean this all heavy and dark. And it's just, wow. Like, it was an eye-opener for me of just thinking about our people, thinking about the decisions that I make and going, wow, how many times do I begin to live out a story? Yeah. Because of a misinterpretation. Yeah. And again, I don't want people to hear me taking responsibility of the other participant. Because that's not what I'm saying. But I can't own them. I can't change them. I don't own their behavior. I can't change them, but I can mine.

10:15 All right, Head, Heart & Boots listeners. Want to stop here just a moment and thank our underwriting sponsor, Bloodlight Consulting Group. As all of you know, right? You know, Brandon and I, this is our passion project, Head Heart and Boots is. But it's also a way more and more that our consulting clients find us. And in effect, they interview us, right? Those of you who've been listening to the show for a while, you get to know who we are, right? What we're about. So if Head Heart and Boots is valuable to you, one of the best things you can do is share it with your friends. And it's been incredible to watch just the audience grow. And we still get text messages from many of you about shows that you really like and impacted you. So that's number one. And please keep doing that.

10:55 Many of you have been huge advocates of the show. We also just want to remind you too, if you're a restoration company owner and you're interested in a partner in your growth, you want some help building out systems, developing your leadership teams, helping set up the infrastructure for you to scale and grow into the company that you're trying to build. That's what we do. That's what we do is we come alongside restoration company leaders and, We help equip them and we help support them in that growth trajectory. So if you're looking for that, go to floodlightgrp.com. Potentially, we could be a great match for each other. Another way that we really do serve our client base and our sphere of influence is through our premier partners. We work really hard to vet those folks that we believe bring a level of value to the industry, that it can really be leveraged in a way to have a sincere, positive impact on your business.

11:43 We take that very seriously. The folks that we create those kind of ongoing partnerships, that's not a check-the-box kind of scenario. It's we really see strategic alignment in the value that they bring. We see value in the way that their leadership teams and their partners are developed. And we've done very sincere work of ensuring that these folks that we introduce our clients and our sphere to can actually create vetted value. So go check out floodlightgrp.com forward slash premier slash partners and see if there's some folks on there that you can connect with and begin developing some other resources to support your growth and your business. I guess what I'm also hearing you say is there's a humility that I feel like you're talking about where you're saying to yourself, boy, I see my daughter doing this.

12:31 Her ego causes her to filter that experience in a certain way. And likewise, there may have been some ways that your ego was protecting itself, was creating supportive stories. That's right. That justified maybe how you felt about certain things. Yeah. Right? Yep. And also, you know, I think the other thing too, like this makes me think of my time, to be honest, in the insurance business. I used to own a state farm agency and I ultimately decided to leave the business and I kind of I left a very successful business. And when I look at it in hindsight, I was in my 20s. I was a totally different person back then.

13:12 Oh, yeah. But I got really frustrated with some of the boundaries and controls of corporate. Yeah. I felt like I didn't really own the business. I was like an underling, you know? I felt like I was an employee and it was just like... But that was a story. Yeah. Like in hindsight, like at the time, that was my justification for getting out. Yeah. Is this ain't my own business. This is their business. And I have the privilege of having a state farm agency. And I'm like, screw that. You know, I don't... This is not how I want to live my life, you know? Yeah. And I just, I remember, well, it's only been really in the last several years, to be honest, that I've started to look at that.

13:56 That was 12 years ago, 13 years ago, that I've started to rethink even my attitudes about what that was and what the real problem was. Yeah. And I think for me, I've just had to realize that for me, there was a lot of immaturity. An inability for me to look past the minutia of some of the requirements and some of the process and procedure that State Farm had that was annoying and frustrating and felt confining to me. Yeah. There was an inability at the time for me to see the bigger picture. Yeah. Yeah. And I really stoked the breakdown of that relationship because of my immaturity, my demand that State Farm see it my way.

14:45 Yeah. And at the time, I had this whole... My ego had this whole justification. I was... In some ways, I was the same guy that I am today. I really love innovating. I love coming up with new ideas. I'm a kind of real creative person. And in a franchise system, which State Farm isn't technically a franchise system, but operates very similarly, State Farm could give a rip what my great ideas were. They had a system that they expected me to work in. And I never could change my orientation to how do I apply my creativity within the existing system? Because I'm not going to change $100 billion in retained earnings State Farm.

15:27 It is not ever going to happen. and the immaturity of me back in the day and just how much I fed that. Yeah. And in hindsight, it's like when I was in it, all I could see was just opposition. I'm like, do they realize how good I'm like, how can they not acknowledge how good I'm doing as an agent? I'm fricking producing left and right. And I'm producing using some of these creative approaches, community marketing and all this kind of stuff that a lot of it was to be drawn outside the lines and all these justifications for why I should be able to just do all these creative ideas. And every single time State Farm was slapping my hand and being like, stay in your lane, bro.

16:08 And I just couldn't see anything but State Farm trying to control me. State Farm trying to control my business. Meanwhile, I'm like, my friend Jim Kuhlman. If you're listening, Jim, you are... I love you. Jim was my mentor. And Jim was like, whatever. Like his attitude was, all right, just play by State Farm's rules, work the system, and then go have fun. Go do your creativity somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Build the business up to where you have the money to go buy other businesses, go start other companies that you have total creative latitude to run the company, build it, scale it however you want to.

16:49 And in the moment, my maturity just... Yeah, you were stuck. I was just stuck. Yeah. It was just a total ego hook. It's interesting because I feel like... Obviously, this is super relevant to us as individuals. It's super relevant to anybody listening. And though I think of so many of our people... Because look, dude, let's be totally open here. We had some real significant personnel failures this last year. Boy, yeah. Jeez. And as much as we teach and work on and love culture and commit to culture and leadership development, all the things, we're humans and we're not perfect. And sometimes you and I send a missed signal and our people are just as susceptible as we are to a misinterpretation of that signal, which then in turn causes them to act in such a way that ultimately put us into a position where there wasn't a lot of going back.

17:38 I think even more so because of the power differential, you know, which I think we forget about. I forget about sometimes is... I think we do have a greater burden of clarity than our people do. Oh, I agree. You know, I mean, that's just part of the burden of command and leadership and whatever. And I'm with you, dude. Yes. Or personal accountability. Like I think to myself in my past situations, like I'm not removing the blame or the part they played. Yeah. But I also can't, do anything about that. So it doesn't really... What am I going to invest a ton of energy and emotional content to when I can't... It doesn't affect change in me or anything.

18:19 Anyways, I think our people like us... And I'm not saying our people as segregated from us. I just mean us as individuals, whether you're the owner or for the vast majority, you're one of the individuals in the organization that... we can so quickly interpret what is said to us, how it's said, how it's communicated. And again, we have to remember that is tainted by and colored by our previous experience, our parental relationships, the whole file folder piece. Yeah. And then what is our response? What is happening when we respond to that slight or the way that we interpreted that conversation?

18:59 Again, it might have been delivered super shitty. Yeah. But what are you doing with it? Does it become this thing where now it's fueling your separation from the commitment to the company? Is it fueling a separation or discontent with your relationship to the organization and its bigger mission and how you work and serve inside it? Yeah. That's where we get stuck. And I think ultimately it allows us to completely spin out and then become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like I, if I look at my situation, I believe there were moments where I began to behave in such a way that only sped up the problem. Yeah. Like it didn't do anything to help create clarity or slow the bus down long enough to go, fuck, man.

19:41 Like maybe you and I need to get off this bus. It's not going the direction we want it to. You know what I mean? But my commitment to my story. Yeah. My commitment to my perspective. Yes. Of what I believe is going on here. Yeah. It was me against State Farm. Yeah. It was like... It's so funny because I still am like acquaintances or friends with Monica, who was my field leader at the time. I mean, she went to bat for me. She liked me. She believed in me. She saw all the good that I was doing and the good motivation. Yeah. And she tried so many times. She saw the intent. She knew my intent was pure. She knew I was a good actor, that I wasn't a bad apple, and all those things.

20:24 Yeah. Because she was up close and personal. I was one of her head agents or something that she was working with. Yeah. And she was trying to coach. She's like, Chris, trust me. State Farm is not going to move on this. Yeah. Like, is there a different way you can look at this? Yeah. Like, she's like, I get it. Yeah. She was so good. She's such a good person. But I could not step out of my story. I couldn't step out of my perspective in that. I think there were so many things going on. We talked about that whole thing of the file folders. Yeah. And we all have these woundings and these experiences that... somebody says something to us and it triggers like a reference to that thing that happened years ago in a lot of cases.

21:09 And that's... It was totally triggering that in me. You're not everything you're cracked up to be, Nordike. Yeah. State Farm could give a shit. how many life policies you wrote, how many new households you brought in this last week, rules are rules. Nordike, you ain't worth us making an exception to the rules. Like that's all I could hear. Yeah. Yeah. And it had nothing to do with State Farm. That's right. You know, it had to do was the Vin Diesel experience that I had. Right. Three or four years prior. Yep. You know, it had everything to do with other kind of childhood experiences that kind of fed that thing of... needing to impress people. And then I was in this moment at State Farm where I thought I was impressing everybody.

21:51 And then the State Farm, I'm talking about as like a person. But the people, these overlords at State Farm were like, yeah, we don't give a shit. Yeah. Like there's 17,800 other agents and many of them that are high performers like you what makes you think you're going to be the exception to, you know, like they were basically saying, yeah, you're, you're not special, Dordyke. Yeah. And that hooked. Oh yeah. That thing is for you especially. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah. I think that's the interesting thing about kind of the story in general. I think about my daughter and I think, you know, I, I know some of the stories in her past that she leans into when she's interpreting the way people are talking to her and rightfully so.

22:34 Like, you know, We've had these legitimately, you know, legitimate things that have happened that shape that response. And again, she's, I think there's times where it may not be a lot of percentage, but there's a specific percentage where she's lumping how she's hearing something into, oh, that reminds, that's just like X. This is what they're doing, how they're acting, how they're responding, blah, blah, blah. And I just think ultimately it's a disjustice for us in terms of what we can accomplish and can't accomplish. I just think we miss the opportunity. If we can't dig into that, if we can't wrestle with it, I think it's going to be ultimately a real limiter to us in terms of what we can accomplish and what we're able to do in our careers and our businesses or whatever the case may be.

23:19 One of the things this brings to mind for me is... I'm learning. I have to be careful what I'm certain about. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like that, to me, that's what this conversation points to in me. It's funny. I had this conversation with my youngest boy this morning. He was playing a piece of music on the piano. He's a piano player. and I'm a piano player, and he was asking me what key this particular song was in. And I'm like, well, it's F sharp and C sharp, or, you know, the sharps there. He's like, no, dad, I think that's an A sharp and a B sharp. And I'm like, dude, I'm pretty sure...

24:03 I walked over and I checked the piece of sheet music. And he's like, no, dad, really? So I walked back over to him and I pointed at this particular song. Only music people will actually get this analogy, right? But so I apologize. But some pieces of music have two treble clefs instead of a treble and a bass clef. And this was what my boy was hung up on. Because he's new, he's young, he's been playing for a few years, but he hadn't seen a lot of this music. And I'm like, dude, do you see how there's two treble clefs? That's why it looks like an A sharp and B sharp, I said. But it absolutely is F sharp and C sharp. He's like, oh. Like, dude, be careful what you're certain about, bro.

24:44 Because that, like, I catch myself feeling really gosh damn certain about things pretty often. Yeah. That I know what's going on here. I know why the person said or did that thing. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I know why they didn't, you know, reply back. And then, of course, you find out 99 times out of 100 that the story is at least a little bit different. than what you were so certain about. Yeah. Yeah. Right? I think that's a great analogy to be connected with. There was that one variable... Yep. ...that he didn't have context with. Didn't have a bunch of experience with.

25:26 Right? And it changed the outcome of the entire thing. Entirely. How often are we in those situations where there's a minute detail or variable... we don't have context for... Playing into this situation that we're finding. We don't understand it. We're not aware of, never been exposed to it. Changes everything about the relationship, the outcome, the strategy. Yeah. And I think what's interesting when we talk about some of this kind of stuff is... You can slide into what we're not supposed to be confident or feel a foundational truth to anything. No, no. Our life experiences are valid and they do shape things. And gut instinct and these things like serious entrepreneurs and leaders that we have that listen to our show...

26:11 No, your street cred comes from your experience. It's valid. But just remember, we always have something we could be learning. We always have something, a different tact, a different variable. We could understand the context of every situation a little bit better. And it may change the tools, the strategies. We do more power. I have a thought. This might be a good summary thought. I think we've fallen into, most of us, including myself, we fall into the trap where we allow our experience to guide our decisions rather than using our experience to ask better questions. Oh, man.

26:52 Say that again. I think most of us fall into the trap of, oh, I've been here, done this, seen this, heard this. Therefore, I know what to do. I know how to react. Rather than considering based on what I have seen, what I have heard, what I have known, what questions can I ask to get deeper clarity about the situation? That is powerful, dude. Right? I'm not trying to be cheesy. If you're listening to this. Okay, I'm going to say it a slightly different way. This is what I heard you say. Instead of leveraging our previous experiences, our street cred, our earned stripes, to be certain we know it, use that same experience, that superpower, that valid time and grade, and leverage that to ask better questions.

27:46 Yeah. That is fucking awesome. Oh man, we double into these things sometimes, don't we? That's a really cool way to put that. And the reason I like it so much, man, is because I think when we start to force ourselves to ask harder questions about what we're interpreting, what we're experiencing, what we're seeing, I think what happens is it creates this element of uncertainty, this element of mistrust, this element of, well, I'm not validating my previous experiences. And that makes it very difficult for somebody to walk into that position. Because I don't want to do that. I don't want to throw away everything I've lived up till now. But I think what you just helped us do is just reshape that energy.

28:28 Let's still use it. But let's use it in a way that actually enhances us. That makes us more powerful, more capable, more successful. We're not ignoring it. We're not devaluing it. We're leveraging it differently. Man, that was... I don't know about anybody listening, but maybe that was helpful. Well, it gives me something. I'm thinking about it and I'm like, God, how often I do this so much with my kids, bro. Oh, it's just such a part of me. I feel as though, oh, I know this. I've seen this. I've done this. I've read this. I've heard this. It almost always leads me sideways in some fashion.

29:09 Yeah. Not because my instincts were wrong, but they were incomplete. Yeah. There's a high risk of arrogance. Yeah. And we don't even see it usually until after something breaks down, right? I dig it. Okay, one more time, dude. Say it one more time so we can get out of here. I think rather than using our experience and our time and grade and our background and our success to inform our decision making, meaning, oh, I know what to do. I've seen this, heard this, done this a thousand times. Instead, leveraging that experience and background and success and failure, of course, to form better questions. To gain deeper clarity about the new situations that we encounter.

29:51 Because they're always different. I love that, dude. I love it. With every iteration, we become stronger when we ask better questions. Oh, 100%. Fucking dig it. Okay, guys. We'll see you later. Okay. All right, everybody. Hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart & Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.